Planet Fitness drops member after gender identity complaint (TW: Misgendering)

[ImagineKate]

Not sure how that would be bad for us? "Man enters ladies room, transgender community to blame" doesn't make a very believable story.

Hugs, Devlyn

It would encourage other establishments (or even pf itself) to possibly cave and enact restrictive, rigid gender separation policies.

It reminds me of those folks who openly carried AR15s to Starbucks. Yes, I get that it is legal in many states and it should be your right, and starbucks said it abides by local laws.  However it was honestly truly scaring people, and starbucks as a private business decided to make a blanket statement to "please do not bring any firearms to our stores" which would also include concealed weapons which were previously OK and because they were concealed really bothered no one.

[BigGuy]

I've read that transgender woman in question came forward and she assumes it was her this lady was complaining about.  She lives as a woman.  If the other woman was complaining about someone faking being trans, I'd like to know the truth.

But Planet Fitness has said this woman lost her membership not because she complained once, but because she came back every day to complain and tell anyone who would listen about the "man" in the women's locker room.  She was creating a disturbance.

Oh wow! Why, already knowing this is a trans woman, would someone make a disturbance out of it? If she isn't intentionally harming anyone and just wants to hang up her stuff in the locker room...let her be. Especially if you see her all the time at the gym and know she is living her life as any other woman. She is already having a hard enough time! I don't understand people. The other woman claimed that she supports transgender people too...what lies. You never know what to believe in the media, though. We can't get the full true story

[Michelle G]

The comments on our local news stations FB post about this has some very very negative comments as usual and most are really hard to read. Thankfully there are a bunch of supporters and people who are defending the fitness place for doing what they did.

[mrs izzy]

I looked the topic for now.

we are not ways judge,  jury and execution with half facts.

Speculations are fine but drawing conclusions and blaming not so much.

No one was there so it's all hear say. 

Relax and think before posting please.  I also merged with other same topics

Thank you.

If you have any comments use the report to moderator.

[ImagineKate]

I think this trans woman gives trans a bad name. I am sorry but if you do not pass fairly well you do not belong in a changing room or maybe even a bathroom. In my in-between stage I would avoid bathrooms at all cost and I definitely would not go to a communal changing room....and I was being referred to as female quite regularly.

I kind of disagree with this because some people will never pass and some will always seem "obvious" even though they are beautiful.

Take Laverne Cox for example. She is very beautiful but even without knowing her history you can probably tell she is trans. Her voice and her face (a little bit) clocks her. That said, she is still stunning and I would kill to be that beautiful, but unfortunately T damage has taken its toll.

Not everyone can afford FFS and I don't plan on it for now.

Besides there is really no objective standard for what constitutes feminine looking and what constitutes masculine looking.

I would say that even if someone makes a sincere try they should not be hassled.

There is also RLE which is an important step for many trans women.

And yes I used to avoid the bathrooms but not anymore. I do avoid the locker rooms at the gym at work. I can't use the men's due to boobs and I won't use the women's because I feel I don't pass. So what's a girl to do?

[ReDucks]

The comments from our community demonizing the trans woman for not being female enough, not passing well enough, or being an antagonist who uses the letter of the law to do something that causes such a controversy that stronger laws are passed fly in the face of our 'big umbrella' approach. 

Look at it this way, if you are transitioning, how do you make it from (in this case MtF) being a man to being a woman?  Do you hide in your basement until you 'pass well enough'?  Of course we all went through phases where we looked more male than female on our way, but we need protections that keep us from being arrested as perverts and fetishists while we are in transition.  If we have those protections, who is to say someone who is a TV isn't also protected?  How about non-ops, do they  never get to use a women's restroom?  Think about it!

Many of us grew up with the stigma that we were mentally ill or perverts who had no right (or rights) to be alive.  For me, being a transsexual (post op) it was hard to grasp that someone would want to go part way and stop.  Over the past months being on this board I have realized the error of my thinking and realize now that we are all on our own journey.  Sometimes we start out to go all the way but end up stuck, sometimes we find ourselves in a better place than we imagined and we stay.  Sometimes we wander back and forth trying to find that place where we are happiest.  Sometimes we make it all the way to our dreams.  No matter what our destination, we deserve to be allowed to become who we are, and protected from those who would end us just for being different.  If others who don't identify as binary get protected as well, then who are we to judge? 

All who wander are not lost

[ThePhoenix]

It really disturbs me to see some trans* people in this thread criticizing others for using facilities (both bathrooms and locker rooms) when they do not pass. 

Consider this:

Passing has a lot to do with luck.  Some people will never pass, no matter what. 

Peeing, on the other hand, is universal.  Everyone has to do it, no matter whether they pass or not.

I do encourage people to use caution in public restrooms when not passing.  That is not because there is anything wrong with them.  It's because other people in the public are ignorant, they fear what they don't understand, and they are too prone to violence.

I have personally escorted non-passable trans* people into the ladies room and it was scary even for me.  But yet they still had to pee and the ladies was the least unsafe room to do it in.

I personally ended up using the ladies room for the first time in my transition when I was at a Denny's and had a sudden, urgent need to go immediately.  I realized I couldn't make it out the door and to home, so I ducked into the ladies. 

The way public restrooms are generally arranged is not ideal for many people.  But folks gotta do the best they can with the situation as it exists, you know?

[Beverly]

Transgender woman defends using the women's locker room at Planet Fitness after a fellow gym-goer was thrown out for complaining about 'man' in the ladies room

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2985579/Transgender-woman-believes-s-center-Planet-Fitness-policy-controversy-says-used-women-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

By Kelly Mclaughlin For Dailymail.com

Published: 17:34 EST, 8 March 2015

A transgender woman who believes she was unexpectedly the focus of a Planet Fitness policy controversy said that she has only used the gym's female locker room on two occasions.

Carlotta Sklodowska came forward today after Michigan mom Yvette Cormier made headlines for having her gym membership instantly revoked when she complained about a transgender woman using the female locker room.

Sklodowska now claims that she believes she is the transgender woman Cormier saw and that she had only used the changing area on two separate visits to hang her purse and coat and to pick up her items after working out.

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And now.... in colour....

Edited to fit news formatting guidelines

[ImagineKate]

And now.... in colour....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2985579/Transgender-woman-believes-s-center-Planet-Fitness-policy-controversy-says-used-women-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

Thanks.

I suspected this all along. A trans woman who doesn't pass but has obvious boobs (not a requirement to be trans) and dresses feminine. PF was 100% correct on this one.

[suzifrommd]

Besides there is really no objective standard for what constitutes feminine looking and what constitutes masculine looking.

You are so right.

And that's really the very heart of the matter. Planet Fitness and anyone else who maintains single-sex changing rooms is in something of a bind. If they don't allow us into women's changing rooms, they are running afoul of anti-discrimination law, but if they do, they need to let ALL of us in, even those whose features are still or perpetually male. You simply can't say, like one of the earlier posts, that if you look too much like a man, don't go in. There is no dividing line.

I think this is one of those things, perhaps like gay marriage, where people are just going to have to accept that people with a masculine appearance are going to use female changing spaces, and everyone is going to have to get used to it.

[Beverly]

One small pedantic point. The photograph shown is NOT a locker room where women run around in various states of undress. It looks like where you wash your hands and is no more private than the street outside. Women are fully dressed in this area

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/08/266E14C800000578-0-image-a-45_1425789777375.jpg

This is a locker room

http://www.bonartstudio.com/adm/menu_pictures/gl399Girls_Locker_Room.jpg

[suzifrommd]

Transgender woman defends using the women's locker room at Planet Fitness after a fellow gym-goer was thrown out for complaining about 'man' in the ladies room

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2985579/Transgender-woman-believes-s-center-Planet-Fitness-policy-controversy-says-used-women-s-locker-room-twice-hang-coat-purse.html

By Kelly Mclaughlin For Dailymail.com

Published: 17:34 EST, 8 March 2015

A transgender woman who believes she was unexpectedly the focus of a Planet Fitness policy controversy said that she has only used the gym's female locker room on two occasions.

Carlotta Sklodowska came forward today after Michigan mom Yvette Cormier made headlines for having her gym membership instantly revoked when she complained about a transgender woman using the female locker room.

Sklodowska now claims that she believes she is the transgender woman Cormier saw and that she had only used the changing area on two separate visits to hang her purse and coat and to pick up her items after working out.

=========
And now.... in colour....

Edited to fit news formatting guidelines

This is a much more balanced report. Thanks for posting it.

[Myarkstir]

Gym Stands Up For Trans Woman, Kicks Out Member Who Wouldn't Stop Complaining

By Zack Ford, Mar. 9, 2015

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/09/3631333/a-transgender-woman-went-to-the-gym-and-nothing-happened/

Carlotta Sklodowska went to the Midland, Michigan Planet Fitness twice. She wore leggings and a baggy t-shirt to work out in, which she admits don't hide her masculine body structure very well. Her only use for the locker room was to hang up her coat and purse while she exercised. As far as Sklodowska knows, she is the only transgender woman in her community, and that's why she assumes she is the individual who sparked another gym-user's outrage in recent weeks.

===================
Includes official statement by Planet Fitness

[Allison_andrea]

I will say that in my opinion that this is one of those pieces that is highly taken out of context. This is a perfect example of the old game where one person says something and it gets repeated down the line. It is hard to truly know what happened outside of those who were there, this is mostly aimed at the media. I am a 6' tall MtF and I am in no way a cute 150 pounds. I am in the beginning stages of the transition and this means I am most likely not passable by many eyes. the media has allowed people to speak and give there view point on a subject that none of them have true knowledge on. In the report on the video the one lady makes the comment on the transgender person being strong and it brings a risk issue. In all my understandings when HRT comes into place the muscle/strength begins to lessen, this meaning that the ability to over take is not truly a real factor. As mentioned by Bigman, if Buck Angel was to be required to use the women's locker room, I could guarantee that they would scream a guy is in here, and in my opinion he is much more masculine than the majority of us in the early stages of transition.

I will actually say that after finding out about this with Planet Fitness, I have seriously thought of getting a membership there as one of my big worries as I transition was how can I find a gym I can go to and begin getting healthier where I am afraid of what others will see or say. I truly feel that the media once again has made this something it should not be.

I will also say that it is more of a risk for a transwoman to enter a male locker room.

[aleon515]

Yes, I read an expanded version of the story and apparently the person did NOT get kicked out for complaining, but she went to the point of going around to all the women she could find warning them of this transwoman who was in the locker room. So what she was kicked out for was basically making a trans person feel unwelcome.

The PF in question has lockable individual stalls and individual private showers. The woman apparently came and picked up her coat and purse, and that's pretty much it. There was absolutely no issue with this at all, and there were no other complaints about the trans woman.

I disagree with one of the fellow trans guy writing here. But I find the policy wording a little odd. Perhaps they need a trans group to help them with it? But no, the woman was a trans woman, not a peeping tom or something, but she's she's not very passing. I have seen this in comments section, and it is the same person posting with various aliases but she always posts the same thing. I also believe that trans guys are usually (and there are exceptions to this one) in no danger at all in public restrooms and so forth, even if they are not extremely masculine looking. Men rarely look at other guys in the restroom. Almost all these policies are discriminatory (not PF) basically to trans women because this is more of a sexist thing. In fact, usually people don't think we exist.

Still there are non-trans people that this policy is good for. For instance, butch lesbians. 
In my experience there are very many masculine women in the world, and I have mistaken some of them with trans guys (not aloud just in my head).

I'd love to do one of those photo shoots of a muscly trans guy going into the woman's bathroom. Sadly I am not one of those muscly trans guys.


--Jay

[Jenna Marie]

I was going to mention butch cis women (not all of whom are lesbians, even). I've never been challenged in a bathroom or locker room... but I have several friends who have been, and all are cis and masculine-looking. Heck, one of my college friends grew her hair long b/c she was tired of being yelled at in bathrooms. The assumption that banning anybody who "looks like a man" will keep out trans women is incorrect in addition to being bigoted; what will happen instead is that anyone who doesn't meet the arbitrary standard, *including* people who are not trans, will be rejected, while unremarkable trans women will still be welcomed.

Heck, the woman in the article assumes she's the person in question because she doesn't know of any other trans female members of the gym, but what if she's NOT?! What if the complainer was objecting to a cis woman? I totally agree that regardless of the validity of her complaint - and I think she has zero grounds, to be clear - she was apparently creating far more of a disruption than the woman she was so upset about. Even if PF merely had a "don't upset the other members" policy, she'd be in violation. (That said, I think their actual policy is fantastic and their actions here have 100% backed up their statement of unqualified acceptance.)

Last month I went to a hockey game and shared a bathroom with someone who looked like a clean-shaven stockily built man, and statistically it was probably a cis woman (since there are butch trans women but they're quite rare compared to the overall cis female population). I didn't have a problem with it, and neither did anybody else, and we all got to pee in peace.

[aleon515]

@Jenna Marie, you make a good point. It's "conventional femininity" that they are worried about. Many women don't fit this. I have friends who are trans men now, but actually had a LOT of trouble in restrooms when they were using women's restrooms because they were, at the time, butch lesbians. A couple of the laws have sort of bounty system, which seems to ask for people to police restrooms. I can't think of a more unsafe situation for a lot of people, not just trans people.

It seems like the woman at PF was probably the trans woman who identified herself, at least it seems likely, but it *could* have been a cis woman.

I think PF has the right policy, though I agree it is somewhat weirdly written.


--Jay

[michelle82]

The woman is now suing PF for $25,000 because of the companies refusal to discriminate against this trans woman. This country is so F'd up.

[Eva Marie]

I imagine she had to sign a contract acknowledging the conditions of membership and her lawsuit will get thrown out when the contract is presented as evidence in court.

[mrs izzy]

As I said early in this media blitz it was about $$$.

Nothing more or less.

The Trans* client did noting predator.

Sad part she will be paid I bet out of court settlement.

Will she will plede religious rights.

Again ty Supreme Court.