Do we all have clitoris/penis?

[symempathy]

Heh, well there's nothing stopping an anatomically female person having metoidioplasty (or just a clitoral release) and keeping the vagina.

Guess there's no reason why an anatomically male person couldn't have colon section vaginoplasty without losing their penis either...

Can a surgeon construct a vagina opening using only scrotal skin? I mean the penis is still intact, and the urethra isn't changed. Is it possible to do that?

[AbraCadabra]

No, not really because there would result very little depth, maybe ~2".
Not enough depth for normal penetration intercourse.

Neo-vaginas can not really stretch in depth as natal ones do i.e. extend to 2x normal depth of ~ 4" to some 8" IF... aroused AND so required, um.

If that was no issue why have a vaginal channel at all?

Axelle

[symempathy]

No, not really because there would result very little depth, maybe ~2".
Not enough depth for normal penetration intercourse.

Neo-vaginas can not really stretch in depth as natal ones do i.e. extend to 2x normal depth of ~ 4" to some 8" IF... aroused AND so required, um.

If that was no issue why have a vaginal channel at all?

Axelle

Can you please elaborate a little more? ARe you saying that if I intend to keep my penis with its covering skin, I won't have enough skin to construct a good depth vagina?

Is the skin or the erectile tissue of the penis issue here?

[AbraCadabra]

* Can you please elaborate a little more? [1] ARe you saying that if I intend to keep my penis with its covering skin, I won't have enough skin to construct a good depth vagina?

[2] Is the skin or the erectile tissue of the penis issue here? *

Ok, let me try to make this coherent.

1. Yes, exactly what I am saying.
Not enough material there will be. There are some tricks, to perforate the scrotal skin to enable to stretch it some (like 'stretch metal', if that means something) but it still will not do on its own.
Using penile AND scrotal graft skin (none perforated) my SRS Doc only 'suggests' 4"– 5" depth. That's conservative, yet depending how large you are, more could be a bonus.
Now, if your scrotum be half way down your thighs it might make a difference --- but who has?

2. Erectile tissue (inside blood vessels of the penis) will be removed well into the vaginal channel during SRS. Lest when being aroused it get engorged and block the vaginal entrance for penetration.
Almost like 'vaginismus' but caused not by a PC muscle spasm, rather by to much erectile tissue left at the entrance.

Is that tissue and issue? Absolutely, as outlined above it'd be blocking the vaginal channel if engorged and left in place for a functioning penis.

The erectile tissue (girth) of a normal clit is a fraction of that of a normal size penis. Yet a clit also goes well inside, and is ~ 14cm in total length, most people find that difficult to take on.

Axelle

[Amazon D]

I met a MTF who is a Dr and was able to talk her surgeon into moving her testes to a location internally. I would think she is not really a female totally because she has her testes with all that testosterone still running thru her body. but thats just me.


Modified SRS - There is also at least one transsexual woman who has undergone a modified SRS in order to keep her testicles (albeit internally). More information on this procedure is available on Anne Lawrence's web site.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yKHrY31Jd5AJ:www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/surgeryTS.htm+transsexual+has+sexchange+keeps+her+testes&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Rebekah with a K-A-H]

I met a MTF who is a Dr and was able to talk her surgeon into moving her testes to a location internally. I would think she is not really a female totally because she has her testes with all that testosterone still running thru her body. but thats just me.


Modified SRS - There is also at least one transsexual woman who has undergone a modified SRS in order to keep her testicles (albeit internally). More information on this procedure is available on Anne Lawrence's web site.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yKHrY31Jd5AJ:www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/surgeryTS.htm+transsexual+has+sexchange+keeps+her+testes&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I'm skeptical.  Part of the reason internal testes are removed in androgen-insensitive women when they are diagnosed is because of the risk of testicular cancer which cannot be assessed because of their location.

[~RoadToTrista~]

Oh wow I would do that. I remember that thread that talked about how removing Dmrt1 in testes would turn them into ovaries.

[AbraCadabra]

Maybe I should hang ten with my SRS, and do the 'mouse' thing...

If anything goes wrong this time, there be some hope your the next generation SRS.
Another wetware development?

Axelle

[AmySmiles]

I am thinking about waiting a couple years to have my surgery too, depending on certain developments.  I don't think I could bear to wait more than 3 though, especially if these developments are not guaranteed.

In particular, these two are intriguing:
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/07/21/Researchers_Discover_Sex_Change_Gene/
http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=2133

[~RoadToTrista~]

Damn I already wasn't going to get the surgery for years. Looks like there's some advancements to look forward to. ^.^

[symempathy]

* Can you please elaborate a little more? [1] ARe you saying that if I intend to keep my penis with its covering skin, I won't have enough skin to construct a good depth vagina?

[2] Is the skin or the erectile tissue of the penis issue here? *

Ok, let me try to make this coherent.

1. Yes, exactly what I am saying.
Not enough material there will be. There are some tricks, to perforate the scrotal skin to enable to stretch it some (like 'stretch metal', if that means something) but it still will not do on its own.
Using penile AND scrotal graft skin (none perforated) my SRS Doc only 'suggests' 4"– 5" depth. That's conservative, yet depending how large you are, more could be a bonus.
Now, if your scrotum be half way down your thighs it might make a difference --- but who has?

2. Erectile tissue (inside blood vessels of the penis) will be removed well into the vaginal channel during SRS. Lest when being aroused it get engorged and block the vaginal entrance for penetration.
Almost like 'vaginismus' but caused not by a PC muscle spasm, rather by to much erectile tissue left at the entrance.

Is that tissue and issue? Absolutely, as outlined above it'd be blocking the vaginal channel if engorged and left in place for a functioning penis.

The erectile tissue (girth) of a normal clit is a fraction of that of a normal size penis. Yet a clit also goes well inside, and is ~ 14cm in total length, most people find that difficult to take on.

Axelle

Thank you very much, Axelle

I hear that some surgeons use donor skins from other areas such as the thigh or abdomen to provide more material. Can that be enough to construct a reasonable depth for the vagina?

During the surgery, my testicles will be removed, so like in the case of prostate cancer patients, it will be very difficult for my penis to erect, won't it? And if it does erect, it won't stay for long.

[Amazon D]

I'm skeptical.  Part of the reason internal testes are removed in androgen-insensitive women when they are diagnosed is because of the risk of testicular cancer which cannot be assessed because of their location.

She didn't have them internally from birth. She had them MOVED too INTERNALLY during her GRS surgery to preserve her male sex drive and male orgasm..

[symempathy]

She didn't have them internally from birth. She had them MOVED too INTERNALLY during her GRS surgery to preserve her male sex drive and male orgasm..

Won't that counter the effect of estrogen?

[Kentrie]

Ugh, this reminds me of how close I was of developing as a male. All that was needed was Testosterone.

[noeleena]

Hi,

If a male say . does not have enough skin for full depth makes little difference because skin from an other part of your body can be used.

Check up on us who are intersexed you may change your minds & in some case's =   do we all have a clitotis / penis . =  no. & for some not a lot,   if  any   its called a malfunction or deformed . or not at all. what ever it can be different.

& in some case's it's a wonder they lived & some have surgery as soon as they are born. other wise no pee weeing & or other details, rather messy .

...noeleena...

[V M]

Even before transitioning I thought of my penis as an enlarged clitoris

[Amazon D]

Damn   all these threads on having BOTH or WANTING BOTH  made me dream last night i had both..  damn it was wild... it was like my old penis went thru the skin and was like a extra long FTM penis without the sheeth or urethra. I was rather large pre surgery and well it was very very long and pointy at the tip.   i have to stop coming to this site and reading all these HAVING BOTH threads 

[VeryGnawty]

Damn   all these threads on having BOTH or WANTING BOTH  made me dream last night i had both..

Yeah.  You can tell you are too involved in something when you start dreaming about it.  You can tell that I watch way too much Star Trek because yesterday I had a dream where the Cardassians and the Borg were conspiring to overthrow the alternate universe.

[mm]

Back to the originial question, how is the surgeon going to put a vagina in with the urethra still in the normal male position.  Also there is penis tissue that extends back inside the body where the vagina would need to go through.  The surgeon can get skin from several different areas to make the lining for the new vagina.

[symempathy]

Back to the originial question, how is the surgeon going to put a vagina in with the urethra still in the normal male position.  Also there is penis tissue that extends back inside the body where the vagina would need to go through.  The surgeon can get skin from several different areas to make the lining for the new vagina.

Are you saying that virtually it is impossible to have both even though a person has abundant scrotal skin?
How the male urethra is and the presence of erectile tissue will block the vaginal canal, won't it?

If that is the reason a penis and vagina can't both present at the same time, the clitoris in a female doesn't have much erectile tissue like the penis, does it?

I remember seeing a FTM porn star's picture who has an enlarged clitoris that resembles a male penis in resting state. His name is Buck Angel. His vaginal orifice is still there.

In metoidioplasty, the urethra is rerouted into the enlarged clitoris, so the FTM person can urinate like a natal male does. I wonder if a natal male can have both features like a FTM.