Soy and estrogen..

[Damara]

I've been vegetarian for a few months now, and I was thinking today that I really need to increase my protein intake. I haven't really been getting enough. It seems that a great source of protein are soy based foods. I've read that soy can cause the formation of a kind of estrogen.. anyway, I was wondering if this phytoestrogen inhibits or somehow interacts negatively with HRT. Thanks all!

[katrinaw]

Hi Damara, best avenue for checking is your Endo / Dr as it could stuff up the fine balance of Hormones in your Endocrine system.

L Katy 

[Laura_7]

Well I'd say think of it like that... they connect to estrogen receptors.
If you already have enough estrogen in your system, it does not seem advantageous to me. The effects of estro on receptors are said to be stronger.

But it might also depend on how it makes you feel.

A good idea might be to talk it through with your endo.

I'd be careful with soy to come from organic, non gmo sources.

A great source for protein could be lentils and beans, you could look up which beans in particular.

hugs

[Jill F]

From the oversimplistic version I heard is that phytoestrogens will compete temporarily for estrogen receptors that would be better filled with bioidentical estrogens as far as feminization is concerned.  I have no idea to what degree now, but I have soy products a couple times a week and don't really worry about it.  I'm still feminizing well.

This is a great question for your doctor.

[Ms Grace]

I've been vego for 28 years now - my diet includes soy products but not in huge quantities and I personally haven't been having trouble with estrogen issues but of course everyone is different.

The thing about protein with a vego diet is diversity. If you aren't including dairy or egg then you will need to include a protein source in pretty much every meal, fortunately that isn't too difficult. The more variety you use with your protein sources the better - yes, soy is good but so are the majority of beans and legumes. Grains (rice, wheat, oats, etc) and nuts/seeds - the less processed the better - will also help with protein intake, especially if combined in the meal with beans/legumes. Try and avoid the overconsumption of process sugars and alcohol and you should do OK. Check with a doctor to make sure your various levels are OK - mine was convinced my iron and B vitamins would be low when in fact it was fine (even without taking a supplement).

[Mariah]

Damara, when I first started out as a vegan and then switched to vegetarian for a little more freedom I wasn't getting enough protein and my blood results showed. So I Increased my protein intake, as Grace mentioned, there are tons of options of which soy is one. When it comes to any food or medications you take you have questions in regards to their affects on your HRT and the resulting hormone levels it's best to talk to your doctor or Endo. Good luck and hugs.
Mariah

[Ian68]

For what it's worth, in a genetically female system, it can up your free estrogen.  I'm lactose intolerant, and binged on soy products for nearly three years (soy milk/ soy cheese/ tofu/ edamame... I love soy).  In my case, I've had to go back to nonfat and aged dairy products (<1% lactose) because my estrogen levels were too high, and were causing dysmenorrhea (maybe TMI but whatever).  I personally haven't experienced any added feminization (thank God) because... I don't know why... my voice has actually dropped and other things have happened that are currently unexplained, but I digress...  Anyway, certainly the added masculinization was not tied to the soy because that began when I was very anti-soy back in college. 

The best thing is to talk with your doctor.  I don't know how it interacts with HRT in women but I know that it upped my estrogen, and in males in Japan (don't have reference), it's linked to lower levels of free testosterone.  It may be good, it may be neutral, and it's less likely to have adverse effects.

Lentils and other legume proteins are a totally safe bet unless you have issues with, I think it's ureic acid (?)...

[iKate]

Lentils and other legume proteins are a totally safe bet unless you have issues with, I think it's ureic acid (?)...

Yes, lentils can exacerbate issues like Gout by increasing uric acid. I have hyperuricemia but I take Allopurinol to help with it. 

[Steph34]

Since soy isoflavones bind to estrogen receptors, they may be beneficial for people whose estradiol level is too low to fill the receptor sites. I had somewhat low estradiol (even for a male) before transitioning, and I credit my daily tofu with slowing masculinization. (According to one study, soy reduces DHT levels). With that said, whole soy (such as soybeans, soymilk, tofu) should probably be avoided while on HRT because the isoflavones compete with the estradiol, and estradiol is a much more potent feminizing agent. I rarely eat them now, but I think I actually feminized better while I was still eating them daily. They make me moody while on injections, though.

One way to have the best of both worlds - plenty of soy protein without any meaningful dose of the isoflavones - is to eat products made from isolated soy protein, found primarily in fake meat. Otherwise, any bean should be good for protein if eaten together with a grain such as rice, wheat, or oats. Quinoa provides high-quality protein, too.

I have been vegan for 8+ years, so these are familiar subjects for me.

[mfox]

I've been vegan since I was 16, and drink about a liter of soy milk a day (some of that from soya lattes) because of its high protein, Calcium and Vitamin D content. Studies say isoflavones (phytoestrogens) are too weak to have much of an impact on circulating hormones, even in adults even drinking 1000 ml a day:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/

"One of the most recent of these (studies) followed 34 women consuming 100 mg of isoflavones per day for a year and found no changes in luteal phase levels of estradiol, estrone, progesterone, SHBG, FSH or LH at months 1, 3, 6 or 12 [162]. Another also failed to find altered circulating gonadal hormone levels in 14 women given soy cookies containing 52 mg of isoflavones or isoflavone-free cookies for 5 days."

(100 ml of soy milk has 9.8 mg of isoflavones)

From the oversimplistic version I heard is that phytoestrogens will compete temporarily for estrogen receptors that would be better filled with bioidentical estrogens as far as feminization is concerned.  I have no idea to what degree now, but I have soy products a couple times a week and don't really worry about it.  I'm still feminizing well.

However Jill is right, I found some evidence that says phytoestrogens might have a negative impact specifically on breast development and breast cancer, so now I'm thinking of switching to almond milk:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/soy-isoflavones#estrogen-receptor-independent-activities

[kelly_aus]

Let's also not forget that soy milk is an environmental nightmare.. The manufacture of soy milk requires 3 litres of water to produce 1 litre of soy milk - this doesn't include the water required to grow the soy..

[Steph34]

in males in Japan (don't have reference), it's linked to lower levels of free testosterone.

In the study you refer to, the correlations between soy intake and total and free testosterone were only of borderline significance. Soy products are often used as alternatives to meat (as in tofu) and dairy (as in soy milk). Replacing saturated fat (the primary type in meat) with polyunsaturated fat (the primary type in soy) will slightly reduce testosterone levels in men, casting further doubt on any causal effect of the soy. The same study also found a negative correlation between soy intake and estradiol levels, an artifact of E being made from T in men. I would not worry about that. I still recommend soy to trans women who are unable to obtain HRT because it cannot hurt and might help, especially in the right dosage.

Let's also not forget that soy milk is an environmental nightmare.. The manufacture of soy milk requires 3 litres of water to produce 1 litre of soy milk - this doesn't include the water required to grow the soy..

A cow needs to drink 4 quarts of water to produce 1 quart of milk, and that does not include the water required to grow the corn and (ironically) SOY that get fed to the cow. Plant-based products are almost always more efficient from a resource use perspective and friendlier on the environment, and this is no exception.

I'd be careful with soy to come from organic, non gmo sources.

I second that. Just say no to GMOs.

[Damara]

Thanks all, so much for the wonderful information! I am going back on the third to see my doctor (she's a gynecologist who is very trans knowledgeable).. I will ask her what she thinks!