tick.. Clocked! after ffs!!!

[shedevilcanada]

For some reason I just feel completely un fixable.

your not the only one, I have the same problem
I had full FfS in Peru then revisionnal FFs and still being called sir 

I think I need DD breast maybe it will take the attention off of my face

[kelly_aus]

This may sound silly.

Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).

I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.

Works for me, Cindy..

[AmySun4400]

I don't believe in 50 percent passing, I believe someone is either passable or not.  Passing takes a long time.  For me it took a few years.  It wasn't because of surgery but more hormones and softening everything, then combined with practice and living in the role.  Surgery only does so much, and I find with surgery less is more.  Too much surgery looks odd and often times brings attention and people start looking crazy. 

In my early years I thought I was the BOMB, and I thought no one knew.  I find a lot of trans go through this stage of denial.  For me, it took actually becoming passable to see the difference in experience than my younger years.  Is it possibly that you are just more aware?

Agree with the intention of you post 100%.  But really it depends, some people tend to overestimate their ability to pass, and others tend to be hypercritical and severely underestimate their passability.

[possessed]

Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident

[thegreenrabbit]

Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident

I agree. Confidence and voice is the key. Confidence to look em in the eye and voice to remove any doubts.

[Charlotte2]

Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum  thread 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html

Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.

It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)

[Danielle11746]

Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum  thread 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html

Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.

It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)

It was easier to pass in the 90s, or even before then, people like Alesha Brevard who is like 6'1 today wouldn't pass.  Yet like you said the reaction was worse if someone did find out.  Like the book "In Search of Eve", the group of trans women stayed anonymous so they didn't educate society on who they were and then able to be picked out.  What way is better? 

[Emily E]

In my mind if you pass 100% of the time with makeup then the issue isn't your features, mannerisms, or voice rather it may be your skin.  As guys and former guys we tend not to take care of ourselves (or at least we didn't) and our skin shows it... from scars to blotchy dry skin the neglect is oblivious and when we transition most of us will correct these issues with makeup but with out makeup we still have guy skin.  I recommend at least taking a good look at your skin and if you have spots, blotches, dry skin, or big pores look in to ways to correct its issues (creams, chemical peals, laser treatment, etc...)

[Charlotte2]

It was easier to pass in the 90s, or even before then, people like Alesha Brevard who is like 6'1 today wouldn't pass.  Yet like you said the reaction was worse if someone did find out.  Like the book "In Search of Eve", the group of trans women stayed anonymous so they didn't educate society on who they were and then able to be picked out.  What way is better?

@Danielle, absolutely. I have noticed on Susans that there's been lots of women who transitioned long ago coming back for FFS, VFS, etc. I had voice surgery in Korea last year and I'm having hair transplants to correct my widows-peak later this year. I thought I was done 15 years ago. I used to think I could tell if someone had clocked me and then I found out that some people who I thought didn't know had known for years. That really unnerved me.

Also living for so long as a woman does make you more self-critical and you become aware of all the subtleties there are.

[JJohnson]

In my mind if you pass 100% of the time with makeup then the issue isn't your features, mannerisms, or voice rather it may be your skin.  As guys and former guys we tend not to take care of ourselves (or at least we didn't) and our skin shows it... from scars to blotchy dry skin the neglect is oblivious and when we transition most of us will correct these issues with makeup but with out makeup we still have guy skin.  I recommend at least taking a good look at your skin and if you have spots, blotches, dry skin, or big pores look in to ways to correct its issues (creams, chemical peals, laser treatment, etc...)

^This^

Your skin has a LOT to do with passing. Even just learning how to do a few quick things with makeup well goes a LONG way in passability. FFS, for the most part, doesn't do anything to your skin. 20 years of acne, no facial care, and even just bad genetics means that even after FFS, rolling out of bed on a Saturday morning and looking in the mirror, I look BAD. Will I still get ma'am'ed if I answer the door? Yes, but I wonder why sometimes, and I hate how I look when I look like that - it does nothing good for my self-esteem and dysphoria if I just stare in the mirror. But two minutes of quick makeup and a hair tie later, it's so totally a different story that it's almost spooky. Even skin tone (or just more-even-than-usual) does MIRACLES!

And who is saying that 5'8" is tall?? I'm in my mid-20s and 5'8", and compared to cis women my age, I'm just slightly taller that average but still definitely middle-of-the-pack.

[charlotte15]

About the skin, I'm thinking about a peel (laser or chemical).

I've read it's bad after you've had all your facial hair removed, but I still have some vellus.

What's the best peel to do? I have big pores, and uneven tone, even if I religiously applied sunscreen everyday. for the last few years, the damage had already been done.

[lovelessheart]

This^^^ it says you passed about 50% of the time. Before FFS. It makes me wonder, how long have you been on HRT, and how long full time?
FFS and a good voice aren't All that's needed to pass. I'm sure you are passing much more then 50% of the time now tho, so instead of focusing on the times that it's happened. Why not focus on how much better than before it is you're passing? i would automatically think of mannerisms, behaviour, stuff like that.

Another thing I have noticed is many tgirls decide they are more comfortable with no make up on, hoodies and jeans and wouldn't touch a flowery dress cause they think it's overkill. I say wear whatever is your personality without overthinking things. Height won't have much, if at all to do with it. But I am still wondering about time on HRT and full time... If you simply posted a pic on your profile it would be easy to tell you. Obviously you're the kind that isn't comfortable sharing anything on here. Which I think it's a little paranoid but we do what we can to help from whatever info you provide. Living in complete stealth from new dates and relationships isn't a very healthy thing to do either. There was a story I read of a couple in Belgium and she didn't tell her husband, many years later like 30, he found out, left her not just because she was trans but because he felt lied to and like she didn't care for him enough to tell him the truth early on or at all!! It was a very sad story. I am stealth to a degree. Only my BF and my birth family know. Expecting more than that is asking for trouble!

Anyhow many hugs your way. If you haven't at least been on HRT and full time for at least 2 years then I would argue that there's where the issue lies.

Xo

Hi, to be honest... I think im overly beautiful.. seriously. I use to get complimenta about how beautiful I was before hrt... which was 5 yeara. Ago that ivw started at age 18. My body is curvy... I am stealth. Not saying I wouldnt disclose.. im not in a relationship . No need. Its my business, no one elses. Ita my atory against theres. People hold in embarassing things that they feel about themselves as well. Im not the kind to flatter it in someones face. Unless I wanna. .

I think me not.passing is all in my head.

I was off hrt for about 9 months last year, due to being out of work. Not by choice.  So maybe during that time frame... because this is when it all happened... took place... no peole just stare and me... then when I ask people why they are staring they just say because im beautiful.. idk

[lovelessheart]

Needless to say
My skin is pretty flawless. Im always glowing. I think im overly paranoid... not of someone finding out... but only because I just want to smooth through life.. idc what people think.. its just the fact that u want to be able to have a normal day sometimes lol.

^This^

Your skin has a LOT to do with passing. Even just learning how to do a few quick things with makeup well goes a LONG way in passability. FFS, for the most part, doesn't do anything to your skin. 20 years of acne, no facial care, and even just bad genetics means that even after FFS, rolling out of bed on a Saturday morning and looking in the mirror, I look BAD. Will I still get ma'am'ed if I answer the door? Yes, but I wonder why sometimes, and I hate how I look when I look like that - it does nothing good for my self-esteem and dysphoria if I just stare in the mirror. But two minutes of quick makeup and a hair tie later, it's so totally a different story that it's almost spooky. Even skin tone (or just more-even-than-usual) does MIRACLES!

And who is saying that 5'8" is tall?? I'm in my mid-20s and 5'8", and compared to cis women my age, I'm just slightly taller that average but still definitely middle-of-the-pack.

[lovelessheart]

One thing I can say is I have a bangin body loll. Ive started hrt when I was 18 . Hips were a given

Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum  thread 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html

Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.

It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)

[lovelessheart]

Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident

Awww thank you!!
Xoxo

[lovelessheart]

Iiii really think I do this. This guy that has a desk across from me at work... kept staring at me constantly... until he finally came over and told me Im mesmerizing... I get asked/ hit on all the time... idk maybe its the things I see

Agree with the intention of you post 100%.  But really it depends, some people tend to overestimate their ability to pass, and others tend to be hypercritical and severely underestimate their passability.

[SorchaC]

When I went full time I got read all the time where I lived simply because they knew me from before, Even though I looked so much different I was well known because of my old job and my ex wife spread the rumour in the village before I returned there full time. I spent 2 years without any facial surgery trying to improve and the more I tried the worse it got. I got to the point where I decided the best way was not to care even though of course we do. I had a female Birth Certificate and Passport and I decided no matter what people thought I am a woman. It is all about confidence and experience as others have said. Now people say I pass and mostly I probably do but no matter who you are or how good you look someone somewhere will read you one day. I only wear make up when I'm going to be out all day or it's somewhere I want to look good as obviously I look better with it than without. I have days where I am not so confident going out and I feel I'm being read by everyone and them days I am more likely to be read because I give myself away.

I hope you can find a way to not be bothered by this and then I'm sure it will stop happening

Hugs

Sorcha 

[lovelessheart]

When I went full time I got read all the time where I lived simply because they knew me from before, Even though I looked so much different I was well known because of my old job and my ex wife spread the rumour in the village before I returned there full time. I spent 2 years without any facial surgery trying to improve and the more I tried the worse it got. I got to the point where I decided the best way was not to care even though of course we do. I had a female Birth Certificate and Passport and I decided no matter what people thought I am a woman. It is all about confidence and experience as others have said. Now people say I pass and mostly I probably do but no matter who you are or how good you look someone somewhere will read you one day. I only wear make up when I'm going to be out all day or it's somewhere I want to look good as obviously I look better with it than without. I have days where I am not so confident going out and I feel I'm being read by everyone and them days I am more likely to be read because I give myself away.

I hope you can find a way to not be bothered by this and then I'm sure it will stop happening

Hugs

Sorcha 

So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.

[deeiche]

So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.

Damn, I hate the phrase "clock".  People are stupid, face it.  They base their observations on stereotypes.  Many cis women get taken for men, not because they are shaved head butches, but because they don't meet societal norms.  I've played a lot of team sports over the years, with a lot of cis women.  They are muscled, athletic women, who don't wear makeup all the time, they don't wear girly clothes.  Also, they present an air of confidence that a lot of women who've been brought up in a male dominated culture don't have.

This perception that you need to wear makeup all the time to "present" female is ridiculous.  I'm an engineer, and work at a facility with a lot of female engineers.  Do you think they all layer up with makeup everyday?  No, they are no nonsense women who know who they are and they have a job to do.  I'm also part time farmer/rancher and interact with a lot of "salt of the earth folks".  These women don't layer up with makeup, nor wear sun dresses all day.  They get up in the morning, drive tractor, births calves, work in the field, etc.  You doubt they are female and you'll get wacked up the side of your head.

I should go back to the shadows.

[SorchaC]

So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.

Sadly yes no matter how good you are someone somewhere will work it out one day but that doesn't mean they'll say anything nor should they. If someone was presenting as female most decent folks would address them as such unless they were making the point they'd worked it out or thought they had.

When I went full time I had a cis friend who would hang out with me and she got read as trans often even though she wasn't because she worked as a lighting coordinator in a theatre and was always in her scruff without make up because she had to climb rigging or go under stages so was hardly going to go out all dolled up. People are just cruel or their own lives are such a mess that they feel better about themselves by making someone feel worse than they do. I've no idea what you look like but I'm sure you're a lovely woman so try not to let what people think of your appearance spoil your happiness

Hugs

Sorcha