is it transphobic to say i only like or date cis men/women

[jeni]

IMO, unless the issue is specifically to do with genital preference for your partners, it is transphobic to discount trans men/women as partners.

I mean, it's completely ignoring everything about an individual person, and saying that because they are trans they won't even be considered. Some trans people carry baggage, yes, but so does a large fraction of the cis population. If you don't want to deal with someone else's baggage, that's fine, but it's not reasonable to conclude that every trans person is unacceptable and meanwhile claim that you're not making a phobic overgeneralization.

Not to say someone is a bad person for feeling this way. No one should force themselves into a relationship for any reason, but one ought to be self-aware.

[Squircle]

IMO, unless the issue is specifically to do with genital preference for your partners, it is transphobic to discount trans men/women as partners.

Yeah, I agree with this, but there's some scenarios that I see as grey areas. For instance, I am not attracted to men physically. If I where to meet a trans woman who did not pass, who then asked me out on a date, would it be transphobic of me to turn her down because I didn't find her attractive, for fairly trans-specific reasons (eg masculine physical traits)?

If I find someone attractive, it doesn't matter if they are cis or trans, I'd still date them (or at least ask!). Baggage is a seperate matter I suppose but it's a perfectly valid reason for not wanting to date someone. The thing not to do is to right off all trans people for this reason without considering the individual but I understand that if someone has dated 3/4/5 trans people and found the same issues that they might look elsewhere, and I wouldn't put that down to transphobia. I'll be honest, if I met someone with as much baggage as me, I'd struggle to deal with that on top of my own.

[jeni]

Not finding someone attractive isn't a phobic thing, it's just attraction (or lack thereof). The phobia/discrimination comes in when one refuses to consider the particular traits of an individual.

[FTMax]

Jeni, I do agree that you can't generalize when it comes to baggage. And FWIW, all of my cis partners have come with their own. For me, it boils down to how much more, and what kind of baggage I can help carry that won't make my own share worse. If I've already got my own backpack and rolly bag filled up to the brim, can I spare a shoulder for a duffel bag sized serving of another person's dysphoria? What if it's a whole trunk full? And how long can I carry it before I need to stop and put it down?

Doubling down on dysphoria and the related experiences and quirks quickly turns me into a bad partner. Perhaps if I was completely done with my transition and had no lingering anxiety or body image issues, it would be something to consider. Since I'm not able to afford lower surgery for the forseeable future, it seems best for my mental well being to not consider other trans partners. I'm sure I could have a great relationship with another trans person. But not anytime soon.

[stephaniec]

well, personally I'm a equal opportunity type of person. I try to not got over to the FTM side of Susan's too often because it gets pretty hot over there.

[amber roskamp]

I think it is transphobic. It's saying in my mind that they don't think trans people are as attractive then cis women/ men. When seriously they probably have checked out a trans women/man at least once in their life with out even realizing it. Even though genitals don't mean much to me, I know it is important to some people. And if someone won't date someone because their genitals aren't the kind that they like even if the rest of them is attractive to them, then I don't think that is transphobic.  You can't help what u are our aren't attracted too. The people that won't date post op trans women/men, it is clear they are transphobic. Unless if their reason was because they didn't find that individual attractive and them being trans had nothing to do with it.

[Dodie]

For me I would date a trans Man.. I am attracted to me.. It has more to do with who they are.. their personality.. Do I like being with them.. do they make me laugh and feel good about myself..
Also, I think a trans man might know how to please me  and I would know how to please him.. I think.
Anyway, for me I am ok with it totally..
Dodie

[Jasper93]

ok so I know for most this is complex and not black or white... but I have noticed this with many "trans friendly" people or even trans people themselves...this whole "im attracted to women" (or men) but what this actually means is cis women or possibly an extremely passable post op if there "really open minded"  ..... as someone whos always only liked guys, males, men, masculinity and never girls at all but who is perfectly open to dating a pre or post op ftm guy (that's if I wasn't with my current new bf of course lol) it just seems really shallow but even more so just plain transphobic...lets forget about the whole pre op post op issue for a sec and get back to that later but I just feel like its assuming one "all trans people are unattractive and not feminine or masculine looking enough for me to be attracted" two it assumes all trans people have a body that wouldn't be appealing to them for whatever reason and it reeks of "there not real men/women"...clearly number one is not true...just as some cis people wont be attractive to you many trans wont too but there are trans girls as gorgeous as kim Kardashian(Gigi gorgeous, Carmen Carrera, Jenna Talakova, and lots of those porn star girls too just to give a few examples) and ive seen some smoking ftm guys just on this site... same goes for the second as all cis peoples and trans peoples bodies are different...find fake boobs unattractive? well many trans women can have real ones too...like muscles? plenty of trans guys have them. So both number one and two are bogus and I wont even go in to number three as that shouldn't need an explanation here... the post op pre op discussion is more complex... obviously if someone is post op and you liked them until you found out they were trans rejecting them is very transphobic, but preop I think it is more complicated but I still think in most cases it is transphobic and shallow to reject someone who you would otherwise really like and be attracted to just based off a part...in general attraction and even sex are more about the whole person mentally and physically not just there parts down there...I do think how you prefer to have sex has a lot to do with whether its shallow and transphobic to reject a partner on that alone..if people want me to elaborate on what I meant on that last part I will but what are your thoughts on this issue?

I don't think it's transphobic so much as it is just being worried what others might think of you if they found out.  Of course, by the same token, I'm pretty amazed by how many guys are attracted to me, even in knowing that I'm pre-op trans MtF.  I think there will be a day where few people seriously will not care, to be honest, lol.  Like, "Oh, you date an MtF?  My last girlfriend was MtF!"  Stuff like that lol.
-Ally

[Rudy King]

Of course not!  Now it would be totally be Transphobic if you dumped someone if you found out.

[Zoetrope]

You could find out any one thing about somebody, and if you disagree with it, it can make that person less attractive to you.

It could be something serious, or something quite trivial. But either way, what we find attractive is influenced by how we feel about things.

Does it make someone a 'phobe', if they have a different point of view? Of course not.

Indeed, to deny people the liberty of difference is the flip side of the same coin.

[Zoetrope]

For me, it boils down to how much more, and what kind of baggage I can help carry that won't make my own share worse.

I do understand this.

For me it comes from a mental health point of view. Old-me had pretty nasty anxiety, and so I wasn't in a position to take on outside stress.

I guess, in the middle of something big, its not unreasonable for an unattached person to look for stability in a partner.

In fact that sums up my ideal choice of partner. Somebody who in general has a stable and under-control life. That makes me feel safe :~)

[awilliams1701]

I find a number of trans girls attractive, but I would have the post-op requirement. I can barely deal with my own. In general I prefer cis-girls, but I'm not against the idea of a trans girl.

[Sapphire87]

obviously if someone is post op and you liked them until you found out they were trans rejecting them is very transphobic, but preop I think it is more complicated but I still think in most cases it is transphobic and shallow to reject someone who you would otherwise really like and be attracted to just based off a part

I've actually run into this many times. Its actually put me off dating for some time now as I don't want that sort of rejection again.
To elaborate I am very stealth, only telling people after i've gotten to know them and have an idea on how they will react (don't want some major hate going on if i can tell they aren't ok with that sort of stuff).
Anyway every single person i've got out with, as soon as I have let them know (after a couple of dates) I get that rejection over a message or whatever. Never have I told them whether I am Pre or Post-op. Its just as soon as they hear I'm trans, it all flies out the window so yeah i would have to agree that it is transphobic as they are only going off the fact that I am trans and nothing else.

[ana1111]

honestly im sorta disappointed by some of these responses...some one for example said "its not transphobic just like its not racist to prefer dating a certain race"  im sorry but that is racist...being more attracted to a certain race is not necessarily consciously racist but it is unconsciously so as much of our attraction and desire is strongly colored by upbringing, society, and our prejudices, fears, and what were "supposed" to like...saying your more attracted to one race is not consciously racist but it is reflective of societies prejudices and unconscious prejudices same thing goes for trans people... as I said many perhaps most of peoples attraction preferences vary throughout history and culture...it used to be the paler the better, and men in many places actually prefer heavier women...many people argue that heterosexual men naturally are not that attracted to breasts if they are brought up in societies where there not hidden and overly sexualized...it creates almost like a breast fetish what we do in the west with boobs the same way a man in the middle east may find even very mundane parts of women extremely exciting do to them being hidden all the time under fabric ...anyways im not arguing that having a preference for certain anatomy or genitals is not valid...not saying that at all but some of these replies are a bit surprising to me...obviously im not at all directing this at everyone or any one person...but how can you expect others to love and wanna be with you if you want nothing to do with being with someone with a similar issue?

[amber roskamp]

honestly im sorta disappointed by some of these responses...some one for example said "its not transphobic just like its not racist to prefer dating a certain race"  im sorry but that is racist...being more attracted to a certain race is not necessarily consciously racist but it is unconsciously so as much of our attraction and desire is strongly colored by upbringing, society, and our prejudices, fears, and what were "supposed" to like...saying your more attracted to one race is not consciously racist but it is reflective of societies prejudices and unconscious prejudices same thing goes for trans people... as I said many perhaps most of peoples attraction preferences vary throughout history and culture...it used to be the paler the better, and men in many places actually prefer heavier women...many people argue that heterosexual men naturally are not that attracted to breasts if they are brought up in societies where there not hidden and overly sexualized...it creates almost like a breast fetish what we do in the west with boobs the same way a man in the middle east may find even very mundane parts of women extremely exciting do to them being hidden all the time under fabric ...anyways im not arguing that having a preference for certain anatomy or genitals is not valid...not saying that at all but some of these replies are a bit surprising to me...obviously im not at all directing this at everyone or any one person...but how can you expect others to love and wanna be with you if you want nothing to do with being with someone with a similar issue?

I was too. I agree with you 100%.

[Ever]

yeah, what does it mean to be prejudiced anyway? isn't it to make a pre-judgment about, in this case, your compatibility with someone else on the basis of some non-essential feature? 

there's some implicit bias being expressed in some of these replies.  there's assumptions about how someone will be simply because of whether or not they are trans.

I guess not everyone here is gay or lesbian, but if you are, one thought experiment might be: would you date yourself? and if you wouldn't, should that preference change or not change your thoughts on whether you would date another trans person?

[AndrewB]

I'll place here as a disclaimer that I'm pretty much strictly attracted to men, cis or trans. I think my aversion comes not from the possible reasons mentioned by the OP but somewhat from ftmax's reasoning (though I didn't realise it until he pointed it out) plus a little bit of my own preferences. I have long since dissociated genitalia with gender/sex, so that part doesn't really bother me, if I'm considering a guy at face-value. That being said, I am attracted to the overall 'image' of a man, so there might be some people that disagree with me, but to me if a guy, cis or trans, doesn't fit my image of an attractive manly man, I'd probably be less likely to date him; it's one of the reasons I'm not generally interested in non-binary/gender-fluid peeps, because I'd only be physically attracted to their more masculine side, and that's definitely not fair to them.

I'm also horrible at helping people with their baggage, esp. when it's due to mental illness; my best friend has depression and anxiety and I know just trying to help her during her lows drains me enough, let alone if I was dating someone in a similar situation. I can handle general baggage, bad days, etc., but I have a hard enough time dealing with my own issues with being trans; I'm going about as stealth as I can, and plan to continue that through college (and thereafter) so dating someone that might try to bring me out of my little stealth world, mentally or socially, would be a deal breaker.

As a last note, I also get a lot of guilt when I experience certain things that other trans guys I know have not, such as HRT and its developmental milestones—such as facial hair—or surgery approval, or even legal milestones like name and gender change. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I feel like I have to set my elation aside, even if it's only me that feels that I have to.

[ana1111]

it really brings up the topic how trans people are so often completely asexualized, made to look undesirable in a sexual way, and made to feel guilt and shame about there own bodies and sexuality... I see this a lot from cis people but honestly even more so from a lot of trans people (especially mtf) people themselves...I realize some trans women may truly be asexual, celibate for whatever reason, or so dysphoric that they choose to reject sexuality because it makes them uncomfortable about there body etc...and those are all valid reasons and choices for yourself (and yes I know one and three aren't usually choices) but I see so many trans women complaining on the fact that trans women are supposedly "over sexualized" and "sexually objectified" and I see very often trans women shame other trans women for being at all sexual whether in how they dress, there job, or even if they choose to have any kinda sex before surgery they are some how looked at as less trans... and giving everyone a bad reputation...at least, this is what ive noticed and the way it seems to be in the community. The thing is everyone is "over sexualized" women are, lesbians, gay men over sexualize men, blondes, red heads, fat women, petite skinny women, body builders....any "type" of person you can find tons of people overly sexualizing and objectifying them whether in porn or movies or whatever...the reality is probably at least 98 percent of people are sexual beings to some degree and it in general for most people is not a bad thing to be looked at as sexy or desirable but its like in the trans community if your preop and sexual your either not a "true transsexual" or your contributing to stereotypes and giving everyone a bad name...this may all sound slightly off topic but it really is very relevant as how can we expect people to want to be with us in a romantic way if we all constantly insist on being so conservative and extremely politically correct in regards to anything related to sexuality and our bodies...I just think no wonder even other mtf lesbians don't want to date another mtf lesbian...because we've all convinced everyone how, well....excuse me but..prudish, we usually are...anyways that's just something I've noticed that I think is somewhat relevant in this discussion and I think I explained it decent perhaps slightly too blunt and overly outspoken but I'm sure I made the point

[Jill F]

Locked.   

[stephaniec]

well, I think one of the problems in our perception of each other as trans is that for a very long time until very recently the public was only aware of trans people through the nightly news or the exploitive tv shows. I grew up starting in 1951. The first time I knew of another lifestyle for transgender was 19 months ago when I joined Susan's. For all those years the only perception of transgender was  the girls that worked the clubs as impersonators or the ones you saw on tv or on the street corners making a living through the sex trade and through porn video's. My perception of transgender was exclusively shaped by a limited view. I started to transition and looked for some help on the internet and came across Susan's. It was like the original  Wizard of OZ  where the movie goes from black and white to color. I was truly amazed at the diversity. I had worked with a transgender person before my own transition so I knew there was a different world than the media creation. I just never knew the extent of the diversity. One of the things that stopped me from transitioning 20 years earlier was the thought that the only way to support myself if I did was through prostitution. As far as being racist for preferring another race. It's a combination of things why you end up with a date . It's mostly opportunity from being at the right place and time to meet someone. I live in a college community where the percentage of Chinese woman and males of different race comingling is quite high. I wouldn't say these students are racist for dating outside of their own race, there's a multitude of factors why you date someone. I like Rutabaga does that make me a hater of beets. So I think are perceptions of each other have a historical hill to climb in understanding why you will or will not date someone like yourself plus all the other factors discussed. Personally as I said before I'm an equal opportunity dater. If the revolution ever gets moving faster mankind might finally find it beneficial for everyone to treat each other as they would treat themselves.