Booked With Haben

[anjaq]

Hi Cadence Jean. I am interested in something that came up in another thread. The question is, what happens to your voice break, or ther transition from chest to head voice with CTA - is it still there, does it shift or change - do you only have chest voice or only head voice now - or do you have a mixed voice that has chest- and headvoice qualities but does not have a transition zone or passagio between two different registers anymore? CTA should in theory eliminate the voice break.

Also, do you know if the CTA does make your vocal range smaller a lot? One of the two pitch controlling muscles is disabled by it, so I figure, the vocal range has to be smaller and since the break from head to chest voice comes from the interplay between these two muscles, it should also not happen anymore when one of them is disabled by CTA.

I am very curious about this.

Thanks, Greetings

[Cadence Jean]

At this point, I have trouble differentiating. It all seems smooth,  but it pretty much did before. I can tell you that dropping as low as I can has a different quality to it now. It has less resonance. It sounds more like a woman imitating a man, but not quite. It's hard to out my finger on. My new falsetto is higher and... I guess more easily controlled. It's like the break between the two has smoothed a lot. I will say tho, that my cords are still healing. My falsetto cracks and it's more difficult to get breath out when I use it - it makes my cords sore to use it too. I hope it comes back because I need it to whoop at concerts. Lol

[anjaq]

I am not sure what you mean by "falsetto" - so is that a different register - with a different sound to it than your normal voice? Or do you just refer to it as your upper pitch area?

I think part of what you describe probably is more from the glottoplasty than the CTA - I had Glottoplasty only and I have the sam thing that going low in voice sounds like a woman doing a low voice and trying to do a male voice sounds also similar to other women trying to do male voices.

However for me it is interstingly in a way reverse in that I can get crystal clear sounds out in the mid to upper pitch range, when I use my head voice (I can feel the difference where it breaks from chest to head voice at the C4) - but if I go lower in my chest voice (about C3 to A3), I loose a lot of air, cannot hold a note as long and the quality is a bit more rough - then if I go in the very upper area, I get constrictions - so the notes will be more breathy and have less volume and sound sort of squeezed. But this is talking about the very upper range above the C5.
I definitely have a rough spot though at the C4 where the voice break is and am interested in how the voice break feels like - or if it still exists with CTA.
I guess its too early to ask for an assessment of vocal range (lowest to highest possible note)?

[Cadence Jean]

Yep, too early. Hehe Still healing. I am awful when it comes to pitches, octaves, notes, whatever. Lol I can tell what's higher and what's lower, but as far as actual notes and breaking into different octaves, etc, I'm clueless. What I consider falsetto is the very top of my range. The sound I get when I restrict my larynx to what I assume is a miniscule hole or slit, and then force air through it. It's the high pitched sound you hear women make at concerts when they're screaming to the band. I dunno how else to explain it. I've never really felt like I had breaks between "head" and "chest". I've only noted a rough patch going into falsetto. Sorry I can't be more analytical about this stuff. It's not my area of study. :/

[kwala]

Yep, too early. Hehe Still healing. I am awful when it comes to pitches, octaves, notes, whatever. Lol I can tell what's higher and what's lower, but as far as actual notes and breaking into different octaves, etc, I'm clueless. What I consider falsetto is the very top of my range. The sound I get when I restrict my larynx to what I assume is a miniscule hole or slit, and then force air through it. It's the high pitched sound you hear women make at concerts when they're screaming to the band. I dunno how else to explain it. I've never really felt like I had breaks between "head" and "chest". I've only noted a rough patch going into falsetto. Sorry I can't be more analytical about this stuff. It's not my area of study. :/

Your explanation says a lot and seems to be in line with what I suspect about the CTA creating a sort of permanent mixed voice as your normal speaking voice.  How are you feeling this far into recovery?  Any new findings?   Thanks as always!

[Cadence Jean]

Not really anything new. I've noticed that I still have several "versions" of my voice. Like, when I'm stressed in a meeting, my voice gets... I dunno, strained sounding? When I'm happy, it's higher pitched... When I'm relaxed, it takes on a different quality too. In any case, it seems like if I talk for extended periods my cords get scratchy and it sounds like I have mucus buildup on them. Not nearly as bad as the surgical laryngitis. I think it's my body sending mucus to them to ease them as I overuse them. According to my SLP, the body produces copious amount of mucus to coat the cords in after trauma. It's trying to develop a barrier to protect the cords as they heal. So, that's theory on why my cords gets kinda hoarse after using them for a while. The only other couple things of note would be, I notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there. Lol Maybe that's what granulation feels like?  It's not very painful, a little uncomfortable and it goes away quickly. The other thing is that the scar is looking better and better. It's flat, except for the little bump that I mentioned before. That bump hasn't gone away yet. It looks a bit smaller, but by no means gone. It's a pretty small bump, all things considered. Maybe five percent of the whole incision, and probably nobody notices but me. Lol It's raised a bit and flat white colored. I've been massaged it and it feels like it breaks up a little and flattens, but of course it's back again after only a little while. Everything else is great! I haven't been misgendered on the phone, or through a drive thru, or in person since my surgery. XD and there's a still a bit of water retention where the exterior swelling was, but it's rapidly diminishing. And even with the swelling gone, my adam's apple is GONE. I can feel a kind of bumpy, slightly raised area under the skin on the outside of my larynx, but it' s COMPLETELY not visible through my skin! XD Some times I still cup my hand around the front of my neck, and grin from ear to ear. Lol I am overjoyed that ->-bleeped-<-ing adam's apple is gone!!

[kwala]

Not really anything new. I've noticed that I still have several "versions" of my voice. Like, when I'm stressed in a meeting, my voice gets... I dunno, strained sounding? When I'm happy, it's higher pitched... When I'm relaxed, it takes on a different quality too. In any case, it seems like if I talk for extended periods my cords get scratchy and it sounds like I have mucus buildup on them. Not nearly as bad as the surgical laryngitis. I think it's my body sending mucus to them to ease them as I overuse them. According to my SLP, the body produces copious amount of mucus to coat the cords in after trauma. It's trying to develop a barrier to protect the cords as they heal. So, that's theory on why my cords gets kinda hoarse after using them for a while. The only other couple things of note would be, I notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there. Lol Maybe that's what granulation feels like?  It's not very painful, a little uncomfortable and it goes away quickly. The other thing is that the scar is looking better and better. It's flat, except for the little bump that I mentioned before. That bump hasn't gone away yet. It looks a bit smaller, but by no means gone. It's a pretty small bump, all things considered. Maybe five percent of the whole incision, and probably nobody notices but me. Lol It's raised a bit and flat white colored. I've been massaged it and it feels like it breaks up a little and flattens, but of course it's back again after only a little while. Everything else is great! I haven't been misgendered on the phone, or through a drive thru, or in person since my surgery. XD and there's a still a bit of water retention where the exterior swelling was, but it's rapidly diminishing. And even with the swelling gone, my adam's apple is GONE. I can feel a kind of bumpy, slightly raised area under the skin on the outside of my larynx, but it' s COMPLETELY not visible through my skin! XD Some times I still cup my hand around the front of my neck, and grin from ear to ear. Lol I am overjoyed that ->-bleeped-<-ing adam's apple is gone!!

That's wonderful!  Love the story about cupping your neck and grinning

[runaway]

I just booked with Haben for September!

[Cadence Jean]

Congrats! I hope all goes well for you!

[Lunarain]

I notice some times when I swallow, I feel a little bit of... Kinda pain, and this feeling like there some gravel in there? On the left side. Like, gravelly tissue? Almost like the tissues not flat, and kinda rubbing against another piece of something in there.

Same here! I believe that we all frequently swallow our own saliva without being consciously aware of it. But now not only am I aware of it, I put a some effort into it. In general, I'm now acutely conscious of the existence of my throat! They say that you don't feel your body parts until you get sick. I hope this will come to pass once my throat has completely healed.

[kwala]

I just booked with Haben for September!

Congrats!  I'll be there in October.  Did you decide which procedure or combination of procedures to have done?

[runaway]

Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.

What about yourself?

[Dena]

Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.

What about yourself?

I didn't want the triple and Dr Haben agreed because I already she the trach shave and he feared my larynx might be compromised ( it wasn't). In addition I wanted the range in my voice and he felt I could get the pitch I needed with out the triple.
I wouldn't worry about the sutures failing but the more important question is why he feels a triple would be a better option for you. I would think it comes down to one of two reason. 1. Your voice is so low it can't reach the feminine range or 2. The pitch range he wants to target for you needs the additional push a triple would provide. It may come down to a question of living with a lower voice to avoid the triple.

Dr Haben seems to be pretty good at determining the surgery outcome though he had a bit of a problem with me because of my cord issues. As it is, he exceeded the pre surgical  promise and it currently looks like I might be at the upper end of the post surgical range. Make sure you understand why he favors the triple for you and what the results will be without it.

[kwala]

Hi kwala, I definitely want the glottoplasty and tracheal shave, but I'm on the fence about the CTA procedure. Dr Haben recommended the triple, but I'm just wary about permanent sutures that could possibly come loose for some reason.

What about yourself?

I'm going with just the glottoplasty alone.  I'm a clarinetist and the thought of someone cutting my neck open is a little too scary so I'm going with the least invasive option.  The girls who have had the triple and shared results here all sound FANTASTIC, so it's tempting but I'm already taking a small risk considering my career and I'm not willing to do anything too drastic.  I'd love to be rid of my adam's apple, but again I think my career has to come first.  Maybe someday, but for now I'll settle for an improved voice. 

[runaway]

You got it right, Dena. I have a low speaking frequency (120hz or C3), in addition to mild dysphonia and glottal fry due to temper tantrums and screaming fits as a toddler, and military service later on.

I think I'm nervous because I've never had any major surgery before, and I have an aversion to having any foreign objects in my body. I have no piercings or tattoos and needles make me uncomfortable, so this is a huge step for me.

My biggest fear is being stuck with a weird Minnie Mouse-type voice, or becoming mute due to a mishap.

I understand what you mean, Kwala. Prior to transitioning, my voice helped me hide because it was deep, husky, "sexy" even, according to friends. Over the last week or so, I've had a few panic attacks due to anxiety that I'm making a big mistake that I might regret later, or that I should have gone to Yeson, or that Dr Haben will make his biggest mistake when it's my turn to go under the knife.

Then I come here and read this thread, and feel better immediately. So thanks again, Cadence and Dena.

[Cadence Jean]

Certainly! I feel good knowing I'm helping you in my own small way get through your anxiety. Haben is a pro. I bet you'd have more risk of throat mutilation by driving down the road. Lol

[Dena]

You got it right, Dena. I have a low speaking frequency (120hz or C3), in addition to mild dysphonia and glottal fry due to temper tantrums and screaming fits as a toddler, and military service later on.

I think I'm nervous because I've never had any major surgery before, and I have an aversion to having any foreign objects in my body. I have no piercings or tattoos and needles make me uncomfortable, so this is a huge step for me.

My biggest fear is being stuck with a weird Minnie Mouse-type voice, or becoming mute due to a mishap.I

I am with you on tattoos and piercings as I don't even have pierced ears. This only visible surgical scar is on my neck as the result of the trach shave. That's not a bad track record for 7 surgeries and I hated every one of them.

As for the Minnie Mouse voice, the triple is only limited to about 80 Hz meaning that with a starting pitch of 120 Hz you will not even be able to reach middle C which is the "average" female pitch. The voice will sound feminine but not high feminine. Now Dr Haben has unlocked far more range in my voice than I expected and I suspect I could make a Minnie Mouse sound with an effort but that's not where the normal speaking voice is. Like you I will end up somewhere around 190 and 220 Hz as long as I pay attention to my speaking voice.

Glottal Fry might have caused damage to your cords and if so, that is something Dr Haben will clean up if possible. It might earn you a month without speaking if he can repair the damage. Fry should be pretty easy to avoid with speech therapy and I suspect you haven't had any. My chest voice would have been 100 hz or less but my mouth voice was a bit over 130 Hz making it possible for me to avoid the triple. If you had therapy, I would have expected your voice to move in the range of 150 to 160 hz with the mouth voice eliminating the need for the triple.

This is why I am a big fan of therapy before surgery because the surgery only provides pitch and except for IKate so far, therapy is needed to understand the voice and to make it shine. By knowing what your voice is able to do before hand, Dr Haben's words will mean much more. Once I understood how my options were far more limited than the average patient I had to adjust what I expected out of the surgery to the new reality and make a new decision in seconds. I might not have been able to do that had I not understood my voice and my options as well as I did.

[Cadence Jean]

11.5-ish week update:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s09alUIobfzp

This is after about six weeks or so of voice therapy too.  Still healing, and still loving the results.

For comparison,

Relaxed before: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ShlOrkxg8V

Trained before: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1sSyKAXjFcc

I think my voice sounds less forced and more natural now.

Also!

Here's an example of the deepest I can get my voice now: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0NCEYOjNrCs (compare to relaxed voice above and it's still a higher pitch!)

Here's the "highest" that I can get my voice - except it has lots of cracking and straining and makes my cords sore   http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mOCyG1qNfd

[Cadence Jean]

Has the zeitgeist for vfs passed or is my after recording bad enough to be politely not comment on? Lol

I'll mention today that I sneezed up a piece of vocal cord or something. Lol It came up onto the tissue with a small smattering of blood. It was small, like the size of a small pearl or raw tapioca kernel. It was slimy, but it didn't give much when I pressed it. It was almost perfectly round.

Anyway, I called Haben's office, his front desk girl spoke with him, and they called it a "scab". I had just coughed up a "scab". It's one weird looking scab...seems more like scar tissue or granulated tissue that my body eventually expelled. She said it's nothing to worry about unless I say that coughing up a bunch of blood. I have much less of a hitch in my throat when I swallow now. This must have been the culprit that my larynx or whatever was running over or dragging around inside my neck!

If anybody is really interested in pictures, I can post them.

[Lynne]

I just listened to all your available recordings, and all I can say is what I always seem to say in these threads that your voice sounds great and I can hear it improve by every recording you make. Seeing all these great results I would do this surgery without hesitation if I had the money but until then I'll have to get the most out of my voice with training.