Mr Joe Bloggs...

[cassieohpia]

Or maybe John Doe?

Anyway...he is a cis man who is straight, never cross dressed, is happily married. Good at football. He puts shelves up. Knows how to fix a carburettor or retune fuel injection. Drinks only beer.  Ok?

Scenario a:
He is given e. He doesn't know...What happens to him?  Does he feel beautifully in touch with himself and who he is? Does he happily cry?  Does he love to chat now?
OR does he start to feel 'wrong'? Does he feel lethargic and low? Does he have other horrible feeling symptoms that make him question himself?

Scenario b:
He is given t blockers. He doesn't know...pretty much the same other questions.

Scenario c:
He is surreptitiously given t blockers for two months or so. Maybe there are physical changes that he puts down to being a bit under the weather. But then...he is given e, again surreptitiously. What now with those questions?

Forgive me if this is a terribly put together thought scenario. It's in response to a pm from b which was much appreciated! ANY responses, to the post or pm's, will be really valued.

I'm not suggesting anything without medical supervision btw and have been talking to a gender therapist for a year.

[Devlyn]

I must not be getting this, but I'll say one thing.Talking about giving someone life changing hormones without their knowledge would just be sick. And like it or not, you are talking about someone recieving hormones without a doctor's care.

[cassieohpia]

Lol.
No you're not getting it.
It's not anybody. It's a fiction.
X

[Devlyn]

Good luck.

[ImagineKate]

If I were given any medication of any kind without my consent I would be extremely upset.

[Devlyn]

I'm not sure a fictional account of someone recieving unethical medical treatment belongs in the HRT section. People come here for information.

[JustASeq]

Or maybe John Doe?

Anyway...he is a cis man who is straight, never cross dressed, is happily married. Good at football. He puts shelves up. Knows how to fix a carburettor or retune fuel injection. Drinks only beer.  Ok?

I'm a queer transwoman. I'm good at football (and other sports), super handy, can work on a car and definitely drink lots of beer. And none of that will ever change which is great!

But, to answer your questions of the unethical treatment of a human being.
A. The E doesn't do much against the T, so he doesn't notice changes much if at all.
B. He loses the ability to get an erection and is very upset. Everything else goes unnoticed until he starts growing breasts, which also bothers him.
C. Same as B, but his breasts grow faster.

I think it would be like he experienced medically induced body dysphoria.

[suzifrommd]

I would imagine Mr. Bloggs would be profoundly uncomfortable with the physical changes in his body - especially breast development. He wouldn't be too happy with soft skin either.

As for emotional changes, hard to say. The changes on E are subtle. I loved them, but don't know if other people would.

[cassieohpia]

I'm a queer transwoman. I'm good at football (and other sports), super handy, can work on a car and definitely drink lots of beer. And none of that will ever change which is great!

But, to answer your questions of the unethical treatment of a human being.
A. The E doesn't do much against the T, so he doesn't notice changes much if at all.
B. He loses the ability to get an erection and is very upset. Everything else goes unnoticed until he starts growing breasts, which also bothers him.
C. Same as B, but his breasts grow faster.

I think it would be like he experienced medically induced body dysphoria.

Thanks Justaseq.

There isn't a real person here as I'm describing. There is NO suggestion of giving any drugs to a real person without their permission. I was trying to find information on using hrt as a confirming diagnostic tool. I've read so many accounts of how hrt has 'fixed' dysphoria. I've also read about people who've stopped hrt for the physical changes that made passing in male mode difficult. I totally get my fictional man (I made up the cliches about him to, with tongue in cheek, place him as far up the cis/ trans spectrum as possible) would experience body dysphoria as physical changes occurred. Would he also develop the psychological dysphoria, pre physical changes, as well? This is, I suppose, what I was trying to get at. Would this poor hapless chap start feeling wrong, lethargic, angry, down etc even before the physical changes kicked in?


I apologise if my style if question is confusing. I'd read what was termed a 'thought experiment' about being on a desert island, alone for ever, with a button that, if pressed, would change your gender forever and perfectly. Would you press it? (Yes btw). I created a fictional scenario of my own to ask a question based on others real experience, knowledge or understanding. I did that because I like to think in pictures and because the island experiment helped me. In a small way.

I imagine it would have become useless if I'd questioned instead the ethics of placing an electrical device, and the button, on an unspoiled area of natural beauty.

Would still appreciate thoughts and experience beyond the unethical scenario, around this question.

[Randi]

Some men with prostate cancer are either castrated or given estrogen as part of their treatment.

From what I hear they really don't like any of that, but it is better than dying.

I think estrogen would cause very unpleasant feelings in a cis-man.

Here's an article by someone with some first-hand experience:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/my-brief-life-as-a-woman/

Randi

[KayXo]

Also, post-castration, some men are given anti-androgens like bicalutamide and even finasteride.