Id like some perspective on this

[cisgirl]

First off I am a CIS female. I have always felt I look androgynous and that people can either see me as a regular girl and dont think twice but others see me and arent sure if thats true. Ive even had a homeless woman tell me the Dr should check me inside because im not really a girl. Anyways one thing ive noticed that happens more then id like is people never refer to me as maam, miss or sir. For exsmple I was in Starbucks today with no mu on and the server was saying hi maam sir etc to everyone and I was worried because I had no mu so I was thinking oh watch they wont call me maam and sure enough they didnt, they just said hello with no reference. Ugh I feel its a sure sign I can look androgynous. I think its my nose angle, its at 90 degrees and is a bit manly from some angles. Infact ive heard someone say I look like a man from "certain angles" but ive also had people tell me im pretty so its confusing. If posible can I pm some pics and get your opinion. If I sm sndrogynous, please let me know what surgeries to get.

[mrs izzy]

Welcome Cisgirl to Susan's family

Do many topics to read and posts to write.

Perspective is sometime cloudy and it takes talking to a therapist to clear feeling up.

Nothing wrong being Cis or someone with Gd. We all are human.

[kast]

Wait.. why do you want surgeries? Sorry, I'm not really sure what the question is. Perhaps you do look androgynous, but you're a cis female so you identify as a woman and you're happy with being female, right? As your situation sounds like a self-esteem issue instead of a gender issue, I would advise against cosmetic surgery... especially because your sole motivation seems to be based on other peoples views of you, rather than a personal desire to look different. You will probably benefit from talking to a therapist about this.

[Elsa Delyth]

Is your problem that you completely identify as female, but are perceived as androgynous, and wish to know what surgeries to get to render yourself more feminine, so that people will not make that mistake?

I don't think that surgeries are necessary, perhaps just try different fashion first, or practice different mannerisms. I think that surgery is a big deal, and if you can avoid it, then you should.

[cisgirl]

I feel very female inside and it hurts when I feel people see me as otherwise. If I can make myself look undeniably female I would feel a weight lifted off of me and much happier
Again if anyone can look at pics and let me know if even this is a mental isdue? If so why was I only one not addressed by gender.... it seems weird

[Ms Grace]

Maybe it's just the way you cut your hair, the clothes you wear, something like that?

[cisgirl]

I have hair down to the middle of my back but I had my winter coat on so you couldnt see my curves.
im fairly flat chested (A) but I have a good WHR and shapely bottom but neither was visible

[Elsa Delyth]

Well, it is the winter time (it was -20c where I live today), so I hope that you bundle up! If it's just your face you think, then were you wearing makeup?

[cisgirl]

No I wasnt because I had just come from a facial. But is it normal to look androgynous without make-up?

[Cindy]

You can download pics from a third party system such as photobucket.

Be aware that once a pic is posted on the internet it is public property and can be viewed by anyone.

[Elsa Delyth]

No I wasnt because I had just come from a facial. But is it normal to look androgynous without make-up?

It's normal to look more androgynous, than with makeup, for sure.

[ImagineKate]

I've noticed when I don't have a beard shadow (I.e. A few days before electrolysis) a lot of people don't gender me unless I talk, in which case it's an immediate "sir." In girl mode I mostly get a "miss" or "ma'am" but once I got a sir. Didn't answer it. I wasn't trying hard and wasn't wearing makeup. I am MtF. So I guess people are trying to figure stuff out?

My advice would be to try to get the help of a stylist. If you don't present very female, you generally won't get gendered female. Unfortunately that's how it is.

[cisgirl]

Im trying to understand why it is like that, as I am a CIS female. Could I have a hormone problem? Are a lot of CIS women androgynous without make-up? I really want to look completely female without make up at all times. Id prefer to direct message photos. Do I need a special account? If so I could email pictures.

[JoanneB]

A very close female friend of mine some years ago was 6 ft tall, sort of big boned but not overweight at all and a good C cup. If it weren't for her very long down to her waist hair you wouldn't think she was a female. After breaking up with her long time b/f she cut the hair since he liked it so much (plus it being a PITA). Well... she got a lot of the same treatment you are experiencing.

I often tell other transwomen who are obsessed about passing, how they look, totally fixated on glamor and Hollywood idealized images this 6 ft tall, big boned frog hands and super extra large feet little Reality Test and Self-Confidence Exercise. It is easy to do, something we all have to on a regular basis.

The next time you are waiting on the check out line at the supermarket on a Friday Night or Saturday afternoon, take a good look around at "Normal" women. They come in many flavors and all shapes and sizes.

When I am out and about in the real world as the real me I always try to have a clearly unambiguous female presentation. First off, I love girlie girl but even in jeans I try to leave no doubt. Second is I want to minimize doubts as I am 6ft tall and tend to stand out. In male mode the big tall bald ugly dude has no prob passing and has never been misgendered. Even with a B cup

[cisgirl]

If I wear mu confusion is very rare, unless im too thin as weight will go from my face and Ill look too angular, but I dont like having to wear mu to look undeniably  female. I feel I should be able to walk out naturally and look female and that something is wrong. Am I over reading these incidents or would you notice not being gender addressed like everyone else? I was expecting it too, because I felt I looked androgynous and my heart sank when it happened.... if im talking and smiling not, but with straight face yes.

[ImagineKate]

Im trying to understand why it is like that, as I am a CIS female.

I don't think that should matter. I have seen a lot of cis females who naturally look very manly. Not saying you do (I haven't even seen a picture of yours). Likewise I've seen a lot of trans women who look unmistakeably female and you wouldn't even be able to tell they were trans unless they told you. Then there is the whole spectrum in between.

Could I have a hormone problem? Are a lot of CIS women androgynous without make-up? I really want to look completely female without make up at all times. Id prefer to direct message photos. Do I need a special account? If so I could email pictures.

Women come in all shapes, sizes, colors etc. Yes, a lot of cis women are androgynous without makeup.

Do you have a hormone problem? Only your doctor can answer that. Do you have a lot of facial hair? That could be a sign that you have a hormone problem, but only your doctor can tell you and he/she has to do blood tests and examine you. If you do have a hormone problem your doctor can prescribe you medication to fix that. For facial hair (if you have any) you can use laser hair reduction or electrolysis to reduce or remove it.

Surgery? If you want surgery, talk to a plastic surgeon. Lots of women (cis and trans) have plastic surgery done.

What's your voice like? If it's a bit deep, that could be causing some of your issues too. 

[cisgirl]

My voice is on the lower side but the timbre is female. I have a slight pectus excavatum which isnt overly femme as my shoulders stick out and chest is more in but im pretty petite. Im 5'6 120 lbs, small wrists etc. Im pretty positive the issue is my face, as it is angular and narrow but with larger features. My head is much much smaller than most peoples as well. Im at a loss with why my face is not as femme as the norm, I see it but cant pinpoint why

[Ms Grace]

You should understand that being cis has nothing to do with how you look or how others respond to you. All cis means is that you identify with the gender you were assigned at birth based on your sex.

It doesn't sound Like people are misgendering you (which happens to plenty of cis people), calling you sir or he/him, so it would seem they are just unsure. From our point of view, as trans women, ensuring we don't get misgendered means changing our hair and clothing and other cues. Passing as female isn't all about physical appearance but also about presentation.

[Julia-Madrid]

Seriously cisgirl, surgery is far from the best answer to your issues!!

Those of us here who have it do so because without it, we are basically unable to function.  You already are who you need to be. And most feminising surgery has consequences or a down side - take breast implants: cool, but they will need replacing every decade or so.  Facial surgery has risks too - long term discomfort, loss of movement, loss of feeling...

Masses of women look androgynous.  Just sit about any cosmopolitan place and watch.  Many gorgeous women look a fright without makeup, even masculine.  So what? We do what we need to do. Makeup is cheap enough,  and it isn't surgery - you can just repaint yourself if you need.  I understand the philosophical issues you are dealing with, but I do agree with others here that you have other avenues to explore.

Good luck
Julia

[awilliams1701]

I'd like to add that if you haven't tried it already, try a padded bra. I wear one now and then and I think it helps. Its a lot cheaper than implants too.

Seriously cisgirl, surgery is far from the best answer to your issues!!

Those of us here who have it do so because without it, we are basically unable to function.  You already are who you need to be. And most feminising surgery has consequences or a down side - take breast implants: cool, but they will need replacing every decade or so.  Facial surgery has risks too - long term discomfort, loss of movement, loss of feeling...

Masses of women look androgynous.  Just sit about any cosmopolitan place and watch.  Many gorgeous women look a fright without makeup, even masculine.  So what? We do what we need to do. Makeup is cheap enough,  and it isn't surgery - you can just repaint yourself if you need.  I understand the philosophical issues you are dealing with, but I do agree with others here that you have other avenues to explore.

Good luck
Julia