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What percentage of MTF have doubts during transition, and how often?

Started by Aus76, January 05, 2015, 02:48:31 PM

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Do you experience/did you experience doubts....

During transition
After transition
During and After transition
Doubting yourself is a part of life not tied to being trans
I never had/have doubts

katrinaw

I have, technically been transitioning since my forties, went on HRT cusp of forties to fifties....

Every time I set myself up (been plenty and even before Forties) something has stopped me from stepping over that line or point of no return... be it Wife, Kids, Job... always an excuse...

I am hoping I do not repeat this time.... running outta time, also got a much larger wardrobe (feint  :laugh:)... This time I did come out to a close friend.... now got to get the courage up (after finding work) to fully come out, then transition to FT. Plan is 3 ~ 4 very close face to face friends (support group and not known to SO's)), then do the ultimate with SO's (probably be exiled at that point...)

So hence why "technically" transitioning

L Katy  :-*
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
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Vicky Mitchell


Quote from: ChrissyChips on January 05, 2015, 06:59:07 PM
Well I'm only just starting on this journey so I have ALL the doubts, lol.  At the moment they seem almost constant.  One look in the mirror is enough to set them off, one look around the house and family I will be leaving soon (not from choice). 

But one thing I don't doubt is that if I don't do this I will never ever forgive myself in the future. To know who I really am and what I need to do about it yet do nothing? Noooooo!  So I push through all the doubts and fear, hold on desperately to that vision of myself and hope that one day I will go to bed and actually care if I wake up the next day.

Screw doubts :)

I know this feeling too it appears we are on the same page.  Here's to happy endings. 


Vicky
MtF
Vicky



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ImagineKate

My doubts are primarily about who am I harming and will I pass.

My outings in girl mode have been interesting and revealing.

I do get ma'am and miss sometimes but I also get "sir." Most times I don't get any gendering or I might get "hon" or similar (which is genderless?). "Sir" comes more often when I have a beard shadow, 2-3 days prior to electrolysis. Also when I talk. I still use my male wallet because I want to get a good purse. I bought one but returned it, didn't like it much. My voice is nowhere near female, even though I have been learning through FYFV (Andrea James). I am improving some but nowhere near where I'd like to be.

The "sir"s are discouraging. Sometimes I just ignore them. Most times I just walk off.

In girl mode it is problematic with the kids because they constantly scream, "daddy!" likely encouraged by their mom. But they are kids, this is what they do. What can I do? Absolutely nothing. I am still theirs and I don't want them to feel abandoned. The worst was when my daughter blurted out in the grocery store, "daddy, you and <my brother> have a penis and me and <my sister> and mommy have a vagina." WTF!!!??? To be fair, I did tell them the proper names of those parts (penis and vagina) to guard against sexual abuse by child care professionals and others.  However I told them they can only say that at home. Needless to say it turned some heads, got some chuckles and some stares.

I have a feeling some people "sir" me as a test. They kind of suspect something, and if they confirm their gendering, something goes off in their heads... it doesn't help that I don't yet wear makeup, which I'm going to start doing soon though. And I have my stupid male glasses which I'm getting rid of soon.

I have also never worn a skirt or dress in public. Well, except outside my own home but that doesn't really count. I plan to change that soon but I want some progress with the voice first.
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Ellesmira the Duck

Doubts for me come and go just kind of based on life, some times they are more tied to being trans then others. Currently I'm worried that even the guy who says he wants to be with me and that things don't bother him might not feel that way after he spends more time with me. Or there's doubting how passable I actually am and if compliments are just people trying to be nice, but it's best not to dwell on those doubts if you can help it.
Live a life with no regrets and be the person you know you were meant to be.

I am a weird girl, I like video games and skirts, swords and nail polish, sharks and black lace...not sure if that's normal, definitely sure that I don't care. =P
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jeni

I'm not voting because I'm too early in transition to know the answer, but I'll add my voice here. I would say that since finally understanding and accepting myself as trans, I have had zero doubts about that. I have had zero or nearly zero doubts that, in the abstract, I want to fully transition, surgery and all, as soon as I can make it happen.

My doubts are practical doubts, like some of the folks who already posted. Do I have the strength to take this difficult road? Will I ever pass well enough that I can feel comfortable? Will my kids get $#@ at school for having a TS parent? Those things I struggle with. But I never doubt that I'm female.
-=< Jennifer >=-

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ChrissyChips

QuoteI know this feeling too it appears we are on the same page.  Here's to happy endings.

Well we're writing our own stories Vicky, so what better chance for a happy ending? :)

QuoteThe worst was when my daughter blurted out in the grocery store, "daddy, you and <my brother> have a penis and me and <my sister> and mommy have a vagina." WTF!!!???

That one had me rolling around Kate!
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Zumbagirl

Having doubts in ones decisions is a part of life. Let's face it a gender transition is a pretty big task to undertake and I would very skeptical of someone who said "zero doubts, etc" at the beginning of a transition or even part way through since it's impossible to know at the beginning or middle of a journey just how the journey is going to end if there even is an end. I had no idea going into this of just what kind of person I would be coming out. "Who was I really?" Would be a difficult question to answer at the start of a process. All I can say is I reached a point in my life where doing nothing was worse than doing something, the something being the transition itself. I am pretty sure that if I had done nothing at all, then I would be a very miserable person indeed or very likely not even here at all. There are a lot of daunting questions to face during a gender transition.

* will I meet my own expectations of an outcome?
* will I be able to provide for myself?
* will I be worse off or better off afterwards?
* what if I have to leave my old life entirely in the dust and walk away to an uncertain future?
* do I really have the right savvy and courage to be the person I really want or was meant to be?

All I can say in my case is that for better or for worse, my transition proved the one thing that I always knew about myself, that I should have been born a girl. It's definitely the gender role for me, physically, psychically and sexually.
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ChrissyChips

I have to say that every now and then a thread comes along that gives me the exact answers I need at the exact time I need them....and this is one of them :)
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LizMarie

I had a lot of doubts before reaching full time but I literally took two years on HRT before I did took that step. Part of the reason for that long period was personal insecurity and doubts. But my therapist and I have worked through a lot of these issues (repeatedly no less! :) ) and I finally reached a point where, in March of last year I knew. That was when I spent a week away in another city with dear friends and everywhere I went I was accepted as me, as a woman, and I even attracted some male attention.

I'm not perfect. Nobody is. But I believe in myself now and I know that transition is right for me. For me, since I came out to HR and my boss back in March, there have been no more doubts thus far about transition.

As to the question of who I will hurt? Again, my therapist and I worked through this. I didn't hurt anyone. I chose a regimen of treatment prescribed for my GID and suicidal tendencies. My spouse and eldest son were the ones who chose to be hurt about this. And that was their decision, because my daughter was not. Disappointed that my spouse and I would not finish our lives together, but not hurt about this. (She's been divorced once so understood better than my sons perhaps.) My youngest son chose to be hurt, at first, but he seems to finally be coming around, beginning to accept me, beginning to come over, talk to me, let me see his child (one of my grandchildren). I hope that my little grandson grows up and always knows me as Cara and nothing else. I hope that my other grandchildren can let the image of "him" fade and learn to see me as Cara as well. (My eldest grandchild is doing that and handling it well so far too.)

Once I realized that certain people chose to be hurt over this, I would ask them, why weren't you hurt when I chose chemotherapy and surgery to fight cancer back in 1996? Why did you support one medical treatment regimen and oppose another? I've never received a clear answer to that either. And, as my youngest son begins to open up to me again, I realize even more strongly, that certain people chose certain responses to this, that they own their own responses, and that they can change their responses. And when they choose not to change that response, it's a deliberate choice too.

As a lot of these emotional issues have settled for me over the last few years, as I've become my own woman, my doubts have faded, at least about transition.
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.



~ Cara Elizabeth
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alexbb

This might help with your doubts

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

some excerpts

"Group Three (G3) is composed of natal males who identify as female but who act and appear normally male. We can hypothesize that prenatal androgenization was sufficient to allow these individuals to appear and act normally as males but insufficient to establish a firm male gender identity. For these female-identified males, the result is a more complicated and insidious sex/gender discontinuity. Typically, from earliest childhood these individuals suffer increasingly painful and chronic gender dysphoria. They tend to live secretive lives, often making increasingly stronger attempts to convince themselves and others that they are male....

The story is very different for Group Three. In the hope of ridding themselves of their dysphoria they tend to invest heavily in typical male activities. Being largely heterosexual, they marry and have children, hold advanced educational degrees and are involved at high levels of corporate and academic cultures. These are the invisible or cloistered gender dysphorics. They develop an aura of deep secrecy based on shame and risk of ridicule and their secret desire to be female is protected at all costs. The risk of being found out adds to the psychological and physiological pressures they experience. Transitioning from this deeply entrenched defensive position is very difficult. The irony here is that gender dysphoric symptoms appear to worsen in direct proportion to their self-enforced entrenchment in the male world. The further an individual gets from believing he can ever live as a female, the more acute and disruptive his dysphoria becomes....

In what follows I describe five distinct developmental stages, that make up the standard periods of developmental psychology: childhood, adolescence, young adult, middle age, and older adult.

Childhood---Confusion and rebellion

Adolescence--False hopes and disappointment

Early adulthood--Hesitant compliance

Middle age--Feelings of self induced entrapment

Older adult--Depression and resignation"

Since there is no evidence that cross-gender behavior occurs more often in boys than it does in girls, a possible interpretation of this statistic is that effeminacy in boys may be considered by parents to be more upsetting and in need of correction than tomboyish behavior in girls.

Given the nature of the disorder and the ability of some children to conceal it, I believe that most children with gender dysphoria are never diagnosed as such. Those children cope by sticking rigorously to the role expected of them. Privately, however, they continue to go deeper and deeper into a highly guarded parallel world of cross-gender envy and fantasy. Given their propensity to be studious, detached and self absorbed, I have come to think of these children as living cloistered lives. These children grow up to form the core of Group Three.

For cloistered gender dysphoric boys it was in the area of peers and activities, especially sports, that the problem was most noticeable. Unable or uninterested in competing in organized boys' activities and having been shuffled decidedly away from playing with the girls, many became reclusive. To add to their confusion, and counter to behavior typically reported in openly gender dysphoric boys, many cloistered boys actually preferred solo play with boys' toys and had little or no interest in girls' toys. For example I have heard more than one long-time post-op male-to-female transsexual speak fondly of having spent countless hours playing with an Erector Set or a Lionel model train set-up that their father had helped them build. Others described of designing and making detailed model airplanes, race cars and sailing ships. The more academic of this group report little or no interest in sports and rough and tumble play. To avoid castigation from their peers, they report spending a lot of time reading and studying. However, although these children appeared to be normal boys doing what most people would consider some normal boy activities, they may very well have been doing so while secretly wearing their mother's or sister's underwear, fantasizing about being a girl or both if they could manage it....

Another common attempt to "make it"- as a man by gender dysphoric males in this age range is to marry and have children. Unlike their non-dysphoric male peers, these men's attraction toward the idea of family is not the standard one. Some individuals report telling their partners about their life long desires to be female before getting married, but the vast majority do not, perhaps from fear of ridicule or rejection, or because they maintain the fantasy that marriage will provide a cure. Many clients report that they were sure that being a husband would cement their maleness. This logic, unfortunately, gets extended to the idea of having children. Although gender dysphoric males are generally no better or worse as fathers then the next man, they soon come to realize that what they had hoped would be an answer has instead complicated their gender issues enormously.....

For those who continue to struggle inwardly with their gender issues into mid-life, new issues come to the fore. As a time when most people realize that about half of life has been lived and feel the need to make an accounting of who they are and what they have done with their lives, this period can be especially anxiety provoking for the gender-dysphoric individual. Decades of trying to overcome an increasing gender expression deprivation anxiety begin to weigh heavily on the individual. Family and career are now as deeply rooted as they will ever be. The idea of starting over as a member of a different sex has become seemingly impossible. The fact that the need to change sex has increased rather than diminished, despite Herculean efforts, is now undeniable....

Yet when interviewed, those who chose to remain male speak of a clear longing for what might have been. Senior gender dysphoric males typically report they have been waiting, many since childhood in the hope that their desire to be female would simply "go away." Like those who are younger, they say in resignation that if they had known the dysphoria was going to remain such a strong force in their lives, they would have braved anything to face their dilemma decades sooner..."

Characteristically these people can be described as sad, depressed and deeply resentful. In treating these individuals, the best that can be done is to help them feel better about cross-dressing and encourage them to have contact with other crossdressers their age. Success of sorts can be as simple as helping someone find the courage to shave off a moustache behind which he has been hiding his gender issues for forty years...."

chilling.
it goes on with uncanny accuracy... well worth a read.

the final pargraph of th conclusion is- well, see for yourself.

"Gender identity issues can be a life-long condition for those who find it too difficult to deal with directly. Each life stage presents new dilemmas and decisions in relation to this core issue. In general it can be said that the more the individual struggles to rid themselves of gender dysphoria by increasing social and physical investments in their assigned sex, the greater the generalized anxiety and the harder it becomes to restart life sexually reassigned. For those individuals who, despite all obstacles, can transition to a new gender role, it has been shown that gender transition that includes psychotherapy, hormonal therapy and--in most cases--gender reassignment surgery, significantly reduce and eventually eliminates the anxiety entirely[/i]."

Time to get cracking ladies. Lets adapt, overcome, and move into a happy new part of our lives!

katrinaw

Alex, on the face of your post it seems to be fairly accurate, certainly during my lifespan....

"
Childhood---Confusion and rebellion - Yes certainly Confusion over why do I feel the way I do, tried harming and wishing those unwanted organs would go or not be there... Rebellion, I guess sort of but more born of frustration

Adolescence--False hopes and disappointment

Early adulthood--Hesitant compliance - Yep, in absence of help or even listen by anyone that might care, I tried to conform, got married had kids etc, etc, etc....

Middle age--Feelings of self induced entrapment - This was the killer time for me, was almost a yearly battle, tried in my mind to step through all opportunities to transition till finally started HRT very late forties... But was still trapped, could not destroy the trust so many had in me, and not just family...

Older adult--Depression and resignation - Time for real change! Just can't keep pretending anymore, want to enjoy the remaining years of my life being the person I always knew and dreamt of making reality!


Certainly will read the full paper...

L Katy  :-*
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
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BunnyBee

Idk.  I mean I can see how that article is describing common narratives, but I feel like it is trying to put people in boxes they may or may not fit, and I also just feel the premise it has about prenatal androgenization just sounds kind of... made up?  It all just seems like an old way of thinking.

However, the narratives being described have become common for a reason.  This feeling really doesn't ever just go away I don't believe.
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Carrie Liz

Alex, this is definitely a "classical" model that works for a majority of trans people. If you identify with these stories, then great!

I just want to add in, though, not everyone is going to fit neatly into one of these two narratives. (And I'm illustrating this so that those who don't neatly fit into one or the other won't feel excluded or doubt themselves because of it.) This was a model that was more common back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, where the focus of the mental health community was often on the dichotomy between "primary transsexualism" (young-transitioning homosexual transgender people,) and "secondary transsexualism" (late-transitioning heterosexual transgender people.)

And, well, as with any binary, it does not work for everyone. Usually the stereotype is that late transitioners are heterosexual, fit in just fine as male, had normal male friends and behavior, even might have married, generally blended in just fine as their birth sex pre-transition; where early transitioners are highly gender-nonconforming, homosexual, and never blended in as male.

Again, for those that this model works for, fine. But then you have anomales... take me for example. I did NOT have any childhood gender dysphoria. I never cross-dressed, I never wanted to be a girl as a kid, and then all of a sudden at age 14 it hit me like a ton of bricks. And even though I've always been "heterosexual," I didn't blend in as a "normal" male. I was teased all through my childhood because of my effeminate behavior and mannerisms I did prefer the friendships of girls just like your typical "primary" transsexual person, and I often find that my experiences of dysphoria have more in common with the young transitioners who usually transition in high school or college than the late transitioners, even though I was straight and even though by all other measures I should be a "secondary" transsexual because my dysphoria didn't even start until puberty. (Hell, there's not even a place in these two narratives that mentions that some people's dysphoria starts later in life. Both of them imply that it's "supposed" to start in childhood, age 4-5.) There's a lot of contradictions like this. There's many homosexual trans women I know who didn't transition until they were into their thirties. Technically they should be "primary" due to their sexual orientation, but their age and the degree of their dysphoria more closely match those of "secondary" transsexuals.

Just throwing that out there.
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alexbb

Interesting, and makes a lot of sense! Thanks!

I guess the two types are attractors on the graph round which more subtle variants like yourself orbit. I was absolutely struck at how it seemed to perfectly sum up my own life with frnkly spooky acuracy and just assumed others would feel the same, so its good to have more perspective on things.

Im certain you are right about lack of nuance, and Id love to see a paper based on thousands of stories and more detail, and not just on what sounds like western, white people, but the signal that seems to be emerging from the data; it doesnt go away. Doubts, while natural, simply prolong and increase dysphoria. Ive yet to find a story from the tens ive read of anyone who was delighted about not transitioning, they all love it. And the ones who dont are very very sad. Thats inline with the percentages mentioned in the paper; 1-2% regret transition. 98-99% dont.
So even for people with doubts, which surely is everyone at some stage, youve a 98 or 99% chance that if you want to transition, youll feel better if you do. Im new to all this as you can tell, but those odds definitely help me with my doubts.

katrinaw

Hi Carrie, Fair comment, however it sort of works for me, coming through those dark years (for me), but, as you so rightly point out, its not for everyone... especially those in the more enlightened times  ;)

I lived through the "the kid is sick" feed mind modifying drugs and commit to an institution.... are more commonly "where did you come up with 'I want to be a girl', go play with your trucks and I won't tell your father when he gets home!" The subject of Dysphoria, transsexual's or transgender were not known generally, there was no internet etc.... If you kept suggesting you should have been born in the opposite sex, you were labelled as queer and generally set upon... parents would see Dr's asking if anything can be done to correct the Kid! This is what caused suppression of desires and need to conform back in the dark ages  :embarrassed:  then >:(

Sorry not meaning to rant  :laugh: certainly not bitter.... well a tiny bit because of.....

Still times are a changing, thank god  :)

L Katy :-*
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
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akegia

I have doubts all the time, about a lot of things. So doubting myself during transition is normal.

I am scared that I won't ever pass, I am scared I will never get voice right, I am scared of losing my security. However all that said I don't want to go back, just have to keep pushing forwards with who I am.
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jeni

I totally agree that it's difficult and dangerous to file people into boxes, but it is eerie how closely the description in alexbb's quote reflects the trajectory of my life so far. That it also agrees with more or less exactly what I'd already concluded about myself feels pretty reassuring.
-=< Jennifer >=-

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AnnaCannibal

In the morning, when I'm getting ready for work is when I feel most feminine and ready for the day.

  As the hours slug by and my interactions with other people increases, so my confidence wanes.  It's at these moments, these miniscule happenings with people, that I feel the most doubt overtake my being.

I'm still in shock at just how much a single person at a cash register proclaiming me sir can negatively affect my day and further doubt.  Im still learning to cope with these things, but it's not something that can be learned overnight.
Is it progression if a cannibal uses a fork?
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TaoRaven

it was "transition or die."

No room for doubts.

And the way this whole thing has just felt so RIGHT the whole time kind of chased any doubts away as well.

I feel absolutely incredible, and I love my life....at last.
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Mary81

I cannot really say I doubt or have doubted the fact that I am trans or that I am doing the right thing by transitioning. As TaoRaven said, it was a do or die sort of choice for me. I also love all the feminine aspects of my face and body and personality. That said, the man-in-the-mirror is terrible and from time to time I doubt that I will ever really pass well enough to be happy.
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