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Injection Question

Started by Newgirl Dani, February 28, 2015, 07:42:52 PM

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Newgirl Dani

Does anyone happen to know if for whatever reason a person needs to be totally inactive (no walking/bed rest), and injects weekly into the thigh muscle, does the serum estradiol valerate build up in the system?  The other side of the coin being the opposite, lowering once activity begins again?  Not long, say about 3 weeks/3 injections in each direction.

For some reason it just seems to make sense to me, but not known for sure.  Thanks Much,   Dani
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KayXo

All I know is that the body metabolizes and uses the hormone faster if you are more active. Common sense, really. ;)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Newgirl Dani

Quote from: KayXo on February 28, 2015, 07:59:50 PM
All I know is that the body metabolizes and uses the hormone faster if you are more active. Common sense, really. ;)

Yep, that's what I thought, just common sense, but it was something I just happened to think of while I was talking to my surgeon (I'm thinking doctor/surgeon/woman....perfect), she said nope makes 'no' difference.  Me being the cant let something go person and it just lurks there till I ask, I had to get some imput.  Thanks KayXo,   Dani
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Newgirl Dani

Quote from: Newgirl Dani on February 28, 2015, 07:42:52 PM
Does anyone happen to know if for whatever reason a person needs to be totally inactive (no walking/bed rest), and injects weekly into the thigh muscle, does the serum estradiol valerate build up in the system?  The other side of the coin being the opposite, lowering once activity begins again?  Not long, say about 3 weeks/3 injections in each direction.

For some reason it just seems to make sense to me, but not known for sure.  Thanks Much,   Dani

I'm quoting myself here more to keep this visible than anything, and to let others know that any additional information would be highly appreciated.  I am in what one would call an important window of time here during these upcoming three weeks.

Thanks to any who really know or have had acutal value changes due to these actions.  Thanks Again,   Dani
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Steph34

Quote from: KayXo on February 28, 2015, 07:59:50 PM
All I know is that the body metabolizes and uses the hormone faster if you are more active. Common sense, really. ;)

That might be a contraindication to injections for me. I do not want my level to drop to near zero after a few days because my physical activity caused it to be depleted faster than the doctor expected. I will have to mention that concern when I see my doctor on 18/3 as I know she wants to put me on weekly injections since my estradiol level has consistently been too low on topical products and oral E. I do not want to make the problem worse.
Accepted i was transgender December 2008
Started HRT Summer 2014
Name Change Winter 2017
Never underestimate the power of estradiol or the people who have it.
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Rachel

That is a good question. I think I will bring it up with my doctor Monday.
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Nati

I was totally inactive person, desk work 24/7, now i'm very active, HIITs, hiking ect ( 6 days a week for 3 months now ) and in both cases my E levels are same ( i'm on same dosages all that time ).
I don't know if that helps.
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Newgirl Dani

Thanks for the checking with your doctors, I need to have my blood draw on March 16th and for me I'm hoping the complete inactivity due to surgery was the culprit for my high E levels.

To Nati, I was on total bed rest, orders were to lie flat as much as possible, no lifting, no work, no nothing.  This spanned across 2 1/2 injection cycles.  Because I inject into my thigh...well, no muscle movement equals very little blood flow. which I'm certainly hoping gave the rise in levels.  I will know soon.  Just did not want to leave from the 7 day cycle and return to the 10 when I was feeling like I had hit the 'sweet spot', but my doctor asked if I would if the level is still high.

So far in my hrt I have crossed every t and dotted every i imaginable (even some 'not' asked to do) so if that is what I have to do well then that's what I'll do.  Fingers crossed though  :icon_nervious:   Dani
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Newgirl Dani

This is an update for all who were interested in what the outcome might be.  Just got the new levels and I am HAPPY,  my Estradiol is dropping as expected, Prolactin staying level, but what really makes my DAY is my new T level, 9 months ago I started at between 700 and 800 and now it is 15..........YAY!   Dani
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KayXo

Why is dropping Estradiol good news?! On injections, levels also fluctuate quite a bit and on EC especially, the test ignores estradiol cypionate which also affects estrogen receptors, I strongly suspect.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Newgirl Dani

Quote from: KayXo on March 19, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
Why is dropping Estradiol good news?! On injections, levels also fluctuate quite a bit and on EC especially, the test ignores estradiol cypionate which also affects estrogen receptors, I strongly suspect.

The drop is not by much, it lowered from 881pg/ml to 837pg/ml .  This drop is due to my becoming active again after the bedrest following my surgery as I had stated when I started this thread.

As to why I am "HAPPY" well that was entirely because of the T level I got, 15, this is pretty darn good news to me!  The level of Estradiol Valerate being mainly just the consequence of the activity, and 'personally' I would still be content if it had stayed at 881.  Here though is the BUT portion, my doctor stated that she would feel a bit more content with my level if it dropped a little, and had also stated that if it did not she would like to switch my injection cycle from 7 days back to 10 and leave dosage the same.  Now could I have put my foot down and insisted on keeping everything 'exactly' the same?  Yeah I'm sure I could have.  Would she have let me have my way?  Probably.  The only reason being the importance of having a little flexibility (give and take) in the doctor\patient relationship, and not being too rigid.  There can always be time for change if I desire it, and this just fosters the atmosphere for a positive adjustment latter, if needed.   Dani

One last add on:  this last statement does not mean I am relenting on my proactivity, where I am in my hrt is solely due to being proactive and putting 'my' needs as paramount.
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KayXo

Ask your doctor why she would feel more content at a lower level? Why does she feel uncomfortable with these levels when ciswomen all over the world get pregnant, some up to 5-6 times in a lifetime, with levels reaching up to 75,000 pg/ml? Birth rate is certainly not dropping or remaining low due to complications during pregnancy; in fact, quite the opposite and since a looooooooooooooong time, long before medical advances of the 20th-21st century were made.

Explain to her you don't have a uterus like ciswomen. That you aren't taking estradiol orally or Premarin or birth control pills that contain a form of estrogen that is different and that affects the body differently. Tell her the breast cancer rate is VERY low in transsexual women despite quite high doses, especially in the past, much higher than in birth control pills. Prof. Gooren, a leading expert in the field, even noted that breast cancer rate in TS women was similar to genetic men who never took female HRT.

Ask to check blood tests, test other factors she may be concerned about...and see if it is having a negative impact on your health. If everything is fine and keeps being fine, test after test, then she might change her mind, I think.

The only concern, as I have stated before, is that estradiol cypionate is active before it is converted to estradiol such that it may actually be somewhat harmful...but first find out how EC is affecting your health right now...and if anything is suspicious, perhaps suggest to the doctor to be switched to EV and retest.

These are all suggestions that need to be ABSOLUTELY shared with the doctor and that the doctor needs to approve.  Best of luck. :)

I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Newgirl Dani

Quote from: KayXo on March 19, 2015, 02:07:30 PM
Ask your doctor why she would feel more content at a lower level? Why does she feel uncomfortable with these levels when ciswomen all over the world get pregnant, some up to 5-6 times in a lifetime, with levels reaching up to 75,000 pg/ml? Birth rate is certainly not dropping or remaining low due to complications during pregnancy; in fact, quite the opposite and since a looooooooooooooong time, long before medical advances of the 20th-21st century were made.

Explain to her you don't have a uterus like ciswomen. That you aren't taking estradiol orally or Premarin or birth control pills that contain a form of estrogen that is different and that affects the body differently. Tell her the breast cancer rate is VERY low in transsexual women despite quite high doses, especially in the past, much higher than in birth control pills. Prof. Gooren, a leading expert in the field, even noted that breast cancer rate in TS women was similar to genetic men who never took female HRT.

Ask to check blood tests, test other factors she may be concerned about...and see if it is having a negative impact on your health. If everything is fine and keeps being fine, test after test, then she might change her mind, I think.

The only concern, as I have stated before, is that estradiol cypionate is active before it is converted to estradiol such that it may actually be somewhat harmful...but first find out how EC is affecting your health right now...and if anything is suspicious, perhaps suggest to the doctor to be switched to EV and retest.

These are all suggestions that need to be ABSOLUTELY shared with the doctor and that the doctor needs to approve.  Best of luck. :)

Thanks KayXo,

I'm not on EC, I'm on EV, always have been, and yeah I've read 'all' these studies backwards and forwards.  The main thing here is that I'm her first ever trans patient.  The first day when I heard this I had to make up my mind, do I want to not only go through the uphill rocky as hell journey which I 'knew' would happen, AND at the same time take her by the hand and be the teacher in this patient/doctor situation?  I had already spent 4 or 5 months researching where to find a doctor that had experience and importantly take my oddball insurance, and that first day found out that doctor was no longer available!!!

I decided to do it, thinking by the time we get through this I will have a strong and honest relationship.  After much trials and getting many many blood tests, dosage changes, injection cycle changes, I'm now here (9 months later).  I do have one thorn, my Prolactin level, so all is not over yet.  ::)   I am getting tired though and lately I've been thinking about looking elsewhere, it's just that I'm sooooo close to where I want to stay in my hrt, emotional well being improving by leaps and bounds, feminization coming along 'very' nicely etc.

So it's a little like that song  "Stay, just a little bit longer"   :)   Dani
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V M

I'm sure just about any "Armchair Dr." on the internet is happy to offer an opinion, but if you want actual sound advice it is probably best to consult your actual Dr. and pharmacist
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

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- V M
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Newgirl Dani

Quote from: V M on March 19, 2015, 11:40:04 PM
I'm sure just about any "Armchair Dr." on the internet is happy to offer an opinion, but if you want actual sound advice it is probably best to consult your actual Dr. and pharmacist

Is this directed to me?

If it is well.........I talked to my doctor and pharmacist already some time ago which I talked about in one of the above posts I made.  Since then the situation has been resolved.   Dani
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