VFS Concern

[ImagineKate]

That was my tired voice though.

My normal voice has little of it.

[Melissa Forever]

I heard back from Yeson and my fundamental frequency is 145hz. I am so relieved and am in the process of booking the surgery now! Jesse mentioned that Dr. Kim noticed a vocal tremor, glottal fry, and voice breaks. I will need to get a botox injection. Does anyone know if this has to be done again in the future (as in a semi-regular process)?

I started re-reading Jenny's Yeson thread and there was a post she made that sounded exactly like me. She talked about always having to clear her throat like she had phlegm all the time. It turned out to be part of what was causing the tremors. I always thought it was phlegm or something, but now I wonder if it is the same thing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Dr. Kim is able to fix that as well!

I started doing some Vlogs about my transitions yesterday and I hate the way my voice sounds (obviously), but noticed I am feminizing really well at this point. I had the sudden realization that I might pass once my voice changes. Just... so... excited!

Melissa

[anjaq]

Cool - I dont know your Vlogs, but why would you not pass. Voice is a biggie though - besides face and maybe boobs the most important gender marker people will notice right away.

I am not suprised at his diagnosis - hehe, I seem to develop an "ear" for that, especially the vocal fra was quite obvious and the breaks as well. The tremor seems to be something all transwomen have, at least according to Dr Kim. Unless you are a singer who has learned very good control of the voice maybe.

I read up a bit on that issue and also his diagnosis. It is "Spasmodic dysphonia" or "focal laryngeal dystonia" - check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spasmodic_dysphonia for an overview. There are more medical pages on thsi like http://www.dystonia.org.uk/index.php/professional-research/types-of-dystonia/laryngeal-dystonia
Severe cases sound awful, the voices sound squeezed and break all the time. So if this is comparable we seem to have in common to have a mild form of this. Treatment with Botox is advised by the professionals on this , but they also have surgeries where they cut nerves or muscles to reduce the tension and tremor. In severe cases the botox has to be repeated ever 3-4 months.

It is described as a neurological condition.

Now my GUESS is that Dr Kim believes that this issue in our cases is caused by a misuse of the voice, a mismatch between what the brain wants and what the larynx does and what the brain is used to do and what it tries to do - all of this seems to cause issues. So his approach seems to be to treat the symptoms of this for a while - 3-4 months with botox and then again the same time with medication and meanwhile have the surgery heal and the brain adapt to the new voice that should now take less effort to match, so less tension, less mismatch and so on. What he said to me was that the brain should learn how to use the new voice within some months, with vocal exercises and botox in effect, and then also the tremor should subside.

In his therapy, botox is used only 1 or 2 times plus some time on medication. I guess this is possible because it is only a mild form, the severe forms of this dystonia seem not to go away like that.

Oh and yes - misusing the voice, overusing it, forcing or pushing it to something it is not naturally can cause phlegm and neck pain and all kinds of stuff. I had that too, voice therapy helped a bit, my hope is that now after the VFS I will be able to speak relaxed and thus not strain my voice to use the pitch I would like to use.

[barbie]

So I am planning on getting VFS through Yeson. I have all but booked the appointment, which I would like to do in the next couple of days at the latest.

But I have concerns. Not of losing my voice, being injured, or going to Korea. My concern is that my voice may end up too high. I did some resting voice recordings for Yeson and they came back saying my fundamental frequency is 189hz. This is seems wrong to me, but if they are correct, I am worried that with the increase from VFS and then resonance training afterwards, it might end up like Minnie Mouse. When I do analysis through PRAAT, it comes up around 150hz (which has gone up 10-15hz since I starting this process). If my fundamental frequency is  150hz, then I would think I am in the perfect range to get the surgery done.

Any thoughts? Anyone else have this experience? Does anyone have a link or a voice sample to someone who has a 150 or 180 fundamental frequency?

Melissa

Melissa,

Please let me know any question or other things that I can help with. I will reply in this thread, and other people may get some info on visiting Seoul, too.

Asian dust tends to be severe in April. April weather is unpredictable in Seoul, sometimes can be windy and chilly, other times can be like summer. You may look weekly weather forecast just before your departure to Seoul.

Cheers!

barbie~~

[Melissa Forever]

Anjaq - My vlogs are not on youtube, but I might consider it down the road. They are mostly for me to see how I have progressed, to keep track of how I am feeling, and so my son knows what i was like when he was young. I feel I do not pass yet simply because the hormones have not softened my features enough, my voice is not feminine enough, and my mannerisms are still very masculine. Living a double life certainly doesn't help with that at all. Only a few more weeks till I am out to everyone at my work. I am glad that we both thought I was more in the 140-150 hz range and you were very spot on regarding my vocal issues.

Barbie - Thanks so much for the help. I am super excited to travel there and see a different culture.

Melissa

[anjaq]

Ah I understand that - private Vlogging - I wonder if your son will ever see it? Is he ok with all of this? How young is he? My family does not really want me to explain how I feel - They tell me they accepted what I do and that I am who I am now and that seems to have to do. They dont want to know more.

Well - hormones take a while and also they need to be of the right composition and application and dosage to do their work in the best way. I gained a lot from switching hormones after 13 years of the same stuff.

Mannerisms - ok, thats odd. Do yoou have to pretend to be male a lot? I kind of could not do that anymore once I came out. It felt all fake and wrong and I could not even make it work anymore. So i dropped it. And I started to "pass" without any hormones. But voice was still a big bugger back then for me.  There were no surgeries for that though. So you are in a way lucky you transition now, as you have all those opportunities to get a good voice surgery and all of that. Good luck on coming out at work - so you will come out there and then soon after be off for VFS? The no speaking for a month after VFS is really annoying in respect to work. And I dont expect to be very good in talking in the second month either. So it is a bit of a strain on my work, but it works somehow.

So waiting time currently is about 4 months I think, so you would be there in the midst of summer... I hear it can be very hot and humid there at that time, so bring light dresses and get a room with a good air conditioning that is not blowing the cold air at you - you dont want to get a cold or dry air in the room.

We always put up wettened towels in the room to dry and humidify the air.

[Melissa Forever]

Hey anjaq,

My son is 22 months. Just a little guy. He likely wont remember the old me, so i thought it would be nice to have some pictures and a few recordings directed to him so that he could see what I use to look like (if he is interested). My family is behind me 100% and I just let my ex-wife know my transition plan. She wasn't hostile when I told her, just want to make sure my son will be ok. We are starting to work on that process and will be seeing a child psychologist to get a better feel for what we should expect long term.

My dose is actually in a perfect spot right now according to my Dr. and I would agree with him simply because I am seeing lots of changes happening now. The first 6 months had me with zero increase in estrogen (in the average male range), but steadily decreasing testosterone. Now everything is within female averages.

I know what you mean about faking it. I don't really hold myself back anymore (even though I am not out to everyone at work) and will comment and engage in talking about female things. I think there are somethings I need to unlearn, but they will only happen until I am full time and in social situations with other women. I am definitely not the girliest girl when it comes to mannerisms.

Now that I am out to my ex, I am not worried about her stumbling across my posts. I have uploaded an avatar picture, so you can have a bit better idea of what I am working with

Melissa

[anjaq]

I think your avatar picture looks pretty good already - but I imagine it will get better. Hormones are tricky. the most important measure is your wellbeeing and your rate of feminization. And this means sometimes breaking with doctors recommendations (e.g. a lot of people are happier and feel better and feminized better by refusing to take the androcur). But thats a different topic. I wish you the best on your coming out at work plans. And yes of course, mannerisms are important, body language and all that. One has to let go of the fake stuff and just be oneself... one can be surprised how femme that one comes out

[ImagineKate]

I have 3 x 4 year olds and they will probably remember the old me as I remembered my dad at that age.

The phlegm thing makes sense too for me. I don't have to clear my throat very often, maybe about once an hour. I wouldn't be surprised if there was asymmetry though.

They told me my Fo (133Hz) but did not mention anything else. I may still have to get the botox like practically everyone else as I could hear the tremor. I have a bit of fry only when I'm tired though. They asked for a second recording actually this time with some free talking. I hope it's not bad news.

[Melissa Forever]

Thanks anjaq. I feel like I am in a really good place right now in terms of my physical changes and it is very encouraging to know that there is still lots of time for growth. 9 months is pretty early in the grand scheme of things. I have my good days and bad days just like everyone else, but I can always see the cute girl in the mirror. I can't really ask for much more than that.

I forgot to respond mention that I will have 1 month off from work during the period where I cannot speak, so that will make things much less stressful. I will likely be doing work during that time, but it will be all through email. I had been saving my holidays for just such an occasion

[Melissa Forever]

I have 3 x 4 year olds and they will probably remember the old me as I remembered my dad at that age.

The phlegm thing makes sense too for me. I don't have to clear my throat very often, maybe about once an hour. I wouldn't be surprised if there was asymmetry though.

They told me my Fo (133Hz) but did not mention anything else. I may still have to get the botox like practically everyone else as I could hear the tremor. I have a bit of fry only when I'm tired though. They asked for a second recording actually this time with some free talking. I hope it's not bad news.

ImagineKate - Wow that is amazing, I can't really remember much before 4 years old. When are you looking to go to Yeson?

[ImagineKate]

ImagineKate - Wow that is amazing, I can't really remember much before 4 years old. When are you looking to go to Yeson?

I'm booked for the end of June.

[ImagineKate]

As for when I was 4, I remembered a lot.

My 4th birthday.

[anjaq]

I dont remember much before I was 6 or 7 darn.

Well, taking one month off after surgery makes a lot of sense. or working only by email. I did a bit of work during my time off , which was 3 weeks in total but that included some days before the surgery for the travel , so I am already back at work now for 3 days and still have to wait at least a week before I can say a few sentences a day, which still may not be much.
I was lucky enough to get it on sick leave though and did not have to use vacation for it. It is not a vacation after all, it is a medical procedure neccesary for my health, so I refused to just do this on vacation time and then have no more free days for the rest of the year to rest and relax.

[Melissa Forever]

I am hoping I can do the same thing anjaq, but if I have to use vacation time I will (as a last resort).

So my surgery is officially booked and you are not going to believe the date... April 30. Jesse had an even earlier option of April 7, but that is just too short notice. I still need to renew my passport.

I am so very excited! It is real now!

[ImagineKate]

Not bad! I wanted one in June anyway but when I booked they said 3-4 months out, guess you picked up someone's cancellation or something.

[anjaq]

Yes - I was offered an alternative date in March when I was pondering to cancel my original appointment End of February due to my cold - apparently they have some people cancel their dates occasionally.

[barbie]

I am hoping I can do the same thing anjaq, but if I have to use vacation time I will (as a last resort).

So my surgery is officially booked and you are not going to believe the date... April 30. Jesse had an even earlier option of April 7, but that is just too short notice. I still need to renew my passport.

I am so very excited! It is real now!

My favorite hotel in Seoul is "Noble hotel", as the fare is very cheap. You may find it at hotels.com. It is not a nice hotel, but I would recommend it if you want a very economic room and do not care about the distance to Yeson. The rate is about US$50-70 per night.

Typically the rate of a room is > US$120 per night in Gangnam area. I sometimes stay in Novotel Ambassador Gangnam, a very nice hotel. The rate is ca. $150 per night after special discount, but more than US$180 for ordinary guests.

barbie~~

barbie~~

[anjaq]

But dont feel like you are bound to Gangnam - transportation is really goo so being a few subway stations away is no issue at all for the 3 visits at Yesons. Its not liek you will be there every day - But if you can, avoid getting a hotel where you have to switch subways a lot - ideally not at all. The transfers between subway lines are crazy in Seoul. sometimes it is a 10 minute walk and feels like you walked the whole distance to the next station on the same line

[ReDucks]

I went to the Princess hotel as they are the hotel you can book via Yeson.  80$ US a night, it is a queen bed and a full bath with a TV and small sitting area.  No view, maybe a small window you can use to get fresh air, heat and A/C worked fine.  The rooms are smoking so you will have cigarette smell, and the beds are hard, but overall they are clean and comfortable enough.  There is a fried chicken place across the street, a Starbucks a block away, 2 pho and 1 teriyaki place 2 blocks, a Dominos Pizza 3 blocks, and a little market right next door.  There is also a restaurant in the same building but I went in there twice to eat and they never looked at me or acted like I was even there, so I quit trying.   There are also several other restaurants I didn't try right within a short distance.  The clinic is 5 minute walk away and it is easy to get to and from your appointments.  There is a subway connector near Yeson so it is also just minutes from the Princess.   Yeson will book the room for you if you ask, and I was able to get a ride from Inchon to the hotel when I arrived as part of the package.  I had to pay about 65$ US to get a taxi to the airport when I left.