"Transtrenders" and being called a transphobe LOL

[BearGuy]

Hey everyone! Haven't been here in a while after my depressing breakup. I'm back officially now!

So. Was in a heated conversation with a gay cismale friend of mine. We both go to this youth center where it's the norm to ask your "PGPs" (preferred gender pronouns). When asked, nearly 90% of the people there say "it doesn't matter, call me anything respectful! He or she or they!". This angers me, because the lgbt community itself is discrediting trans people! They are saying it is normal to be trans, because gender is a social construct. You'll see the same concept on tumblr and elsewhere. This is like a slap in the face. I've battled all my childhood feeling, thinking, living as a boy in a semi-female body (I developed some male traits during puberty), just to be told that anyone can feel like this because gender is made up.

So...conversion with this guy stemmed from me calling this girl a she. She wears dresses, makeup, speaks like a girl...my friend said "they are trans. They are both female and male depending on the day". Okay...what in the world?! That is not trans! That is just gender variant having nothing to do with any medical issue. That is simply gender expression. You can dress however you want, act however you want...call yourself whatever...but you are not transsexual. Trans means your sex does not match your brain/there is a discrepancy between the structure of your brain and your physical sex. It's not psychological; it is more physiological since research has shown transsexualism may result from hormonal and chromosomal influence. A number of trans folk are intersex or have intersex characteristics.

He went on to call me a transphobe because I don't "accept" this person. Hey, I actually am very attracted to her. I just don't agree that she is trans. She is comfortable in her female body, no problems. She just likes the trend of being called trans. By trying to fit in and accept the rest of the trans crowd, people like this are discrediting actual transmen and transwomen.

Finally, I have an acquaintance who is the same exact way, but goes a step further. Fully female, feminine, but calls herself they...and a "gay fa***t". She plans to take testosterone for a few months to look in the middle. *facepalm*

When will people understand that we aren't changing our genders, we are fixing our sexual characteristics???
I've had it with these trenders...They are giving us the wrong image.

[CursedFireDean]

I'm sorry man but I think you do need to lighten up a little. I'll agree that there are people out there who are using trans wrong and are not taking things like medical transition seriously enough. But non-binary identities are perfectly valid. Genderfluid is a valid identity, as are genderqueer, agender, and a whole list of other genders. If these people have a preference (or lack of) for pronouns, you need to accept it. You need to respect people and their identities if you want them to respect yours. I don't understand those identities well either but I respect that these people know themselves better than I do. For example, genderfluid sounds like one of those people, and it is STILL a gender identity. It's not an expression, it is an identity. Does that mean they are just as in need of medical intervention as transgender men and women? No. Not necessarily. But does that identity still warrant your respect? Yes.

Granted, I do understand your point. Many people are not treating hormones as they should, and think they can become androgynous from them. Hormones are definitely a treatment for dysphoria, and if you don't experience dysphoria (this can be physical AND/OR social dysphoria) then hormones aren't really necessary. Transgender encompasses both an identity and a medical condition, and it is frustrating when people ignore the severity of the medical condition. It can seem like people are minimizing the medical necessity of transition for some people. Hormones really are taken too lightly in some circles of non-binary people.

You need to respect their identities, but try to educate them on why medical transition shouldn't be taken so lightly. For example, ask what changes they expect from testosterone and inform them whether or not T can actually accomplish that. Like, will they desire changes that go away when T is stopped, do they dislike the permanent changes?

I also feel I should note that the meaning of "trans" has evolved even in just the few years I've been involved in the community. From what I've seen, "Trans" used to mean people who had surgeries. Then it meant transgender as an umbrella for anyone transitioning. And now it involves all gender-variant identities, regardless of necessity of medical intervention.

[adrian]

There's no right or wrong way to be trans*.

If someone is gender fluid and they define themselves as trans*, they are.

If someone defines themselves as non-binary and as trans*, they are.

[AlexW]

So...what you're saying is that this person's gender identity and presentation doesn't match what you consider to be trans, or masculine enough to be trans, so you disbelieve their identity?

The way I read your description of this person, (if you consider the genderfluid identity as invalid, which I don't think you should) they could very well be a trans person in denial because of wildly swinging dysphoria, even if you discount what you consider to be not trans, ie gender variance, which can only be done if you are very strictly on the gender binary. A lot of people agree that gender is more of a spectrum than a binary, though I understand that it is not how you see it at all.

Personally, while absolutely considering my dysphoria as a sign of a medical problem, I am not comfortable policing other people's identities, just because they do not match up to my own experiences. I have no idea if people really can, with a physiological basis, change places on the gender spectrum, only  that I know that I can't. Perhaps a very androgynous brain chemistry/build? I don't know. They could be intersex, for all you know.

What I do know is that deliberately misgendering someone seems cruel, especially if you already know what they identify as. Whether or not you agree with their identity is irrelevant, just as I am sure you've met people that do not agree with your own identity and have disregarded these. Respect peoples pronouns, even if you privately disagree.

Also, whether you find them attractive is irrelevant to whether you accept them or respect them.

[V M]

Hey everyone! Haven't been here in a while after my depressing breakup. I'm back officially now!

So. Was in a heated conversation with a gay cismale friend of mine. We both go to this youth center where it's the norm to ask your "PGPs" (preferred gender pronouns). When asked, nearly 90% of the people there say "it doesn't matter, call me anything respectful! He or she or they!". This angers me, because the lgbt community itself is discrediting trans people! They are saying it is normal to be trans, because gender is a social construct. You'll see the same concept on tumblr and elsewhere. This is like a slap in the face. I've battled all my childhood feeling, thinking, living as a boy in a semi-female body (I developed some male traits during puberty), just to be told that anyone can feel like this because gender is made up.

So...conversion with this guy stemmed from me calling this girl a she. She wears dresses, makeup, speaks like a girl...my friend said "they are trans. They are both female and male depending on the day". Okay...what in the world?! That is not trans! That is just gender variant having nothing to do with any medical issue. That is simply gender expression. You can dress however you want, act however you want...call yourself whatever...but you are not transsexual. Trans means your sex does not match your brain/there is a discrepancy between the structure of your brain and your physical sex. It's not psychological; it is more physiological since research has shown transsexualism may result from hormonal and chromosomal influence. A number of trans folk are intersex or have intersex characteristics.

He went on to call me a transphobe because I don't "accept" this person. Hey, I actually am very attracted to her. I just don't agree that she is trans. She is comfortable in her female body, no problems. She just likes the trend of being called trans. By trying to fit in and accept the rest of the trans crowd, people like this are discrediting actual transmen and transwomen.

Finally, I have an acquaintance who is the same exact way, but goes a step further. Fully female, feminine, but calls herself they...and a "gay fa***t". She plans to take testosterone for a few months to look in the middle. *facepalm*

When will people understand that we aren't changing our genders, we are fixing our sexual characteristics???
I've had it with these trenders...They are giving us the wrong image.

Hi BearGuy

Yeah, you do need to lighten up a bit and you need to read the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive whatever the provocation.

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