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Maybe I am not trans?

Started by orangejuice, April 06, 2015, 04:04:49 PM

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orangejuice

I still find it really hard to say I am transgender and I was born this way. I still struggle to identify with most other transgender people. I hear some things that make me feel guilt about having even gone this far in my head because I think-'that is not me', but then there are other ways in which this feeling comes to the surface and that I'm fairly certain I will never get rid of. This is where I am at the moment and I thought I'd get advice from people about what it could mean.

Basically after a lot of deliberation I think I've concluded that the best chance for me to be happy and have a good life is to continue being who I am just now and in fact get back to more the guy I was before I decided that this feeling needed some attention. Since that time it has completely dominated my mind in a pretty unhealthy way.  I think it is likely, but not certain, that I was born with some degree of gender dysphoria, but unlike others who seem to outwardly reject their gender as kids, at least for a year or two before they become socially conscious, I literally NEVER told anyone about these feelings. I did lots of things privately but even as young as 4 I knew it wasn't 'right' and told no one. The closest I got was being 5 and asking my Mum if I could go to ballet class with my sister, which she was going to let me do, but when we were in the car I felt too embarassed because I knew boys weren't supposed to do ballet. Anyway from that point on I pretty much naturally fell into things that boys were supposed to do and genuinely loved those things. Running around and playing sports was basically the thing I loved more than anything from 5 or 6 years old. Then I slowly gathered a group of friends at school who were all boys and I loved hanging out with them. Then I started getting attention from girls and seemed to be thought of as a good looking guy which again I loved. I went on to be a bit of a leader in terms of sports and it might sound a bit cocky but was sort of looked up to by the guys of my year group, even my whole school, and continued to get a bit of attention from girls. I was PROUD of who I was and I really liked myself. This confuses me a lot. There was always this small part of me which I knew wasn't normal but I didn't care. The thing that has RUINED my self-esteem is sex and relationships, and this is the ONLY aspect that I can clearly see fits with gender dysphoria. Basically after being attracted to girls my whole life when it got to the point where sex started happening I hated it. Really hated it. I felt so awkward and uncomfortable and the actual act would always turn me off even if I had been turned on right up to that point. That feeling has basically progressed into realising the only way I can orgasm is if I imagine I am a woman during sex. I can see a lot of things about the whole aspect of relationships that are unusual. When I was a kid I used to really look forward to getting married. I can see now it was in a more of 'girly' way. I thought about relationships more romantically than I began to realise my friends did. That is when that confidence and happiness with who I was started to evaporate. Especially when I realised how different my friends attitude to sex was. Basically I hate the way guys talk about sex and seem so driven by it in itself. I hate the conversations about it and feel so different the whole time that I  leave them feeling like another chunk of my already  pretty much non-existent self-esteem has been eaten away. Anyway that is just some background, here is what I would really like to ask-

I don't care about being seen as a guy walking down the street, I don't care about being seen as a guy by other guys and playing that macho role, I don't care about girls seeing me as a guy and approaching me and even flirting with me as such. Overall I'm not too bothered by being seen as a guy by the world.  I'd RATHER I was seen as a girl, but the degree to which that bothers me is tiny. Not an issue at all. So that is why I have decided to go down the route I have done. And basically this is what happens- I go a day or two doing guy things, pumping out my chest and trying to be proud of myself in the way that I was when I was younger, and if I am successful, I feel good. Then I will see a pretty girl, or someone wearing clothes that I like, or shoes, or with really nice hair, or just a really cool looking girl, and I'm struck with this feeling-I WISH THAT WAS ME. Now the confusing part is, if I am able to let that feeling pass over me, leave it alone and just let it float away until eventually my attention is taken by something else, I feel good. Really good. The longer I can go doing that, 'beating' the feeling as it were, the better I feel, and the more I feel my self-esteem returning and hints of that old confidence coming back. But the thing is I find that incredibly hard to do and have never gone longer than a week in the last 3-4 years. Basically what happens is, the hopelessness of the feeling is too much to bear. I long for this thing that is impossible and its like I can't think about anything else. I am not turned on when this feeling first arises, but when it happens, the only thing I can think to do about it to make it seem less overwhelming, is to masturbate. I make the decision to turn it into a sexual feeling. That is then what makes me hate myself.

The thing is I have always been attracted to girls but now I'm just totally confused. I can only orgasm if I imagine being the woman during sex and that has been since my very first 'dreams' as an adolescent. But even then I still felt physically attracted to women. Now I can't even say that for sure. When I see an attractive girl I NEVER think, 'I'd like to be with her' anymore. Instead I think 'I wish I looked like her'. I am definitely not attracted to guys in that physical way either but I definitely do notice good looking guys just as a matter of observation. Its sort of like my attraction to girls is physical and my attraction to guys is romantic if that makes any sense?  Again the only area where I am certain I have the same types of trans feelings as other is relationships, sex, and romantically. The guy part of me that I am happy with finds it really hard to even write this down, but I want to be loved as a woman by a man, physically and romantically. Everything that relationships entail from start to finish; dating, marrying, having a family, I want to be the female.  Like the other things I could probably let that go if I was OK with being the guy, but it seems like I'm not. I'm 26, basically a virgin, haven't kissed a girl for about 2 years and have no real intention of pursuing a relationship for the rest of my life which is really sad to think about. BUT that slow re-building process of my self-esteem, which I can see start happening on the occasions that I AM able to let these feelings drift away in my head, COULD lead to a point where I can see that I would feel comfortable enough to ask a girl out or whatever. There would still be the sex thing but if I could somehow make that work, again I can see that that would add another big chunk of self-confidence back to my 'guy' self.

Anyway what I have been doing in the last month is trying to put these feelings behind me and build up that 'guy' self-esteem again. Every 2 or 3 days it is generally wiped back to zero by the behaviour I have describe above, but the fact that it works at all, and works more the longer I can avoid said behaviour, makes me really think that actually I wasn't born with gender dysphoria at all. That what I experience is more some quirk of my sexuality.

What do you think? If you had to give an answer does it sound like I am transgender? Any opinions much appreciated.
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awilliams1701

Being trans doesn't have to be black and white. I myself am non-binary. I see myself as about 70% female. While I don't completely relate to you (I can't stand sports), there is a lot where I do relate to you. I can't say if your non-binary or trans or anything like that only you can, but it sounds like you might be. Also know that orientation and gender aren't the same thing. There is nothing wrong with being both trans and gay.

I only recently came out myself. I had trans issues as a kid but didn't understand what was going on. I didn't know that I wanted to be a girl and even if I knew I wanted to I didn't know it was possible. Being non-binary in a binary world its not surprising I wouldn't know I was a girl. As I got older I went from not understanding trans issues to being completely ashamed of them. I completely suppressed my memories of trans issues until I was ready to question my gender.  I've dealt with gender disphoria a lot more than I realized too. It wasn't until I accepted myself that I realized off feelings about my body that I didn't try to surpress were a part of that disphoria.
Ashley
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kittenpower

From what you say, it sounds like you could be trans, but it's something that only you can decide.  You may find that a therapist could help you sort out your feelings, and help you reach a conclusion. It is highly unlikely that the feelings you are having, will ever go away, in fact they may get stronger. If you discover that you are trans, and want to proceed with transition, it would benefit you greatly to do it before you get too much older.  Best wishes :)
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orangejuice

Quote from: awilliams1701 on April 06, 2015, 04:33:24 PM
Being trans doesn't have to be black and white. I myself am non-binary. I see myself as about 70% female. While I don't completely relate to you (I can't stand sports), there is a lot where I do relate to you. I can't say if your non-binary or trans or anything like that only you can, but it sounds like you might be. Also know that orientation and gender aren't the same thing. There is nothing wrong with being both trans and gay.

Hey awilliams1701

Ye I totally understand that gender and orientation aren't the same thing, and its a common thing people say. Its why I feel totally confused and find it hard to relate sometimes to other trans people. Basically I feel like the only part of me that is definitely trans is my sexual orientation. And what I mean by that is that my sexuality is female and relating to an imaginary female body. Totally bizarre I know. In one way it makes me think I am more  likely to be trans because your sexuality is something that is so inherent and I feel is probably most reflective of your subconscious, but on the other hand it makes me fell less trans because the social aspect is less there and it is easy on the surface to ascribe what I feel to 'sexuality'. Its like my conscious self is totally cool with being a guy, in a way that you would really think I don't have gender dysphoria, but my subconscious self is female in a way that is even greater than people who obviously have gender dysphoria. I mean no dis-respect to anyone but I don't relate to people who say, 'I ignored it and went on got married and had kids', to me that is not an option, and yet socially I definitely don't have the issues that most people do with being a guy. Anyway I'm rambling that probably makes no sense whatsoever. Thanks for the reply.
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orangejuice

Quote from: kittenpower on April 06, 2015, 04:40:02 PM
From what you say, it sounds like you could be trans, but it's something that only you can decide.  You may find that a therapist could help you sort out your feelings, and help you reach a conclusion. It is highly unlikely that the feelings you are having, will ever go away, in fact they may get stronger. If you discover that you are trans, and want to proceed with transition, it would benefit you greatly to do it before you get too much older.  Best wishes :)

Hi kittenpower, thanks for the reply. I saw a therapist for a while. She thought I had gender dysphoria. Sort of a long story. I should probably just do all my posts on here on one thread, but I'm pretty certain I am not going to transition. I have come to that decision in the last month.  I just think it will be useful to understand this feeling as completely as I can and that will be helpful in trying to deal with it. If I can say 'I am transgender and I was born this way' then that will affect how I approach dealing with it. But I still have my doubts about that. Also it just really interests me. It gives you a pretty unique insight into what makes people who they are.
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awilliams1701

One thing I've noticed in my own journey is that the further I've gone the harder it is to look back. Originally there were a lot of girly things I had no interest in. That's been steadily changing and it isn't the hormones either. A lot of it is coming to terms with who I really am which is a HUGE part of the process. I certainly don't relate to those with kids because I never had any. Sexuality was a big part of how I recognized I was transgender. Sex as a man never felt right, but there were certain ways it felt right and what I realized was that those ways made me oblivious the differences between me and her.  I do agree with kittenpower though. You need to see a therapist to help you sort out these issues. I didn't want to see one originally, but I'm glad I did. I didn't have a lot of issues, but I had more than I realized and she helped me to both understand and deal with them.
Ashley
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Mariah

Orangejuice a therapist would be greatly helpful to you, but having said that it's very possible that you didn't know that you might be trans tell after getting married and having children with her. The point when each person knows differs. Each case is unique and different in it's own way. As far as not relating to the trans community I can understand that were not all going to relate well with in this community. Each of us is different and who we relate to or feel comfortable around is going to differ. Regardless when you need help the community is here for you. Good luck on whatever you decide to do and by the sounds of your first post it sounds like you have somewhat made your mind up already. Good luck
Mariah
Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 04:53:07 PM
Hey awilliams1701

Ye I totally understand that gender and orientation aren't the same thing, and its a common thing people say. Its why I feel totally confused and find it hard to relate sometimes to other trans people. Basically I feel like the only part of me that is definitely trans is my sexual orientation. And what I mean by that is that my sexuality is female and relating to an imaginary female body. Totally bizarre I know. In one way it makes me think I am more  likely to be trans because your sexuality is something that is so inherent and I feel is probably most reflective of your subconscious, but on the other hand it makes me fell less trans because the social aspect is less there and it is easy on the surface to ascribe what I feel to 'sexuality'. Its like my conscious self is totally cool with being a guy, in a way that you would really think I don't have gender dysphoria, but my subconscious self is female in a way that is even greater than people who obviously have gender dysphoria. I mean no dis-respect to anyone but I don't relate to people who say, 'I ignored it and went on got married and had kids', to me that is not an option, and yet socially I definitely don't have the issues that most people do with being a guy. Anyway I'm rambling that probably makes no sense whatsoever. Thanks for the reply.
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Lady Smith

There is so much about your personal story I can relate to and empathise with orangejuice, except I disliked sports growing up and in my teens I used to day dream about being pregnant.  I think it would be useful for you to talk to a therapist as from my own and others experience I know that feelings of dysphoria don't fade away as you get older.  What you might be able to tolerate when you're young may become intolerable in middle age which is why I think it would be a really good idea to talk to a therapist who works in the area of gender identity
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Beverly

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 04:04:49 PM
What do you think? If you had to give an answer does it sound like I am transgender? Any opinions much appreciated.

If you have any doubts then stop if it is safe to do so.

Are you transgender? Who knows? If you do not know then who can?

One thing I am fairly sure about - if you truly do have gender dysphoria then the desire to transition in some way will return and stronger than before. That is one thing that many (most?) of us find. We can put it off for a while, sometimes months, sometimes years, sometimes decades, but it always seems to return with a vengence.

If in doubt, wait and see. If you can live without transitioning then do so.

I would very much have liked to avoid transition so my views are coloured by my desires and in any case I failed to resist the drive to change myself. I have since thrown myself into transition heart, mind and soul because since I have to do it I might as well make sure that it benefits me as much as possible, but my life would have been a lot simpler if I had been able to avoid this.
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Aazhie

I feel there's a lot of great replies while I have been writing a book here, ha ha...  I agree a therapist qualified to discuss your feelings would be the best place to start! Only you can say what is going on and a good therapist is there to help you find out what will be best for you on your way to feeling more comfortable with your expression of self.  It is certainly helpful to talk these things out online or with a Transgender group if you can find a local club as well :D  Having friends and support that can relate to what you are going through is exceedingly helpful.


some trigger warning for discussion of fetish, perversion,prejudices and consent issues:
I just finished reading the book "Pervert: The Sexual Deviant in All of Us," by Jesse Bering.  He's a gay author and has written other books on sexuality that I haven't read but I really enjoyed this one.  He discusses many subjects and as a warning he does discuss fetishes like scat and pedophilia, but as a way of understanding sexuality as a whole.  Basically, as I see it, we form our basic sexual drives and attractions (fetishes, not attractions as far as sexual preferences like being gay,bi or straight) at very young ages.  It's a great book for anyone to read in my opinion and it has many references to other more science heavy books that could be interesting to follow up on!  Please be aware that I use the word pervert to refer to myself as well as others and not because I am transgender.  To me, it means 'not average' and I generally consider it a good thing or a very neutral label. I believe the majority of humans (and even many animals) engage in or imagine sexual acts that do not involve reproduction, and many of those behaviors are consider perversions but are not at all bad or unpleasant, just different expressions.  Most are relatively harmless but many can become harmful if things like consent and communication are not involved, so I'm going to do my best to explain my views...

(I am also going to toss in a quick disclaimer: have you read about genderqueer definitions and concerns?  You may also consider yourself genderqueer or fluid if some days you simply feel more feminine and that is a perfectly valid gender expression!)

There's a section of the book where he discusses transgender fetishism, which he makes pretty clear is tied to but also different than being transgender!  It's COMPLICATED, as there aren't necessarily distinct terminologies to describe each way distinctly.  It really sounds like you may be a fetishistic transgender person, rather than a ->-bleeped-<-.  A ->-bleeped-<- (as I see it) is happy as their born gender/sex but enjoys cross dressing either as a daily comfort, or as a sexual fetish.  These can overlap, but usually someone can tell you if they like to cross-dress as a sexual thing, or as just who they are on a day to day basis of feeling more comfortable in a specific kind of clothes/appearance.  So like being a cross dresser, one can be transgender as a day to day "this is who I am" thing, or more as a fetish.  I don't feel this diminishes your feelings in the slightest, but I would caution being very sure of what you want if you plan to take hormones or get any kind of surgical work done.

That being said, your average transperson is unique! Some people are perfectly content forgoing surgery or even living as their birth sex- looking, dressing and acting the part of the gender they were assigned at birth.  In my experience, the vast majority of transgender people need to do something to alleviate their disphoria, but everyone's remedy of choice is different.  You should not have to feel any different there- your journey is your own.  But since you are not constantly disphoric and as I see it, your disphoria appears to be more linked to your sexuality, I would caution leaping into a permanent change until you are sure it is right for you!  Don't feel you have to doubt your feelings, explore your options and think about all the pros and cons of each. 

Do you feel like having breasts would be an important thing to you?  Would you be happy with forms, or do you really want your own body to look more feminine every day?  There are many excellent products that can change your appearance and MANY people that would be happy to accommodate your desires if you have good communication and honesty about yourselves. Know that your situation, your feelings might change and that is okay!  I just wouldn't wish for you to 'go too far' so to speak and regret changing yourself in a way that would be difficult to come to terms with.  Though this is true for anyone thinking about transitioning issues.  I assumed I would have to want bottom surgery, but many people are happy forgoing an expensive, extensive operation and I am one of them.  I am pleased that there are people out there who are tough enough to go for it because it is what they need, but I really do not expect anyone to charge into any kind of operation without considering the graver consequences and be willing to accept the possibility of  complications that are inherent with all surgeries.  Same with hormones- some people take them for a limited time, others will want to remain on them for life!  Everyone is different and there's never really a one size fits all solution for humanity.  Plenty of lovely ladies who are happy with theirpenis and many guys who enjoy having a vagina.  I for one am going to remove my ovaries but leave everything else intact.  I am having top surgery and care very little about my nipple sensitivity but I am probably never going to be okay with the idea of losing sensitivity in my genitals. It's just a risk that is not worth it to me, but if someone else is needing to change their genitals I am happy to support them and wish them all the best! :D

I would recommend writing down your feelings, even just for yourself, being mindful of how you react emotionally, mentally and physically to women and the idea of being one.  It seems you've already been pretty honest with yourself, really the important thing to do is figure out how and when you want to express it!  A therapist could be helpful as well, you shouldn't feel guilty for having drives and feelings that differ from other transgender people , and I feel like you can still identify  as transgender if that is how you feel, or if you need to have a new label, you can say that you relate to transgender but are not a full time transgender person.  Not everyone will understand, and you may want to moderate some behaviors or not act transgender all the time if that is how you feel.  I guess the biggest concern here is if you mostly identify as male or masculine, you will need to respect women's spaces as best as possible.  If using the women's room is something that arouses you, or doesn't feel like a necessity (rather than makes you feel safe and normal) I would really say it's best to use the men's room, or neutral bathrooms rather than the women's.  Be aware that men have a lot of assumed rights and priviledges and you don't want to be invading a place that is considered safe for women, trans or cis! There is certainly nothing wrong with you, but it seems you might have some fine lines to be aware of and responsible to not cross as a respect for others. There's nothing wrong with having an unusual (or not so unusual) fetish, many people are willing to indulge their partners in turn for their partner indulging them, or seek out others to fulfill their own needs.  There's women out there who love men who crossdress and would be into you being a woman for sex, or when you feel like it.  The only time I disagree with acting out one's needs is when they are hurting or imposing on another creature.  It's not okay for a pedophile to act sexually upon a child, or a zoophile to accost an animal, but roleplay, imagination and consent are things that make possibly difficult fetishes bearable and healthy.  It would be perfectly okay for you to go out with a person while dressed as a woman, but you will have to make your own rules pretty clear. If you are dressed up as a woman, does that mean you are a woman for the night? Does that mean you feel safer using the ladies room? Be aware that there can be consequences and dangers and please do you best to to use other people as part of your scene if in fact you decide your transgender feelings are sexual in nature.  Its is rude to humiliate or impersonate for your own gain, be kind and respectful to others. I don't want to imply you need to hide your sexuality or gender expression, but think of it this way:  Unless a BDSM person is at an event where it is allowed to strip and beat their partner, they should not do things that are BDSM in public places.  It is expressly illegal to engage in sexual acts in public, even though some people have exhibitionist needs.  A flasher is a criminal, a dancer in a topless joint in not!  Context is very important and it would be rude as well as criminal to engage in inappropriate behavior just to get yourself off for the day.  I even disagree with a couple in my area who engaged in light behavior in public that was bringing the fetish to innocent bystanders.  I've regretted doing similar misbehaviors myself because even if it isn't illegal to drag someone around on a  leash in public, it can be rude to those who have not consented to be a part of that scene.  To me, it's important to make a distinction between the everyday and the fetishistic.  If someone is mostly aroused by dressing in women's clothes, please consider that they are, in a way, expecting strangers to be a part of your sexual experience. That being said, I don't disagree with someone wearing lingerie under their work clothes, or even wearing a subtle packer or using a walk around toy in public, provided that NO ONE EVER NOTICES.  Humans seek out thrills and novelty, but there's a difference between naughty little secrets and flashing strangers in an alley! There is also a massive difference between women who dress and act like women as part of their gender identity and those who are more a part of a man who needs to indulge in their feminine side for various reasons.  I will still happily consider you a sister/brother/other transgender no matter what you decide.  In the end we are all human and need to work together regardless of our genders...

  Some words of caution: In my opinion, it is misleading to say you are fully transgender if in your heart and mind you know better. If that's the case, you would need to be careful about when and where you perform sexual activities and do everything you can to respect innocent bystanders as well as be an upstanding person because if you are outed, most cis people will lump you as a transgender person and assume your behavior is indicative of all transwomen.  Misbehavior by few tends to make the conservative majority leery of 'perverts', even though very few humans are NOT perverts(in my opinion and research, ha ha!) Sad to say, you can still be a hate crime victim at any time even if you are only partially transgender.  I make no real judgements as to what is your unique expression but I know things like fetishistic ->-bleeped-<- exist and have a lot of unfortunate misconceptions that harm both the transgender and the fetish communities.   I feel like a lot of transgender people are much more aroused by the idea of being their true gender, so it's not that that is unusual in itself, I just don't see much serious discussion of fetishes in daily conversation beyond "those people are messed up" judgements, except among forums like this as well as others that I visit that are more fetish specific.

So these are my long rambling thoughts and I hope any of this helps.  If you have any need for private PMs I would be happy to discuss privately or further here in the forums :)
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
Johnny Cash
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orangejuice

Ok here's the thing. How can you be sure it gets worse with age? People say it all the time. I don't want to offend anyone, and it's probably healthier to be able to deal with this feeling, I mean if my body was built differently and if heaven forbid I didn't have any family or friends, I'd pursue transition for sure, maybe even only if the former condition was satisfied. I know people talk about you have to do what makes you happy, but being  liked by friends and family does make me happy, regardless of how I would rather be seen, being able to experience life free from any discrimination, stigma or limitations because of my appearance makes me happy, so these are all things that factor into the decision and why I am content to say the right thing to do is to leave it alone.

Literally the ONLY thing that makes me question that decision is this thing that people say that it gets worse with age. And I'm terrified of that. I mean I still think you all are probably right, but out of interest, what would you say to the counter argument that people who have questioned their gender identity in the past, decided to put it behind them, and have gone on to lead happy and content lives in their assigned gender, wouldn't exactly be coming on to sites like this or making the fact that they had at one point questioned their gender public in any way?

Hi Aazhie, it is something that I have questioned, the whole fetish thing, that maybe I am just a guy with a fetish. That is why I was basically able to ignore it from the age of 18-25. I compartmentalised the feeling so well and didn't want to understand it because I was ashamed of what I might find. Not that fetishes are something to be ashamed of but its just how I felt. I'm not sure saying its just a fetish really makes sense though. I mean there is no physical action or anything that I like to do that satisifies any kind of urge I have. Its just that when I imagine sex I'm always the female, and I mean right down to the exact physical sensation. I remember the very first sex education class I had they showed a basic 'jigsaw' of intercourse and I didn't understand why the woman was the one with her legs wide and the mans legs were in the middle. I didn't really understand sex in any detail at that point but I thought they had got it wrong because I'd already felt things that seemed like that was not how it was supposed to feel. Anyway there are actually loads of other aspects to how I feel. Its just the only part that negatively impacts upon my life and self-esteem is the sexual part.
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stephaniec

I really don't know how to answer you except therapy would help. The thing about orgasm is the you are able to orgasm with your mate ,so really what does it matter how you see your self when experiencing the orgasm. The important thing is your able to orgasm and enjoy the bond between you and your partner. As far as being trans or not you can always have a trial period of living trans and see if it helps, you can always turn back. I'm guessing your quite young , I'm a whole lot older and had to live the wrong way because the path wasn't shown to me and I was in pain my whole life forced to live wrong. I'm free now, but my life was so wrong .  I knew something wasn't right from 4 years old and the struggle the rest of my life was incredibly painful. I think you know deep down whether are not your trans you just have to find the level you can be happy with. I don't know if your in therapy , but therapy can help explore where you fit.
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Miyuki

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
I mean if my body was built differently and if heaven forbid I didn't have any family or friends, I'd pursue transition for sure, maybe even only if the former condition was satisfied.

This pretty much say it all doesn't it? If you really don't want to transition because overall you think you'd be happier without transitioning, that is perfectly fine and understandable. But if the only reason you don't want to transition is because you are scared of what other people might think, that is one of the worst reasons you can have. How do you know what other people will think, and how that will affect your life? It may surprise you to know, the majority of people are pretty understanding and accepting of transgender people. I don't know for sure that would be the case with your friends and family, but you will never know unless you try.
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Kylie

I can relate to a lot of what you have said.  Two things really stand out.

1. Always experiencing sexual fantasy/pleasure from the perspective of being female.
2. I have said to myself and my therapist over and over that if it weren't for family/friends and my physical build, I would transition in a heartbeat.

I have always felt like I should have been female since I was 4/5, but I have spent 35 years pushing that back to try and live a normal life. It is harder to push back the sexuality aspect because the urges always remain, and it began to feel to me that it was more of a fetish as time passed.  Long story short, it did get worse.  Once all of my friends got married and started having kids, the distractions were gone and I was left with myself.  Someone doing their best to fight who they really are.  Even though I have always known the way I feel, last April was the first time I really admitted to myself that I was transgender; that despite all of my efforts through the years, it is not going away, and there is nothing I can do to make it.  There was great relief in giving up the fight.  In the last year, I have taken safe steps towards transition (growing hair and hair removal), and began pushing friends and family away (by no means do I advise this as it is probably not healthy), but I needed to give myself some breathing room and to get a sense of how my life would be without their support or contact.  I have no answer for your fears about your body build as I have not overcome that hurdle myself, and it scares me a great deal to go from someone who has experienced such privilege to someone who is seen by society as "the other" or worse if I don't pass. I will tell you that the number one emotion I experience in therapy and daily life is regret for the time I have lost, and panic that it is too late or becoming too late.  I am beginning to feel that the regret is worse than the fears of what my reality would be if I do transition.

I know this probably doesn't help a whole lot, but I just wanted to be one more person to let you know that you are certainly not alone.  I just hope you find peace with whatever you decide.

Kylie


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Aazhie

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
Hi Aazhie, it is something that I have questioned, the whole fetish thing, that maybe I am just a guy with a fetish. That is why I was basically able to ignore it from the age of 18-25. I compartmentalised the feeling so well and didn't want to understand it because I was ashamed of what I might find. Not that fetishes are something to be ashamed of but its just how I felt. I'm not sure saying its just a fetish really makes sense though. I mean there is no physical action or anything that I like to do that satisifies any kind of urge I have. Its just that when I imagine sex I'm always the female, and I mean right down to the exact physical sensation. I remember the very first sex education class I had they showed a basic 'jigsaw' of intercourse and I didn't understand why the woman was the one with her legs wide and the mans legs were in the middle. I didn't really understand sex in any detail at that point but I thought they had got it wrong because I'd already felt things that seemed like that was not how it was supposed to feel. Anyway there are actually loads of other aspects to how I feel. Its just the only part that negatively impacts upon my life and self-esteem is the sexual part.

Cool! Yeah I think if it's something you have already considered but it doesn't feel accurate, then I would say trust your feelings! I think a professional experienced in this kind of issue would be your best bet, as I think talking with a trained pro can really help.  They often have resources and knowledge that can relate to other aspects of ourselves, as well as getting you connections with other groups or healthcare professionals that can assist if you do decide to transition.  I think that you feeling like you are in the wrong, uh, 'position' so to speak makes it a lot clearer to me.  If you feel like there's a genuine need, then you should most certainly see where that feeling takes you. 
Before really acknowledging I was transgender I would have said I was happy.  I had many outlets, the internet actually eases a lot of disphoria for me, and did even before I really thought too hard about it.  I can roleplay male as much as I want and no one will question your gender online if you're just a username ;D I think a good deal of my issues still involved being attracted to men, while also wanting to be one, so I usually just used escapism to deal with the odd clashing impulses.  A lot of my escapism involved fantasy, so for the longest time I think I was subliminating my need to be male into a desire to be even more different: to have magic powers, or be some kind of crazy mythical beings like a naga, dragon or centaur and it kept me from really getting into the truth of what I felt.  A lot of times I was jealous of animals because they aren't self aware in the ways humans are, they just do things.  Female dogs will still mount other dogs regardless of sex, I envied that ability to just do things without thought and worry over what their actions were. When i was younger, there weren't any people in my life that were non-binary, I didn't even know about what gay or bi was in any serious fashion.  So I know what you are saying big time, just in very different ways!

The human mind is very complex and each is different from another- we can make ourselves sick simply be believing we are sick!  I expect at least a few of my own neurosies are probably partly caused by my own confusion and repression.  We can convince ourselves of many things, without needing drugs or chemical imbalances to distort our ways of thinking.  Societal pressure to conform can be enormous, from childhood on, but I think you can come to terms with who you are, whether it's a woman or simply a person who does not need defining.  I do think it's fully possibly to squash a lot of the need- life is full of distractions and there's not much in the way of exposure to alternate genders in most media.  It's the biggest advantage we have with the internet nowadays. 

Is this something you have discussed with anyone? Your girlfriend at all?  No pressure, just curious...
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
Johnny Cash
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Sophie Lou

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
Ok here's the thing. How can you be sure it gets worse with age? People say it all the time. I don't want to offend anyone, and it's probably healthier to be able to deal with this feeling, I mean if my body was built differently and if heaven forbid I didn't have any family or friends, I'd pursue transition for sure, maybe even only if the former condition was satisfied.

This also says so much for me.

I can relate to a lot of what you said orange juice. I lived off of the attention of others growing up. I was attractive, good at sports (eve thought I loved playing them til I was 36!). I figured out how to live as a straight male. I easily would have orgasms with girls. Heck, I was married for many years to an wonderful, beautiful woman!

I lived this way til my mid 20's without batting an eyelash. There were major hints along the way, but I didn't acknowledge that they were even questions. I treated those thoughts so distantly, it was as if it was from another person and not me.

It's taken me 38 years to realize that things I thought that I loved (sports, being a professional photographer and editor, etc) I actually didn't love. I loved the how they could give me attention if I performed well. There is a subtle but fundamental difference.

Eventually I started to realize that I was a master manipulator of myself and of others. It wasn't to deceive anybody. It was to survive, because acknowledging that inner voice which had been completely buried would mean the unthinkable....hering that little voice that whispered, you are a girl.

The other voice in my head, my ego, kept me scared an didn't let me come near this.

You cannot live off of other people. Eventually it turns sour. Relationships start to go bad. Depression and Anxiety start to rear their head and eventually start to turn into illness and possible dis-ease.

I am not saying that this is you, but I do hear something in your story that is very similar to mine.

I didn't know that the feeling I experience in my life was dysphoria. I lived with it. It was a major nuisance, but I did the best I could while trying to figure out how to feel better.

But the older I got, the worse it got. Eventually, my resistance to myself and all of the running manifested into chronic illness. My body was screaming to be acknowledged. That little girl in me wanted to be heard.

Dysphoria gets worse as you get older unless you accept what or who you are dissociating from and embrace it.

Eventually I started to resent my family and friends in my 30's because I lived for them and I no longer got the attention I did when I was younger.

I don't understand being trans most of the time, but I do feel more like myself. Things are more challenging than ever, but they also feel easier, if that makes sense. It feels more authentic. The farther I go with this, the more hopeful I feel that I will live a life that is real for me.

If you would have asked 3 years ago if I was a  transwoman and interested in men, I would have said no and looked at you with curiosity. I was that dissociated from my authentic self But it was out of protection so it makes sense.

xx -Sophie
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BunnyBee

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
Ok here's the thing. How can you be sure it gets worse with age? People say it all the time.

I think the reason is that some of us have been around the block and when we see somebody taking the first steps toward going into full-blown denial we want to save them from where that leads.  I don't mean to say I think you are in denial now, but just that you cooould be headed in that direction.  Many of us have been down that road before and really would love it if (unrealistically) nobody else had to go through that experience.

I think pretty much everybody here that has actually gone through getting older will tell you the dysphoria gets worse if you don't address it and, in time, becomes no joke to deal with.  You have very good odds of being like everybody else, and very poor odds of being luckily unique in this regard.

I think you need to do whatever feels right for yourself and transition may or may not be right for you now or even ever, just please don't ever start telling yourself you got over it.  If you have dysphoria and you don't want to transition, therapy is probably a very good idea, if not a must.
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DelKay

I think some other people might have touched on it but I kind of wanted to point something out. Being a male or female doesn't mean you have to wear pants to be a guy and a dress to be a girl. There are other things you can do to be comfortable with who you are. Not comparing yourself to other trans people is also a really big help. Like you I realized that a lot of other trans people felt gender dysphoria since they were very young. And here I was 18 and feeling "curious". What I struggled most about the whole trans thing was not about being trans but, like you, "IF" I was and that was because I was comparing myself to others.
I can only speak for myself and I'm not sure if it's the same for you. I can't tell you how to overcome certain obstacles because it's not a step by step process. It just kind of clicked one day, while I was playing therapist with myself on my walk to work, that I don't need to compare myself to others for self validation. I am who I am so let's roll with it. I like wearing A, B, C, and D and this is the kind of person I want to express myself as. I'm gonna do it and I'll be happy about it. I'm not a complicated person and I need to break things down for them to be simple or else my brain gets fuzzy. Basically what I'm saying is you need to express who YOU are and if you find a partner, make sure they are A OK with who YOU are. Like every single other human being on this planet. (:
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Beverly

Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
Ok here's the thing. How can you be sure it gets worse with age? People say it all the time.

Well, all you have to do is wait. You will soon find out for yourself.


Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PM
I don't want to offend anyone, and it's probably healthier to be able to deal with this feeling, I mean if my body was built differently and if heaven forbid I didn't have any family or friends, I'd pursue transition for sure, maybe even only if the former condition was satisfied.

Do you think that the rest of us MTF types were alone, no friends, no family and non-male bodied?


Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PMI know people talk about you have to do what makes you happy, but being  liked by friends and family does make me happy, regardless of how I would rather be seen, being able to experience life free from any discrimination, stigma or limitations because of my appearance makes me happy, so these are all things that factor into the decision and why I am content to say the right thing to do is to leave it alone.

All perfectly reasonable points. I once took exactly the same stance myself. However there may come a time in your life where the driving urge to be yourself, to be authentic, overrides all of these concerns and when that happened to me transition was inevitable. It may happen to you, but it does not sound like it is happening yet.


Quote from: orangejuice on April 06, 2015, 06:32:02 PMwhat would you say to the counter argument that people who have questioned their gender identity in the past, decided to put it behind them, and have gone on to lead happy and content lives in their assigned gender, wouldn't exactly be coming on to sites like this or making the fact that they had at one point questioned their gender public in any way?

True enough. I can only speak for my own experience and that of others I know. What I can say with regard to the point you are making is

1) I would expect some people somewhere to come forward and say something but there seems an absence of such people with one exception.

2) The exception seems to be those backing religious conversion therapy. They seem to be the place that we see the "I conquered my need to transition" brigade. I have no idea if such people are truly happy but I know it would not work for me.

The other thing I will add is that you seem to be following a similar path to that which many of us have travelled. It starts with questioning, then worry, then denial, then "dealing with it", sometimes shame, then denial, anger, denial, panic, resistance, no no no no, honesty, coming out, relief.

The title of this thread is "Maybe I am not trans?" which is a question. To answer your question I would say that to me you sound like you have some degree of trans-ness but I cannot say how much. Only you can decide that and the decision will be predicated on finding what makes you comfortable with yourself. That will require you to be honest with yourself and others. At this point, you do not seem to be ready for any degree of "coming out" other than discussing it with anonymous people on this forum. That is fair enough and a good place to start. You will simply have to wait and see where this journey takes you. Try and keep an open mind and do not choose a destination, the right destination will make itself obvious when you are ready.
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orangejuice

Quote from: cpvwye on April 07, 2015, 04:29:24 AM

Do you think that the rest of us MTF types were alone, no friends, no family and non-male bodied?


No not at all. It's just a combination of things that for me I'm taking into account in deciding how to deal with this. And again I'm not saying others are wrong by going ahead with transition even if they are in the same position as me. Its just a bunch of things about my personality, my body, and my life specifically which means these things are weighted pretty heavily. I wish I was different but I'm not.
Quote from: cpvwye on April 07, 2015, 04:29:24 AM


2) The exception seems to be those backing religious conversion therapy. They seem to be the place that we see the "I conquered my need to transition" brigade. I have no idea if such people are truly happy but I know it would not work for me.

The other thing I will add is that you seem to be following a similar path to that which many of us have travelled. It starts with questioning, then worry, then denial, then "dealing with it", sometimes shame, then denial, anger, denial, panic, resistance, no no no no, honesty, coming out, relief.


Ye I should be clear I'm not saying that there might be people out there who are able to beat their feelings, or change how they feel. I did start with asking maybe I am not trans but like other times I have sought advice here I sort of end up coming to the conclusion that I am to some degree. It's more now that I am thinking that all things considered the best decision to take is to try and be content as I am, and understanding how bad I've got it in relation to others will help with that. I know it may seem like I am in denial but I feel I have actually been through all that. This began last summer for me. I sort of had this quite sudden and clear realisation that all these feeling from a young age meant I was transgender. I completely accepted that and it felt good. Then I started to look at what to do about it, saw a therapist for a bit and even took a testosterone blocker briefly as a sort of diagnostic tool. I feel like I've gone through that whole process and come out the other side and realised that just because I am trans, (or am likely trans) doesn't mean I have to do anything about it or that I will necessarily be happier doing something about it. I know there will always be this part of me that is unfulfilled, but either way I don't think I'll be truly happy. That sounds more depressing than I mean it. I think I can be content and have a good life as the guy that I am now, and although I wish more than anything to be female, that desire isn't going to be satisfied either way because of the physical properties of my body. That is not some conclusion I have come to overnight, and I have tried not to be blinded by my own insecurities. I have seen the amazing things that hormones can do and I have really allowed myself to consider the possibilty that they could do that for me. But my best judgement is that due to specific physical properties of my body the chances of me looking like a female to others, and looking good enough to be happy when I look in the mirror, is slim. Not impossible but slim. And if I caved in and tried to see a female in the mirror all the time then that unhappiness would be greater than the alternative which is feeling that pain sometimes but not all the time. Like I said when I can ignore it, or let it pass over me without getting too worked up or acting on it, I feel good. I think that is the key part for me that is maybe different to others. If I do that then I feel happier everyday and more confident and content with who I am. If I was outwardly identifying as female then obviously it would be at the forefront of my mind 24/7. The better choice just seems to be doing what I have done the past month.

If I really had guts I'd be completely open about how I feel with friends and family even still. Come out, as it were, without changing a thing. I think that would be really helpful in making people realise how dumb a lot of our perceptions of gender really are. But I'm not that brave unfortunately.
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