I'm Confident in Myself, but the World Brings me Down

[Jasper93]

Hi all,

So, I'm MTF, and I'm transitioning here at my university.  Since my university is very populous, and I also work in the service industry here as a part-time job, I deal with a lot of people.  So, I get the privilege of learning about how the world perceives me, and more often than not, I absolutely hate it.

The thing is -- since commencing my transition, I've become super, super confident in myself, and I love it a lot.  I look in the mirror a dozen times a day and just smile because what I see is essentially a girl looking back at me.  i want to stress that I really like how the hormones are affecting me all over, yet this confidence is entirely broken by the end of the day because I'm "sir'd", "bro'd", and "man'd" at least once every day.  It really makes me question whether or not I even have reason to be confident in myself yet.  Has anyone shared this experience?

If so, I could use your advice because it's pretty hard to deal with.  I also want to mention that I don't present as female yet, but I mean, a lot of females could present as I do and would get gendered correctly, so it's pretty hurtful.

Thanks,

Alison

[ImagineKate]

In my experience two things get me clocked:

1. Any hint of facial hair shadow
2. Voice

And it's usually 1 and 2 in combination that clicks in people's heads.

1. Is being fixed with laser and temporarily fixed with makeup
2. Is being fixed with surgery and training.

So yeah I should have fewer problems once I get those taken care of plus some time on HRT.

[Squircle]

In the early days of my transition, on a couple of occasions, I got people making a real point of addressing me with male pronouns, which really hurt.

Thing is though, and I say this without knowing what you look like and how you dress, if you aren't presenting as female then you have to kind of expect that people will gender you male. There are a lot of cis women who can and do get gendered male depending on how they dress. But being completely honest, there aren't many of us that would have passed as female in the earlier stages of transition without making any effort, so don't take these incidents to heart too much. Have you spent much time presenting as female? If so on those days did people gender you differently?

[Sammy]

Just a couple of points. Firstly, five months on hormones are just the beginning. Good changes are ahead .
Second, and You may not like this - Your signature says that You are presenting as male. There can be many reasons for this and I would be the very last person to criticise You (cause I present andro as well), but... and this was something which my bff recently said. When people are unsure, they are looking for gender cues and outfit comes first. So, if they see someone they have difficulty to gender, they would look how that person is dressed. If You present male, then You should be expecting to be "sir'ed". If You will have longer hair and bewbs and will present as male, then You very much might be "sir'ed" too. A month ago I had to endure whole day in powersuit - guess what? I was never gendered as female and nobody gave me a double-take in male restroom (which happens a lot when I am dressed andro) - I am almost 22 months on hormones, but when I present as a guy, I can pass as one. When I dress andro (people can't really guess my gender) they would go back for other cues like softer skin, lack of facial hair, etc etc etc, and most often they gender me female.
I hope this might help a tiny bit...

[Jasper93]

In my experience two things get me clocked:

1. Any hint of facial hair shadow
2. Voice

And it's usually 1 and 2 in combination that clicks in people's heads.

1. Is being fixed with laser and temporarily fixed with makeup
2. Is being fixed with surgery and training.

So yeah I should have fewer problems once I get those taken care of plus some time on HRT.

Thanks for your input.  So, about the facial hair, I don't have any shadow at all, and that was one of the things that was naturally more feminine about me pre-transition and a contributing factor to my belief that I'd enjoy living as female more than having to try to live up to expectations as male that I could never meet.  The same concept holds true for my voice; I hit puberty at 12, and then I stopped growing taller while my voice stayed the same.  I don't alter it any, and this is a YouTube video of me talking so that you can get a grasp of where my voice naturally sits.



I think maybe it's the voice that outs me, but the thing is: I got gendered correctly at 3 months, and it entailed a conversation in which the other person still thought I was female.  The same exact thing happened at four months. 

It's just aggravating and sometimes depressing.  Even though I've been explicitly gendered correctly a couple dozen times, that pales in comparison to how many times the opposite happens.  Heck, people don't even fully glimpse at me, and they sense that I'm male -- say if I'm just waiting in line to order food at a restaurant....

[Jasper93]

In the early days of my transition, on a couple of occasions, I got people making a real point of addressing me with male pronouns, which really hurt.

Thing is though, and I say this without knowing what you look like and how you dress, if you aren't presenting as female then you have to kind of expect that people will gender you male. There are a lot of cis women who can and do get gendered male depending on how they dress. But being completely honest, there aren't many of us that would have passed as female in the earlier stages of transition without making any effort, so don't take these incidents to heart too much. Have you spent much time presenting as female? If so on those days did people gender you differently?

Thanks for your advice.  In regards to your first statement, I've told a lot of people here at my university about my transition, and all of them claim to be accepting.  Yet all of these people still call me "sir", "bro", and all of that, and say that it's hard not to do because it just "comes out".  These people are supposedly my friends.  And at the same time, there's this guy on my residence hall floor who is bigger than probably only one "guy" living there (me), and every time I see him, he calls me "bro" at the end of like every sentence, and it really comes across as him making a point that he won't see me as who I am.  I even had a doctor's visit where the freaking doctor knew I was transgender, yet he called me "man" really consistently...  It hurt.

I've been gendered correctly a couple dozen times explicitly, and I've had guys let me enter buildings ahead of them as they hold the door open, but again, this stuff is rare, which is bothersome.  The closest I've come to presenting is wearing really skinny jeans, and I eventually got to the point that I'd wear skinny jeans every day.  Other than that, I just wear this coat around that looks pretty feminine even though it's made for males.

Also, you mentioned that you said that without knowing how I look, and it made me realize that my old picture probably made people feel like they were talking to a figure.  I changed my profile picture, and there's a video of me that I posted in this thread as well.  I just really want to be seen as female 100% of the time; it's almost traumatizing being seen as male as much as I am when I'm internally female...

[Jasper93]

Just a couple of points. Firstly, five months on hormones are just the beginning. Good changes are ahead .
Second, and You may not like this - Your signature says that You are presenting as male. There can be many reasons for this and I would be the very last person to criticise You (cause I present andro as well), but... and this was something which my bff recently said. When people are unsure, they are looking for gender cues and outfit comes first. So, if they see someone they have difficulty to gender, they would look how that person is dressed. If You present male, then You should be expecting to be "sir'ed". If You will have longer hair and bewbs and will present as male, then You very much might be "sir'ed" too. A month ago I had to endure whole day in powersuit - guess what? I was never gendered as female and nobody gave me a double-take in male restroom (which happens a lot when I am dressed andro) - I am almost 22 months on hormones, but when I present as a guy, I can pass as one. When I dress andro (people can't really guess my gender) they would go back for other cues like softer skin, lack of facial hair, etc etc etc, and most often they gender me female.
I hope this might help a tiny bit...

Thanks for your input.  So, I present as male because I live in a male floor in my residence hall.  I do room alone, but presenting as female would spell disaster.  The good news is that next school year, I'll be living on this new floor set up specially for transgender/gender-queer people, so I'll get to be who I am.

I thought about the outfit thing, but at the same time, I present pretty neutral.  I think my hair throws people off, though, because it's essentially a bowl cut at the moment.

In regards to the cues you've mentioned, I actually have prominent enough breasts that people will ask me about them.  I mean, they protrude pretty far; the gland part of them is like 3.5 inches in diameter.  Even had an advisor ask about it once.... So embarrassing.  More about the cues, I get "gendered" as a 15-year-old male frequently because of my skin (I have some really crazy stories over this), which is kind of reassuring I guess.  But at the same time, I'm still skinny, even in the face.  I have female-looking cheeks, but only if I smile.  Maybe this will elucidate some of my situation a bit.  I really want to get it fixed; and again, I'm generally confident about myself, but the freaking world makes me feel as though I have no reason to be!

[Jasper93]

Btw, here are other pictures for reference.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206330925616172&set=a.10200308395576685.197913.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206321224413648&set=a.1610574508417.81878.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206314031073819&set=t.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/backdoorbloomington/photos/ms.c.eJwtytENACAIA9GNDBYLdP~;FRMPnuxwlT7CiwuRcbAtO2wKEMbuAYTWOfKZ8nPr~;qQuNehBO.bps.t.1357874117/599372586860935/?type=1&theater&viewas=100000686899395

See? Maybe you can tell that I like where I'm heading, and so I face the world at the beginning of each day with my head held high, but the world inevitably knocks me down due to seeing me as male.  Also, I'm not tall or anything.  I'm like 5 ft. 9 -- maybe 5 ft. 10?  Help!

[Seemenow]

Btw, here are other pictures for reference.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206330925616172&set=a.10200308395576685.197913.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206321224413648&set=a.1610574508417.81878.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206314031073819&set=t.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/backdoorbloomington/photos/ms.c.eJwtytENACAIA9GNDBYLdP~;FRMPnuxwlT7CiwuRcbAtO2wKEMbuAYTWOfKZ8nPr~;qQuNehBO.bps.t.1357874117/599372586860935/?type=1&theater&viewas=100000686899395

See? Maybe you can tell that I like where I'm heading, and so I face the world at the beginning of each day with my head held high, but the world inevitably knocks me down due to seeing me as male.  Also, I'm not tall or anything.  I'm like 5 ft. 9 -- maybe 5 ft. 10?  Help!

Honestly, the world will see you as male as long as you are presenting as male, esp ppl who have known you pre transition. If you want to be seen as female, youre going to have to present as female. Ppl dont know what you feel inside. You can grow your hair out and get extensions until it gets longer, or style your natural hair to look more feminine. You can also start wearing clothes that are made for women...not andro mens clothes. Your name on fb is still your birth name. Change it to what you want to be called. Even if ppl know you are trans they will still gender you as male if thats what youre giving them. Im 6'3 but Im still gendered female because my presentation is female. Ppl cant read your mind! Present yourself as you want to be seen and dont let living on a male floor hold you back!!

[StrykerXIII]

You can't let what the world thinks of you bring you down. You gotta get out there and fight, girl. Be loud, be proud, be beautiful, be you. At the end of the day, who's in that bed with you? Cause that's the only opinion that matters.

[Squircle]

Even with people who know you are transgender, as long as you are presenting as male then they will continue to refer to you like that. You have a lot going for you looks wise and you'll most likely have a very successful transition, but the people around you aren't going to be able to magically change how they perceive you based just on what you've told them.

If you want to be treated as a woman in this society then you have to start living as one. Transition is hard and involves a lot of work and effort to get where you want to be. I went full time way before hormones and have put serious amounts of time into my appearance and my voice. You have a better starting point than I did so there's no doubt in my mind that you will look great but right now if I saw you in the street I would gender you as male because that's how you present. It's very difficult for people, especially those that have known you for a good while, to change their perception of you with no shift in how you dress, act and sound.

Just give it a go, have a night out as a woman. You've come out to everyone which is one of the hardest parts, so start enjoying it!

[Wild Flower]

Honestly, the world will see you as male as long as you are presenting as male, esp ppl who have known you pre transition. If you want to be seen as female, youre going to have to present as female. Ppl dont know what you feel inside. You can grow your hair out and get extensions until it gets longer, or style your natural hair to look more feminine. You can also start wearing clothes that are made for women...not andro mens clothes. Your name on fb is still your birth name. Change it to what you want to be called. Even if ppl know you are trans they will still gender you as male if thats what youre giving them. Im 6'3 but Im still gendered female because my presentation is female. Ppl cant read your mind! Present yourself as you want to be seen and dont let living on a male floor hold you back!!

Thats not true.

I had  people sense Im a woman enough times in my life. Its not out right youre a woman.... but like "youre the only person that makes me feel like my girlfriend makes me feel". You look like a girl. I had men giving me gifts in public. I had guys telling me In feminine. But my gawd... i felt like a hottie at this time because men were into me. All i did was make myself pretty in guy mode. But it was glamour....

Although... its not happening as much these days... because I present myself as a hardcore masculine dude. Shave head and all. Why do i go masculine.... because im depressed as hell.

[Wild Flower]

Btw, here are other pictures for reference.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206330925616172&set=a.10200308395576685.197913.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206321224413648&set=a.1610574508417.81878.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206314031073819&set=t.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/backdoorbloomington/photos/ms.c.eJwtytENACAIA9GNDBYLdP~;FRMPnuxwlT7CiwuRcbAtO2wKEMbuAYTWOfKZ8nPr~;qQuNehBO.bps.t.1357874117/599372586860935/?type=1&theater&viewas=100000686899395

See? Maybe you can tell that I like where I'm heading, and so I face the world at the beginning of each day with my head held high, but the world inevitably knocks me down due to seeing me as male.  Also, I'm not tall or anything.  I'm like 5 ft. 9 -- maybe 5 ft. 10?  Help!

Damn... is that you when your bald?

Youre very passable lookwise but voice changes it... but your pretty.

[Seemenow]

All i did was make myself pretty in guy mode. Athough... its not happening as much these days... because I present myself as a hardcore masculine dude.

You said it yourself...

And tbh when it comes to dating, some guys will treat anyone in a dress as a woman (not saying thats you). Getting everyone else to treat you as a woman is different and requires more effort.

[Jasper93]

Damn... is that you when your bald?

Youre very passable lookwise but voice changes it... but your pretty.

Thanks so much!  By "bald", do you mean without presenting?  Because -- yes -- I'm not presenting whatsoever in any of the pictures except that I'm clean-shaven.  Your compliment means a lot; I'll just have to learn to alter my voice.  I can get it to go pretty high, but god does it hurt.  I guess that's where training comes in.

[Jasper93]

Even with people who know you are transgender, as long as you are presenting as male then they will continue to refer to you like that. You have a lot going for you looks wise and you'll most likely have a very successful transition, but the people around you aren't going to be able to magically change how they perceive you based just on what you've told them.

If you want to be treated as a woman in this society then you have to start living as one. Transition is hard and involves a lot of work and effort to get where you want to be. I went full time way before hormones and have put serious amounts of time into my appearance and my voice. You have a better starting point than I did so there's no doubt in my mind that you will look great but right now if I saw you in the street I would gender you as male because that's how you present. It's very difficult for people, especially those that have known you for a good while, to change their perception of you with no shift in how you dress, act and sound.

Just give it a go, have a night out as a woman. You've come out to everyone which is one of the hardest parts, so start enjoying it!

I think you're right about the perception thing.  I suppose I'll have to start full-on acting like a woman for people who know me to really get the idea that I really am female.  And the thing is: I don't even know if I can exactly say that I present as male per se.  I mean, I don't present as female, but it's not like I have a buzz cut or facial hair either.  This is the stuff that makes me second guess my progress.  I think one of my first steps is actually altering my voice.  I don't think people who know me even perceive me f as feminine enough to be a gay guy; everyone just sees me as a "bro" who has some issues or whatever.  Very stressful.  And I kind of hold back in acting like who I really am because I'm scared of putting people who have known me for so long in an awkward position.

[Jasper93]

Honestly, the world will see you as male as long as you are presenting as male, esp ppl who have known you pre transition. If you want to be seen as female, youre going to have to present as female. Ppl dont know what you feel inside. You can grow your hair out and get extensions until it gets longer, or style your natural hair to look more feminine. You can also start wearing clothes that are made for women...not andro mens clothes. Your name on fb is still your birth name. Change it to what you want to be called. Even if ppl know you are trans they will still gender you as male if thats what youre giving them. Im 6'3 but Im still gendered female because my presentation is female. Ppl cant read your mind! Present yourself as you want to be seen and dont let living on a male floor hold you back!!

I agree with everything you've mentioned.  About my Facebook, my family doesn't really know that I'm intending to change my name, and I have a lot of problems with them in general -- to the point that I'm probably going to just disown the majority of them and start anew before long.  They claim to be supporting of my transition, but they'll critique my looks a lot, and have even said that going out in public dressed as female would cause me problems.  I guess it's good that they're trying to help, but it is so stressful to feel like I have to hold back from being myself just so that they're comfortable.  I think, once I'm independent (which is really hard for me to do because I'm in college), I'm legitimately going to block most of them from my Facebook, change my name on there, speak as a female 24/7, and actually dress as a female.  Not being able to do all of this causes me so much stress, and so I get to tolerate the world seeing me as male, and it just torments the hell out of me every day...

[ImagineKate]

Thanks for your input.  So, about the facial hair, I don't have any shadow at all, and that was one of the things that was naturally more feminine about me pre-transition and a contributing factor to my belief that I'd enjoy living as female more than having to try to live up to expectations as male that I could never meet.  The same concept holds true for my voice; I hit puberty at 12, and then I stopped growing taller while my voice stayed the same.  I don't alter it any, and this is a YouTube video of me talking so that you can get a grasp of where my voice naturally sits.



I think maybe it's the voice that outs me, but the thing is: I got gendered correctly at 3 months, and it entailed a conversation in which the other person still thought I was female.  The same exact thing happened at four months. 

It's just aggravating and sometimes depressing.  Even though I've been explicitly gendered correctly a couple dozen times, that pales in comparison to how many times the opposite happens.  Heck, people don't even fully glimpse at me, and they sense that I'm male -- say if I'm just waiting in line to order food at a restaurant....

I would definitely gender the voice male, sorry to say. For some people it doesn't matter but for most people the way we are wired, the voice can be the "swing vote" if they are doubtful as to whether someone is male or female. I don't even think it's learned behavior either. It seems to be natural and instinctive.

[Seemenow]

I agree with everything you've mentioned.  About my Facebook, my family doesn't really know that I'm intending to change my name, and I have a lot of problems with them in general -- to the point that I'm probably going to just disown the majority of them and start anew before long.  They claim to be supporting of my transition, but they'll critique my looks a lot, and have even said that going out in public dressed as female would cause me problems.  I guess it's good that they're trying to help, but it is so stressful to feel like I have to hold back from being myself just so that they're comfortable.  I think, once I'm independent (which is really hard for me to do because I'm in college), I'm legitimately going to block most of them from my Facebook, change my name on there, speak as a female 24/7, and actually dress as a female.  Not being able to do all of this causes me so much stress, and so I get to tolerate the world seeing me as male, and it just torments the hell out of me every day...

Ugh family can be the worst. Ive let comments and opinions from mine hold me back from transitioning...I finally decided its something I need to do in order to be happy and LIVE. No matter what they say. Ive been "full time" for awhile but reluctant to start.mones or come out as trans. I just started therapy...and I litterally cant wait til the 5 month mark youre at!! Ive been in your position, girl. It sucks but it def wont last once u come out. Good luck!!

[ImagineKate]

Btw, here are other pictures for reference.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206330925616172&set=a.10200308395576685.197913.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206321224413648&set=a.1610574508417.81878.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206314031073819&set=t.1357874117&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/backdoorbloomington/photos/ms.c.eJwtytENACAIA9GNDBYLdP~;FRMPnuxwlT7CiwuRcbAtO2wKEMbuAYTWOfKZ8nPr~;qQuNehBO.bps.t.1357874117/599372586860935/?type=1&theater&viewas=100000686899395

See? Maybe you can tell that I like where I'm heading, and so I face the world at the beginning of each day with my head held high, but the world inevitably knocks me down due to seeing me as male.  Also, I'm not tall or anything.  I'm like 5 ft. 9 -- maybe 5 ft. 10?  Help!

Out of all of those, the only one which really genders "female" (with me) instantly is the second one. The rest can be anywhere from androgynous to male. So I wouldn't be surprised if you do get gendered male by the world, and as I said the voice can be the swing vote.

So maybe your look in pic #2 would help. The glasses help. They seem to be somewhat feminine. Could be camera angle too. It tends to do a lot for your look.

As others have said, clothing styles also push the needle in the M direction. Maybe you should try some feminine clothing and take some pictures and see how it works.