The Dilemma of "Not Switching Teams"

[Boo Stew]

Well, this seems like the only place I can rant about this as it mostly just further confuses people around me. I came out of the trans closet in early 2014 to at first close friends and the larger transgender community but also to some family and causal acquaintances. At first it seemed like a done deal that I would begin transition in the fall and momentum carried me all the way to the point that I had the pills in my hand and was ready to commit to HRT. Coming out had changed a lot of my relationships in some subtle and some startling ways and although I never verbally committed 100% to changing my gender in a physical or legal sense I think the assumption was there that I would essentially be "switching teams," but that never happened in a definitive way so I've left everyone in a sort of limbo.

The reasons I didn't go through with HRT are myriad and personal but to sum up, I never hated being a man 100%, and my wife who seemed absolutely supportive on the surface rescinded that support at the 11th hour. I wasn't willing to forsake my marriage, and my family for the possible benefits. Coming out to my wife has had incredible benefits including a judgement free, 110% acceptance of my need to present as female wherever and whenever I choose to, and a frankness between us that has actually pushed our relationship to new levels of intimacy. I can finally be her partner, and her best girlfriend the way I always felt I was --without holding back. No, it's the not doing-ness of everything else that has left my friends, colleagues and family unsure what to make of me. I worry that I appear uncertain of myself, when the truth is I am absolutely sure of myself. I may not have taken the road of HRT but I know who I am, the sacrifices i made and the concessions I've found solace in. I know that I am often more comfortable living as a woman than a man. Unfortunately, acceptance of being transgendered and actively pursuing to change from one binary to another is different than acceptance of being something that defies rigid categorization.

A good friend of mine was shocked to hear I didn't go on HRT, split with my wife and start dating men. Her comment was, "I thought that was the point?"

We remain close friends but now she's unsure how to treat me and I feel a barrier between us that wasn't there before when I was just a straight male (who happened to be really in touch with his feminine side -- to use a phrase that's never particularly sat well with me) I'm sure she'll come around because we're super tight but I worry that she and others will re-box me as an M to do so. I can't blame them for pronouns or anything but I really don't want to go back to not speaking freely and shackling my fabulousness.

Also... As I position myself to be a visible presence in entertainment (I'm a film producer and have recently partnered with a name company to produce a series and act as host) I've decided to publicly embrace my gender fluidity (and when I say I decided it means I already have committed to it through on camera interviews and online bios that will launch any day now) even as my "on air" persona is and will be for the foreseeable future distinctly male but I do fret that my message will be confusing as it has been to some of those close to me. I know there's precedent for this sort of thing with Eddie Izzard and Simon Hanselmann but I still wonder what the community will make of me and how these perceptions will further alter how my friends see me.

/end rant

[Girl Beyond Doubt]

The General Public will put you into whatever one of the few boxes each of them has available.
For 99% of your friends and colleagues you will be "out of the box" no matter what you do now. They will have to adapt - some will try, some will manage, some won't. But those who would be unencumbered and open minded enough to accept you as "binary" trans will probably be able to go that little step further.
If you want to please everyone instead, good luck.

Do NOT do something you are not sure of ONLY to suit their initially limited ideas, rather bet that over time many of them will come around. It has taken time for yourself to find out who you are, give those around you time and the chance to catch up. The quality of your relationships will be so much better, just as it seems to be with your wife - I am happy for you beyond words, and positively envious :-) .

Me, I have been on HRT for 15 months, I am a few months post SRS now, planning FFS, but sometimes I wish I could have explored the path you want to follow. My age and my desire made me choose as I did, and I would do it again if I had the chance, but just as you, I never really HATED being a man, I just became more and more sure that I would not be happy being confined to that gender role. If you find a way to have the cake and eat it too, do not let society's shortcomings push you where you do not want to be.

[Dee Marshall]

I'm proud of your decision. I wish that route had been open to me but I needed the estrogen, testosterone was literally driving me crazy. None of us, and I don't mean just trans people, entire fits in neat little boxes. The people who insist you do ultimately don't matter. At least you're in a field where you have that option.

[Kimberley Beauregard]

I can relate to you in many ways and came to the same realization as you last year, so congratulations and hugs from me.

And Girl Beyond Doubt is 100%.  I can't add anything more than her.  Pigeonholing is, unfortunately, done within trans groups too and I've had to avoid social interaction with those who've tried to push the idea I should go full time.  Everyone else just wants me to do what makes me happy which is going down the same route as you (with a very strong male leaning).

Best of luck.

[Boo Stew]

Thank you all for listening to me, offering your thoughts and sharing your wisdom. It means a lot just to know that others share in this experience.

[Tessa James]

Thank you for exploring your thoughts with us.  I consider transition very broadly and note that too many people have a formulaic expectation of the processes and goals for us.  The process you describe is certainly a profound transition and does not become more legitimate with HRT, surgery or a binary endpoint on an entirely different team.  That kind of "rigid categorization" is part of what kept me from accepting myself as transgender for decades.

Kimberley and GBD are right on about people looking to place us in neat boxes with pigeonhole labels that are easier to understand if untrue in seeing the complexity of our lives.

[michelle_kelly]

I think there will be a wide variety of responses to what you have done.  Personally myself I think it is normal.  This is not an easy decision or a black and white one.  We have to explore what we really want and sometimes that isn't clear.  We make an decision to do something like going on HRT without knowing everything.  Later find out something else that changes our mind to do something else.  Doesn't make you indecisive, just better informed and making a better decision for yourself.

Regardless of its deciding how to transition or a lot of things in life the decisions are not easy.  We are only human and try to make the best decision with the information we have.  Like I said new information comes along and changes our mind.  That is not being indecisive that is being smart.  The ones that are in denial and confused are the ones that think once you make a decision that you should stick with it regardless.  Only a fool would be that stubborn.

Yes some people will see you as indecisive.  But that is just their opinion.  Look into your heart and motivations.  If you are changing your actions based on making a better decision then do it and don't worry about those other people.  The people that are truly your friends and supportive will understand changing your mind or following your own path because they do what is best for you.  Like I said anybody, transgender or not, who has to face a major life changing decision will understand that and not think twice about it

[Bunter]

I'm long term non-transitioning myself (ftm), so I really get what you are talking about with the expectations of other people.

Here's another aspect you might consider-
even though it won't be easy, there is a dire need for visibility of non-transitioning or otherwise not-in-a-box trans people. While the progress of trans rights and visibility is very welcome, it has also led to more pressure to conform to the trans narrative, and to less visibility of gender-non-conforming people. There is even a trend with some younger trans people who transition as children or teens to look at late- or non-transitioners as freaks (I live in a country where all is paid for by health care and early transitioning is becoming the norm).

So by being out the way you are and being a living example, you might have a real impact for the better for the "rest of us". Me and some friends have started networking with different non-normative groups, like transvestites, girlfags, guydykes, straight male partners of trans women, and so on. There is a real political need, because often, these groups are even more isolated than LGBT. Everybody sees them as "normal", and when they come out they are often ridiculed for not being "properly" trans or queer.


And if I may say so, completely off-topic: you're pretty cute and it's a shame that you are married  Ok, that must be the spring talking 

[RidingTheTigerFEMME]

It's reassuring to see how many others share the very same dilemma I faced last summer. I think Girl Beyond Doubt expresses my feelings on the matter as well as I could, except that she's farther along and has much more experience than I do.

Sometimes I wish I still had the option of being 100% a man. Please don't make the mistake I made, which was to make the decision before I fully realized the magnitude of what I was doing. Like Girl Beyond Doubt, "I never really HATED being a man, I just became more and more sure that I would not be happy being confined to that gender role." After I started HRT I loved expressing a side of myself I had kept hidden for too long. And I felt more connected to others and like I was living life much more "in the present moment." But once my body started changing, once the breast buds became obvious and I started feeling pain as they grew, I tried to go back. I stopped HRT, but felt horrified as my body kept changing. I reacted by reverting to my old "manly" behaviors, and for a month and a half was in complete denial of the reality: that my mind and body are no longer 100% male.

I think I may have been happy living my entire life as a man, and developing my masculine character traits. Had I done so perhaps I would have one day found it funny that I had at one time wanted to be a woman. But I'm happy with the past I've chosen, and accept myself for who I am and being true to myself rather than forcing myself to conform to rigid gender roles.

Just know that it's possible to embrace your feminine side without actually feminizing your body. And it's worth taking a lot of time to think it over and talk it out. Having second thoughts after the fact was really hard on me emotionally, despite my coming to accept and love myself eventually. So be sure you're fully certain you want to no longer be a man before taking any irreversible steps, because you'll have to live with your decision the rest of your life.

Best of luck... know that you're not alone in your psychological travails!

[Boo Stew]

And if I may say so, completely off-topic: you're pretty cute and it's a shame that you are married  Ok, that must be the spring talking 

I was flattered until I saw the post date: April Fools' Day.

[Dee Marshall]

I was flattered until I saw the post date: April Fools' Day.

It's well past April now. You're cute, deal with it!

[Kimberley Beauregard]

I've dais it elsewhere but yeah, you look very pretty, Boo!

[Bunter]

I was flattered until I saw the post date: April Fools' Day.

Well, I can try... ;-)

But seriously, that's not my timezone

[Bunter]

Boo, have you seen this? http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/06/25/3449462/drag-queens-trans-women/

[Tessa James]

Bunter I appreciate your post of that Huffington article.  It can be a very controversial topic here and most threads are quickly locked when/if people get snarky about drag not being part of the transgender world.  Before my transition I was already very "out" and part of the LGBTQ world but found myself uncomfortable about drag performances.  It felt to me that the humor was often directed at people like me trying hard to reach my own authentic identity.   That effort to transition is as serious as a heart attack and for many of us not something we take off when the show is over.  My small rural community has a great LGBTQ community and some very popular drag events.  One of my friends is a man, self identified as gay, who is the main performer.  He and I were at an LGBT event that included a big dance and he was there in drag for fun and visibility.  I had a great time but was approached by a woman who I did not know that laughed and then grabbed my very real breasts and was going for my crotch until I physically stopped her.  I asked "what the hell are you doing" and she laughed again and said "we are just having fun."  It felt clear she had confused and conflated me with a drag performer and not a serious female but a joke or toy.  That is a part of my experience that causes me to be careful around such events and actually avoid them now.  This is a total derail of the original post and deserves some discussion in a separate thread but my pervious attempts have been shot down and locked, apparently to avoid further discriminating against our friends who are in to drag.  Drag is not the problem IMO but the easy conflation with someone like me and drag in our culture suggests people don't understand the differences and once again one easy label like freak or queer works too well?

I also appreciate your efforts to broaden cultural awareness by working with "non-normative groups.  Thanks!

Boo, have you seen this? http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/06/25/3449462/drag-queens-trans-women/

[Dee Marshall]

I have to agree, Tessa. I found the respect and compassion for us many of the drag performers expressed gratifying, but at the same time I felt uncomfortable. The conflict between their art form and our reality is something I think most of both groups regret. Perhaps the similarities between us are what makes it hurt so badly when a member of one group is callous about the other.

I certainly never intend to sound that way and if I ever do you all have permission to slap me. Victor/Victoria, Connie and Carla, The Bird Cage and To Wong Foo are some of my favorite movies. It's a shame that the movies about us are rarely even half as positive.

[BenKenobi]

Hng...that comment made about leaving your wife to date men really got under my skin. Gender identity =/= sexuality.
-angst angst angst-

Ok, that's out of the way, good on you for deciding not to do something just because it's assumed that's what you "have" to do. There's nothing wrong being gender-fluid and there's nothing wrong with not taking hormones. You are you with or without them and I hope that your friends and family will understand that. c:

[Boo Stew]

Boo, have you seen this? http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/06/25/3449462/drag-queens-trans-women/

I have now. Good read. Drag is cool and it seems like for a lot of performers its been a low risk way to better understanding their own gender identity. The way I see it... Better we're associated with something fun than with freaking Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. Man I love that movie but grrr Buffalo Bill and his woman-skin suit.

[Bunter]

Bunter I appreciate your post of that Huffington article.  It can be a very controversial topic here and most threads are quickly locked when/if people get snarky about drag not being part of the transgender world.  Before my transition I was already very "out" and part of the LGBTQ world but found myself uncomfortable about drag performances.  It felt to me that the humor was often directed at people like me trying hard to reach my own authentic identity.   That effort to transition is as serious as a heart attack and for many of us not something we take off when the show is over.  My small rural community has a great LGBTQ community and some very popular drag events.  One of my friends is a man, self identified as gay, who is the main performer.  He and I were at an LGBT event that included a big dance and he was there in drag for fun and visibility.  I had a great time but was approached by a woman who I did not know that laughed and then grabbed my very real breasts and was going for my crotch until I physically stopped her.  I asked "what the hell are you doing" and she laughed again and said "we are just having fun."  It felt clear she had confused and conflated me with a drag performer and not a serious female but a joke or toy.  That is a part of my experience that causes me to be careful around such events and actually avoid them now.  This is a total derail of the original post and deserves some discussion in a separate thread but my pervious attempts have been shot down and locked, apparently to avoid further discriminating against our friends who are in to drag.  Drag is not the problem IMO but the easy conflation with someone like me and drag in our culture suggests people don't understand the differences and once again one easy label like freak or queer works too well?

I also appreciate your efforts to broaden cultural awareness by working with "non-normative groups.  Thanks!

I don't know how it's handled here- maybe the mods can make a new threads from this, if it's going off-topic too far?

I totally understand where you're coming from. When drag kinging was big, going to any LGBT event was a pretty daunting experience for me, because people assumed that I must be a drag king (and not a very convincing one). The conflation between drag and trans is especially problematic for those of us who can't or won't pass full time.
Thing got even worse when about half of the drag king community transitioned, and passed perfectly, and now I was told by them I'm not trans because I didn't "prove" it by transitioning.
I'm not transitioning for health issues but have been out for more than 25 years, so that was really pissing me off.

I posted the article because of what Jinx Monsoon said (love her, btw ) about being a drag queen *and* transgender. I would count her in the non-transitioning category, and people like us often fall between the cracks of cultural definition wars. I assume she gets >-bleeped-< from both sides, which would be my experience too. Getting threatened by man hating lesbians and ridiculed by hardcore transsexuals - yeah. Not. 

It's bit like being bisexual- the worst of both worlds 

Btw. that's one reason why intersex people have such a big problem with trans people- Because everybody assumes they are trans and it's driving them insane.

I so want a (peaceful) discussion about all this to happen. There were some beginnings of this in the late 90s, but all that died after the whole radicalism after 9/11, I think.
Riki Wilchins, among others, has been trying to get people to talk to each other.

[Allison Wunderland]

acceptance of being transgendered and actively pursuing to change from one binary to another is different than acceptance of being something that defies rigid categorization.

Two sources for you:

Anne Fausto-Sterling "Sexing The Body" -- copyright 2000. Pretty readable/accessible. . .  undergrad text in gender studies.

Anne Fausto-Sterling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Fausto-Sterling
Wikipedia
Anne Fausto-Sterling (born July 30, 1944) is the Nancy Duke Lewis Professor of Biology and Gender Studies at Brown University.

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Judith Butler -- "Bodies That Matter" and others ("Gender Trouble" "Undoing Gender") -- These are heavy wading, like grad school  critical theory texts.

Judith Butler, Ph.D., Hannah Arendt Chair at the European Graduate School EGS, attended Bennington College and then Yale University, where she received her B.A., and her Ph.D. in philosophy in 1984. Her first training in philosophy took place at the synagogue in her hometown of Cleveland. She taught at Wesleyan and Johns Hopkins universities before becoming Maxine Elliot Professor in the Departments of Rhetoric and Comparative Literature at the University of California, Berkeley.

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Butler views "gender" as "performative" -- That we perform culturally determined gender roles. "Drag" is a parody of those roles and intended to be exaggerated, stereotypical, and part of a "performance" that is mostly about what culture views as  being "stereo-typical" cultural expectations about gender roles.

There are two ends on the gender continuum, and a whole lot of space in between the two poles. Butler uses the term "Non-Normative Gender ID" or gender roles -- "Trans" is not about "drag" -- NOT the assumption of a role, but rather an intrinsic and integrated personal ID.

I'm physically male, 67 yrs old and the androgen assault has left me looking like "man in a dress" -- The cis-women locally dress like me pretty much: pants, polar fleece pull over, boots, sandals, or jogging shoes. Lots of "unisex" items.

I opened the closet door as "non-gender normative" -- I have my share of wardrobe items to die for, most of which I look entirely absurd wearing. And so I just "be me" and not worry about "which camp" I owe allegiance. Some days I do more than others.

The whole gender ID thing is way bigger than "which public restroom."

I don't like feeling a need to "chose" one camp or the other.  Sure as hell don't want to formulate some sort of alternative history about who I was as I grew up. I'm me . . . always have been. Opening the closet door just provided for me an option about ID and ID continuum, and let me let go of a need to fit into one camp or the other.

"Not hetero-normative" -- Not a complete solution, but seems to help me be more secure about who I am, how I view myself and the world.

Let's  be clear here. Dresses don't work for me, but then I know a lot of cis-women who look absurd in a dress.