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Seek info at work before coming out?

Started by Jacqueline, May 25, 2015, 12:54:20 AM

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Jacqueline

Good morning all,

I am nowhere near coming out in public or at work yet. I have recently come out to myself and shortly thereafter, my wife. I have worked at the same job for 17 years.

I was wondering if there is any opinion on stealthily touching base with HR? I am curious of how they would handle this sort of thing with our employees. I am pretty sure that our policies are such that I don't have to worry about losing my job. However, would I be supported?

Is this a good idea to try to ask under the radar or is that a danger?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





  •  

Mariah

Much of that depends on company policies, your comfort, and readiness to come out. You could easly start on somethings without any problems generally though that includes HRT, but I would find out company policy as soon as you can. Hugs
Mariah
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  •  

Julia-Madrid

Hi Joanna (2nd time today :D)

You might want to have a look at the thread I started a year ago:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,159687.0.html

Companies are very different in this regard. Please permit me a combination of recommendations and my personal case.

I started with our in-house doctor, who put me in direct contact with our regional HR head.  My recommendations are to work very quietly with no more than a couple of key people initially - for example HR and your direct manager, if these people are trustable in your eyes.

A key thing is to bring a plan.  Most companies have very little experience with transgender issues.  For example, I'm the only transgender person in a company of 110,000, so there was no precedent.  I provided them with a high-level roadmap and timeline, together with sensible basic policy guidelines.  Fundamentally, you should bring them a solution, rather than a problem, with minimum effort needed from HR. 

The main area to address is reducing the disruption your transition would cause.  This is a combination of time off work for surgeries etc., as well as the way your work colleagues would perceive you and hence interact with you.  People will adjust, but it's much easier when they see a credible person with few gender contradictions, no doubt about that.

It can become harder once you get closer to going full time.  I was a boy at work and a girl everywhere else, but thankfully only for around 5 months.  It was really difficult to swing myself between personas twice a day, so going full time was a major relief.  The day before full time, I updated my professional photo on our in-house and Linkedin sites, and sent out a brief email to around 150 people in my ecosystem, inviting them to celebrate with me.  Day one I got mobbed by the women and a few brilliant guys dropped by to give me a hug. I was very fortunate.

Feel free to ask me questions.

Regards
Julia

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Dena

Many companies have a policy manual and it might contain a clause about sexual minorities. I really haven't followed all the law changes that have happened after my surgery but in my case I suspect I lost two jobs because somebody said get that pervert out of here. In those days there were no laws protecting TS workers and if nothing was put on paper you had no recourse. Most of the time they can fire you for something small that they would normally over look. Now on the other hand, I knew many other who transition on the job with only minor issues. If your company is large enough you may have a few open gays running around. How they are treated may give you an idea how you will be received. If your company is small you might be able to feel thing out by saying " How about that Bruce Jenner thing?". Do use that line with care because I don't want to be the one who gets you fired. It short, once you go to HR you are outed. My niece did that over a minor office squabble and she found herself looking for a job the following week. Do not expect HR to keep a secret because their job is to represent management and not the employe. I hope you have few if any issues but I do have to admit that moving to a new job when I switched roles saved a HUGE amount of explaining. If only finding it didn't cut into my savings so much.
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  •  

iKate

In my case it's very simple.

My first therapist said I should have a face to face meeting with HR first to ask about policy. Then once I got a feel for it explain my plans.

That's what I did. A few weeks later I told my manager. Then recently we agreed on a changeover date. We did revise the date a few weeks earlier on the advice of my current therapist.

There was no complicated anything,

But not all employers are like this.

Best to talk to your HR dept confidentially first.

Bear in mind I work in NYC so I have the law on my side. Your locale may be different.
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KimSails

In my case I contacted an LGBT organization of employees within my company.  I asked for a contact of other folks that transitioned on the job and got a couple of names.  We have lunch together about once a month to share progress and information. 

The LGBT group also gave me the name of a helpful HR person to start with.  She was very supportive, but also followed the company policies -- good and bad.  I will be required, for example, to use a unisex restroom until I change my gender marker.  This requires surgery in my area.

I next started meeting with "my" HR person, and then started including my management in the process.

Like you, I work for a company with trans-friendly policies (100% HRC compliant).  That helps a lot.

So...contact HR.  Pick a supportive HR person, if you have insight into who might be.  Keep in mind that in the end HR works for the company, not you.  Their first priority is keeping the people in the organization working productively.  It will be easier for you if you help them achieve that goal while asking for their help in achieving yours.

Kim  :)

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
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Rachel

Hi,

I work in Philadelphia, PA, USA. We have a company LGBTI policy. We are an HRC 100% company.

I contacted a senor HR person and then a senior Benefits person about 2.5 years ago. I am out to about 30 employees which means most likely many more. I presented a plan to my SVP with HR present. They really wanted a plan. I gave them a Gantt chart (I am an engineer). HR went to Legal after the meeting. The CEO and President and SVP of HR are aware. I do not expect there will be any issues at work.

There are two HR persons that are very supportive and share common interests in the gayborhood. I have received links to people coming out at work and supportive meetings, e-mails and phone calls. We have a large HR department and they are very liberal and supportive. I know they rep the company but they are supportive.
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JoanneB

I think it all depends on what sort of a company you work for. Some big/mega/multi-national is a lot different then some 20 to 300 employee total corporation. In both cases whatever the employee manual says or the "Diversity" policy or Non-Discrimination policy if you become a disruptive force, start counting your days.

Personally, I grew up in an environment and era that you don't nobody nuttin. If you are not soon to be radically altering your appearance or making other drastic changes, then why tell them anything? I was on the verge to at the beginning of the year to let the cat out of the bag to HR. Only because of the trouble I was having with BCBS over my hormones whereas Aetna there was no prob. In a year or two I just may make a change, but no time soon, if at all. Where I work is a division of a BIG multinational (is that redundant?) Yet it is somewhat autonomous having not much in common with the initials that precede our name. If/when the time comes for me to come out, what if anything I say to HR today will little to no impact in the future.
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suzifrommd

There's always a risk, regardless of who you work for. The EEOC has declared discrimination against us as equivalent to sex discrimination, so most savvy HR departments will treat us with kid gloves, but you never know.

Once you identify yourself to them, though, you are out.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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iKate

Quote from: JoanneB on May 25, 2015, 07:03:31 PM


Personally, I grew up in an environment and era that you don't nobody nuttin. If you are not soon to be radically altering your appearance or making other drastic changes, then why tell them anything?

Because if you want to come out at work you need to find out early if your job is friendly to the idea, especially if you don't have the law on your side. That's why the suggestion from my previous therapist was a generic discussion around policy. You don't go marching in and saying, "I am going to transition, accommodate me!" You ask, "I was wondering, what is the company policy on transgender employees who wish to transition on the job?" And if they are friendly you can explain your plans. If they are hostile (and the law is not on your side) you slunk back and plan your escape.
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Dena

Sometimes you don't have to plan an escape plan, it's going to happen and the only question will be what trumped up charge will they get you on. First time it happened to me I was the only person supporting a product line and the accountants made a really big mistake. I had started coming out so it would be a simple matter of slipping me into the outgoing stream. I wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't prove anything. Reason I suspect this is because the top brass of the company was real religious and they would pray in the management meetings. In addition there was a story floating around the company about a computer they were having a problem getting working  that the owner discovered when he was walking the floor. The story goes he went over and laid hands on the computer and it started working. I wasn't there and I can only report what was told to me. At least that time I could collect unemployment.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

rose_thorn

Quote from: Joanna50 on May 25, 2015, 12:54:20 AM
Good morning all,

I am nowhere near coming out in public or at work yet. I have recently come out to myself and shortly thereafter, my wife. I have worked at the same job for 17 years.

I was wondering if there is any opinion on stealthily touching base with HR? I am curious of how they would handle this sort of thing with our employees. I am pretty sure that our policies are such that I don't have to worry about losing my job. However, would I be supported?

Is this a good idea to try to ask under the radar or is that a danger?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Joanna

I never came out to anybody at work... well, not at first anyways. mostly, i just felt that it wasn't anyones business but my own. It was about 4-6 months later that it became painfully obvious to everyone that i was transitioning.

Its pretty interesting how people will change once they know what you're doing to yourself/body. Some people will like you more, others wont even talk to you :P and some people... well some people never change :)

I would wear 100% mens clothing everyday - with exception for a sports bra, that i used to hide the budding breast ;)

I never once had a problem with my employer, matter-a-factly he wrote me a powerful reference.

some things are better left private



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Julia-Madrid

Quote from: Dena on May 26, 2015, 01:15:08 PM
Sometimes you don't have to plan an escape plan, it's going to happen and the only question will be what trumped up charge will they get you on. First time it happened to me I was the only person supporting a product line and the accountants made a really big mistake. I had started coming out so it would be a simple matter of slipping me into the outgoing stream. I wouldn't have a clue and I couldn't prove anything. Reason I suspect this is because the top brass of the company was real religious and they would pray in the management meetings. In addition there was a story floating around the company about a computer they were having a problem getting working  that the owner discovered when he was walking the floor. The story goes he went over and laid hands on the computer and it started working. I wasn't there and I can only report what was told to me. At least that time I could collect unemployment.

Dena, I really hope you managed to escape from that company.  Honestly, it sounds more than a little freaky  :o

However, I would recommend that people do prepare, if not an escape plan exactly, a Plan B, or even a Plan C.  I had those approximately arranged, just in case. 

xxx
Julia
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Eva Marie

I think it depends on the attitude of the company you work for, the size of the company you work for, and the legal protections that are available to you where you live.

I work for a small IT company in Southern California. California has legal protections for LGBT people so I already knew that I had less to worry about. Still, I knew that if they really wanted to fire me there are lots of ways to do that without touching the trans angle. So knowing that I was most likely going to transition on the job I worked my butt off and took great pains to befriend people and to not make waves before the switch. I wanted to be seen as a valuable, trusted employee first and foremost. I also paved the way by making some strategic female friends and let a few of them that I really trusted know my plans ahead of time so that I would have allies afterward. This turned out to be excellent strategy because one of those women that had worked at the company for eons knew the CEO personally and knew her eccentricities. She had very valuable advice for me - that advice was to go talk directly to the CEO directly bypassing HR because otherwise it would be taken personally.

Our CEO is a very strong no-nonsense female and our company has a very strong female leadership team and strong feminine energy so I kind of guessed my chat with her would go well. I scheduled a meeting with the CEO and laid my cards on the table. She backed me 100% and that trickled down to the rest of the company because I think she made it clear that no tomfoolery would be tolerated.

Do your homework and recon ahead of time - research any anti discrimination policies the company has, talk (very carefully) to people and get to know them, figure out the company culture and attitude toward LGBT people, see what other employees attitudes are about LGBT people by slipping casual references into water cooler talk, and find out if any LGBT people have been let go in the past. If it looks favorable then start working on making female allies - they are invaluable when you come out and serve as a conduit into what other employees are thinking and saying about you.

And like Julia said - have a plan "B" in case the wheels come off - there are few guarantees in this process.
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Jacqueline

Thanks for all the generous input.

I live in NY state. Although it is imagined to be a safe place for the LGBT community, there does not seem to be true legal protection.

That being said, I have worked at the same Arts organization for over 15 years. We hire people who come from the LGBT community in permanent, seasonal full time, part time and guest artists(truth be told, there is only one trans person that I know of that has worked here for a short period of time). There are just under 100 employees.

All that said, I don't remember a specific policy against discrimination or to what degree insurance might cover any aspect (HRT, surgeries, probably not hair removal?).  I guess I kind of wanted to find that all out in detail(I find information and specifics like this easier to understand face to face). I also wanted to see about creating or being prepared for a strategy to inform people. Sounds like an exit strategy is a wise choice as well. On the upside, most everyone knows most everyone else. On the down side, I have been there a long time and everyone knows me. I guess I am just preparing for the worst after having heard some of the horror stories.

Anyway, thanks for all of the suggestions and information,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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iKate

Quote from: Joanna50 on May 27, 2015, 10:13:20 AM
Thanks for all the generous input.

I live in NY state. Although it is imagined to be a safe place for the LGBT community, there does not seem to be true legal protection.

There is no official protection in NY State for T, only for LGB, but some municipalities do have laws and ordinances. For example, NYC (5 boroughs) has a human rights law that includes T protection. It's not based on where you live, but where you work. Look up your local laws. You may be protected.


QuoteAll that said, I don't remember a specific policy against discrimination or to what degree insurance might cover any aspect (HRT, surgeries, probably not hair removal?). 

From what I gather, Insurance in NY state must cover transgender care per Governor Andrew Cuomo. This is at a minimum hormones (including doctor visits) and GRS/SRS. Other stuff like hair removal and FFS is not covered due to it being classified as cosmetic.
  •  

iKate

So it looks like you're in Syracuse.

You're in luck. City law protects you.

https://www.municode.com/library/ny/syracuse/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTLLOLA_CH8HURI_S8-4UNDIPR

Employment.

1.
It shall be an unlawful discriminatory practice:
(a)
For an employer or licensing agency, because of the sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression of any individual, to refuse to hire or employ or to bar or to discharge from employment such individual or to discriminate against such individual in compensation or in terms, conditions or privileges of employment.
(b)
For an employment agency to discriminate against any individual because of her or his sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or that person's actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression, in receiving, classifying, disposing or otherwise acting upon applications for its services or in referring an applicant or applicants to an employer or employers.
(c)
For a labor organization, because of the sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression of any individual, to exclude or to expel from its membership such individual or to discriminate in any way against any of its members or against any employer or any individual employed by an employer, because of her or his sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression.
(d)
For an employer or employment agency to print or circulate or cause to be printed or circulated any statement, advertisement or publication, or to use any form of application for employment or to make any inquiry in connection with prospective employment, which expresses directly or indirectly, any limitations, specification or discriminations as to sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression, or any intent to make any such limitation, specification or discrimination.
(e)
For any employer, labor organization or employment agency to discharge, expel or otherwise discriminate against any person because she or he has opposed any practices forbidden under this law or because she or he has filed a complaint, testified or assisted in any proceeding under this law.
2.
It shall be an unlawful discriminatory practice for an employer, labor organization, employment agency or any joint labor-management committee controlling apprentice training programs:
(a)
To deny to or withhold from any person because of her or his sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or that person's actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression, the right to be admitted to or participate in a guidance program, an apprenticeship training program, on-the-job training program, executive training program, or other occupational training or retraining program;
(b)
To discriminate against any person in her or his pursuit of such programs or to discriminate against such a person in the terms, conditions or privileges of such programs because of her or his sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or that person's actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression;
(c)
To print or circulate or cause to be printed or circulated any statement, advertisement or publication, or to use any form of application for such programs or to make any inquiry in connection with such program which expresses, directly or indirectly, any limitation, specification or discrimination as to sexual or affectional preference or orientation and/or actual or perceived sex, or gender identity or expression, or any intention to make any such limitation, specification or discrimination.

----------------------

There you go. Looks like you're good to go. In reality it is always best to have an accommodating employer but just in case things go South it is good to have the law to back you up.
  •  

Jacqueline

iKate,

Wow, nice detective work. Thanks for all that information. I had been doing searches at the state level.

I am not sure if Mr. Cuomo passed the insurance part but spoke about this as a goal. I may be mistaken but just not sure without searching further. However, I greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in.

With gratitude,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





  •  

iKate


Quote from: Joanna50 on May 27, 2015, 02:55:10 PM
iKate,

Wow, nice detective work. Thanks for all that information. I had been doing searches at the state level.

I am not sure if Mr. Cuomo passed the insurance part but spoke about this as a goal. I may be mistaken but just not sure without searching further. However, I greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in.

With gratitude,

Joanna

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/11/nyregion/in-new-york-insurance-must-cover-sex-changes-cuomo-says.html?referrer=


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