How long can an MtF reasonably keep passing as a male?

[April Lee]

Without FFS, I think I could always pass as male if I wanted to. I might now look like a rather frail man, and possibly one that is a little strange looking, but I am guessing most people would just think I am not well. My therapist said to me recently that she has never seen anybody who can look as radically different from boy mode to girl mode as I do, and she has been a trans therapist for more than 20 years. I am 6'3", and even though have developed the start of a female voice, I can still drop it into the cellar if I need to get heard. I have had a little fun a few times meeting people in boy mode, who have known me only as female, and not having them recognize who I was. I sort of think of that as a backwards form of passing

[ImagineKate]

People were commenting - a lot - that is was looking younger.

I got that when I started HRT. My friend didn't have a clue until I came out though.

Interestingly enough it was from a friend who was in a glam rock band and wore makeup and women's clothing as part of the show.

[ImagineKate]

My therapist said to me recently that she has never seen anybody who can look as radically different from boy mode to girl mode as I do, and she has been a trans therapist for more than 20 years.

I would say that, but I think more time on HRT could change that.

You do have a sense of style though, and I like it a lot.

[NancyDrew1930]

Just last Thursday I had the truck in for on oil change, and when I walked into the seating area there was an old acquaintance there talking to garage manager, and at first didn't see me.  However, when he was finished talking to the manager and had started to turn around, I said "Hi", and immediately he was doing a double take, since even though I was not presenting female (I had some makeup on top of my sunscreen to give me color so that people didn't think that I was a "ghost", and a small claw clip at the back of my hair, I wasn't trying to present feminine, just getting an oil change, and had thrown my look together rather quickly, plus I had my blue light glasses on because I knew that I was going into a place with fluroescent lights) I could tell that he was trying to remember me, but also my appearance was confusing him, since he wasn't sure if he was talking to a man or woman.  We talked for a little bit, and at one point he asked me if I was transitioning, and I never gave him an answer, since we got interrupted by the manager asking him something about his car, and afterwards, he and I talked some more, but we never got back around to him asking about my transition.  Of course I'm not yet out to my family, and he's a friend of my brother, so I didn't want him telling my brother when I haven't told my brother yet.  However, I still got a thrill that I am starting to male fail when I'm not trying too.

And a few weeks ago when I was at the store, I did get someone who called me "she" and then corrected themselves.

[NancyDrew1930]

Ok just had one I didn't expect but I just had someone on the phone (one of those annoying "we're doing an environmental survey..." nuisance calls), and the woman at the other end called me "Mrs.____". I've never had vocal training or anything like that, but I guess I sounded female to her. 

[ChrissyRyan]

At some point if you have been blessed with female features, it can be very hard to pass as a male.  That is because you just look female to most people, at least at first glance.

However, if you have distinct male facial features, are really muscular, very tall, hairy, or with a clearly male voice, then it can be quite awhile before you male fail. 

Be aware that there are some CIS females that look more male than female though.  Maybe that comes with age in part.  Others just do not look very feminine.  Perhaps that look is intentional by some, but not for others.

Hormones for transitioning, managed appropriately by your physicians, can do wonders.

I get clocked when people overhear some of my speaking more than at any other time.
If I am careless with clothing (too unisex, as an example) or get really sweaty that does not help either.

Look at many of the other woman here, they look so nice.  They have different transitioning stories, some have had surgeries, and some started MTF hormones perhaps much earlier than others.  Everyone is different.  Just look at the other posts made so far.

Chrissy

[NancyDrew1930]

At some point if you have been blessed with female features, it can be very hard to pass as a male.  That is because you just look female to most people, at least at first glance.

However, if you have distinct male facial features, are really muscular, very tall, hairy, or with a clearly male voice, then it can be quite awhile before you male fail. 

Be aware that there are some CIS females that look more male than female though.  Maybe that comes with age in part.  Others just do not look very feminine.  Perhaps that look is intentional by some, but not for others.

Hormones for transitioning, managed appropriately by your physicians, can do wonders.

I get clocked when people overhear some of my speaking more than at any other time.
If I am careless with clothing (too unisex, as an example) or get really sweaty that does not help either.

Look at many of the other woman here, they look so nice.  They have different transitioning stories, some have had surgeries, and some started MTF hormones perhaps much earlier than others.  Everyone is different.  Just look at the other posts made so far.

Chrissy

In my case I'm intersex as well so my original puberty did not have the same effect on me as other AMAB's, and seems to have me follow both puberties for both males and females. So there were parts that never developed as male but as female.  Or like my voice it never dropped as much as other males.  Of course for a while the doctors thought I had Kleinfelter's, but my kerotype test came back saying that I have XY chromosomes, so they are not sure why I have features of Kleinfelter's.

So my current HRT seems to be building on the natural female part of my original puberty.

[Lori Dee]

In my case I'm intersex as well so my original puberty did not have the same effect on me as other AMAB's, and seems to have me follow both puberties for both males and females. So there were parts that never developed as male but as female.  Or like my voice it never dropped as much as other males.  Of course for a while the doctors thought I had Kleinfelter's, but my kerotype test came back saying that I have XY chromosomes, so they are not sure why I have features of Kleinfelter's.

So my current HRT seems to be building on the natural female part of my original puberty.

I wonder if Androgen Insensitivity has something to do with it. With that condition, testosterone is produced but the androgen receptors in the body are "insensitive" to it. In essence, testosterone would have no effect. Typically, this would result in a feminine appearance despite XY chromosomes.

I don't know if Androgen Insensitivity is all-or-nothing (either you have it or not), or if it can be in a range from mild to severe, where only some areas are unaffected. I don't know enough about it.

[Lilis]

I don't know if Androgen Insensitivity is all-or-nothing (either you have it or not), or if it can be in a range from mild to severe, where only some areas are unaffected. I don't know enough about it.

Same. I am working with my medical professionals about this, as they learn more from me and this condition. Additionally, I joined intersex communities on other forums to look for answers. It's going to be interesting what we all learn about this condition.

[Lilis]

So my current HRT seems to be building on the natural female part of my original puberty.

Same. But I'm already on low dose Estradiol and Spironolactone. I called my doctor and I asked if there's anything lower because I don't want to feminize my self to much. She said we will know what is going on when they check my levels in September, which is my first pit stop.

In the meantime she said I can bite the Estradiol and Spironolactone tablets in half if I become to concern about my progress.

[ChrissyRyan]

I am thinking of facial surgery but it is probably better to save the money instead.
So I think I will keep the status quo.

Chrissy

[NancyDrew1930]

I wonder if Androgen Insensitivity has something to do with it. With that condition, testosterone is produced but the androgen receptors in the body are "insensitive" to it. In essence, testosterone would have no effect. Typically, this would result in a feminine appearance despite XY chromosomes.

I don't know if Androgen Insensitivity is all-or-nothing (either you have it or not), or if it can be in a range from mild to severe, where only some areas are unaffected. I don't know enough about it.

I might have Androgen Insensitivity, since when they looked back on my records my testosterone was always right on the border of the crossover zone where if AMAB people are in it it is considered low, but for AFAB people it is high.  (It might've been 0.1 or 0.2 inside or just outside, but I always seemed to be on the fence of that zone). Aside from my recent tests over the past few years, my older records did not show any tests on my estrogen levels so they don't know how much estrogen I naturally produced prior to my baselines for MTF HRT.

But right now with my other issues, finding out if I have Androgen Insensitivity or what made me Intersex are on the back burner, unless something comes up where they need to find out more about it.

However, with my X chromosome there are other things I was born with that are linked to mutations on my X, so it's possible that I do have Androgen Insensitivity because of a mutation on my X chromosome that caused my body to not fully be able to use testosterone.  Of course another theory that has come up is that my Y was only working at half power and when it joined with the X from my mom, it didn't have enough power to "flip all the switches" on my X from female to male, so they are wondering if my X was working with half its switches in the male mode, and the other half in the female position all my life.

[Rachel]

Woman at work were saying I looked different at about 6 months. They were saying my face looked softer and whiter. At 9 ,months a guy at work put his hand on my back and asked if I was wearing a bra. I needed FFS and Hair transplants. My hair was down to just above my shoulders at 2 years.

I came out at work at at 3 years, FFS & GCS & Hair transplants at 4 years BA at 5 years. Wearing female clothing was really difficult because I thought I in not way passed until I had the procedures.

After the work above I could not be seen as a guy if I tried. I knew when I had FFS (first procedure) that there was no going back. The night before FFS I looked in the mirror and asked myself if I was sure. I replied yes. I remember taking the bandages off in the short stay at day 4 post op FFS. I cried. I did not recognize the person looking in the mirror. I look like my sister.

I have been on HRT for 12.5 years and people think I am 10 plus years younger than I am.

[BlueJaye]

Once I started HRT in May 2018, it took about two years until I couldn't pass as male anymore. And realistically, it was more like a year. The first year I spent more time off HRT than I did on, and went about 6 consecutive months completely off HRT. I don't think HRT did much in that first year since I kept flip flopping due to fears and anxieties about my marriage and career.

I buckled down with HRT in May 2019, started growing my hair out in January 2020, and had a few laser hair removal sessions. By around June of 2020, I was pretty consistently being addressed as "ma'am", "miss", etc. in public even though I was still wearing men's clothing. I continued to grow my hair out and have some more laser hair removal sessions and went full time living as a woman in January 2021.

I think a lot of people overestimate the impact of muscles on the ability to pass. I am very muscular and pass with ease. Passing has a lot more to do with skeletal structure, voice, and body language than how much muscle mass you have.

[Sarah B]

Hi Nancy

I noticed the following quoted passages and are listed in order of time, the first one:

Last night I was out for dinner with a group I volunteer with, and I'm not out to them, however I just saw a photo on Facebook and I was in the back in the photo, and at first I was like "Who's that woman?  I don't recall seeing her there."  Then I realized that it was me!  The way I had my hair, I really had that feminine look even though I was presenting male.

The second one:

We talked for a little bit, and at one point he asked me if I was transitioning, and I never gave him an answer, since we got interrupted by the manager asking him something about his car, and afterwards, he and I talked some more, but we never got back around to him asking about my transition.  Of course I'm not yet out to my family, and he's a friend of my brother, so I didn't want him telling my brother when I haven't told my brother yet.  However, I still got a thrill that I am starting to male fail when I'm not trying too.

The third one:

I didn't say anything but it was nice that I could tell it that to them I was giving off a more fem vibe than a male vibe.

The fourth one:

Ok just had one I didn't expect but I just had someone on the phone (one of those annoying "we're doing an environmental survey..." nuisance calls), and the woman at the other end called me "Mrs.____". I've never had vocal training or anything like that, but I guess I sounded female to her

The question you should be asking yourself is this; "I wonder if I went out completely as Nancy", I would not be surprised if you were successful presenting as a female.

It's good to hear that things are going well for you.

Love and Hugs
Sarah B
Official Greeter
@NancyDrew1930 

[Karen_A]

If I am careless with clothing (too unisex, as an example) or get really sweaty that does not help either.

That was different from my experience. Pre transition, after over a year on HRT, electrolysis nearly done and a hair style that could work either way, dressed casual male (though not strongly gendered clothing) no one at work at had clue, but when at a restaurant dressed that way (but seated) I was often taken for female by the waitresses.

But when I dressed unambiguously (but appropriately and not overdone ) female, i was often read. That has never changed.

Oh well, at least it helps keep my clothing expenses down!;)

- Karen

[Maid Marion]

But when I dressed unambiguously (but appropriately and not overdone ) female, i was often read. That has never changed.

It is likely that your fashion style emphasized or highlighted your male gender markers.

As a guy, advice is to dress in a monochome, to make me look taller.
Now that my waist is well below 24 inches, contrasting tops and bottoms emphasize my hourglass figure!
Light colored skirts are often at a good discount, as they aren't as popular as dark colors.

I can also wear nail polish, as my hands are small.

Many of us have nice legs.  Fashions that show off the lower half of the may be a good goal.

Marion

[Karen_A]

It is likely that your fashion style emphasized or highlighted your male gender markers.

Overall build.

Many of us have nice legs.

Not me... My legs are very bulky as well no hips along with the broad shoulders and big hands.

That said, at my current age it does not matter so much.

- Karen

[Maid Marion]

Overall build.

Not me... My legs are very bulky as well no hips along with the broad shoulders and big hands

The Inverted Triangle body type. Very common here.  Not so with GGs.
Which means the usual fashions for GGs don't work so well.

A white pleated skirt would bulk up those hips. Perhaps pair with a dark colored top.
Maybe a beige nail polish that is feminine but not something that would draw the eye.

https://www.landsend.co.uk/article/co/how-to-dress-the-inverted-triangle-body-shape.html#:~:text=What%20exactly%20is%20it%3F,is%20wider%20than%20your%20hips.
When you're trying to draw the eye away from your shoulders, you'll want to consider the necklines of your tops. With an inverted triangle body shape, you should avoid wide and low necklines. That includes styles like boat necks, V-necks, and plunging necklines. Women's crewneck tops and button-downs will be your new go-to.

[ChrissyRyan]

We do have many style options for our clothing.  Some cuts/styles/necklines simply do not look good for some of us.  If you go shopping with another woman, she can be honest and helpful with her comments on if an outfit you like looks nice on you.

Chrissy