Should i stop estrogen pills when start taking Bovine ovary?

[Nadia84]

Hi everyone, i'm new at this forum, and i have a question, would be great if some one could help me with this. Well i have been on hrt for about 3 years and half, and i was thinking to take swanson ovary bovine and pituitary glandular to get bigger breasts and butt. Is it safe to mix estrofem with BO? BTW, my hrt as always been cyproterone + estrofem.

Another question is, after 6 months, if i stop BO and only take cyproterone, will be enough to stay with permanent results, i mean, will my body produce enough estrogen for itself without estrofem, or should i stop BO after 6 months and just continue with estrofem? I'm asking this, because i've heard that BO change man's estrogen production to start producing it itself like a biological female. Sorry about my english  Thanks!

[LordKAT]

First, Welcome to Susan's, Nadia.

Second, Your post was edited because we do not allow posting of dosages or talk of self medication here.

I am giving you links to the site rules and some answers to often asked questions.

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
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I would not take this bovine ovary stuff nor will I trust it to change how much estrogen your body produces. Please contact a doctor about any medications.

[Ms Grace]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to say that you should refer your enquiry to a qualified doctor or endocrinologist. No one here is aware of your medical condition, health history or family health history and any comments would be potentially dangerous. We cannot give any medical advice.

[Mariah]

Hi Nadia, welcome to Susan's. We can't give any advice on that considering we know nothing of many factors in regards to you and secondly were not MD's. I don't think any of us has heard of a doctor that would prescribe what your asking about in all honesty. I look forward to seeing you around the forums. Please consult a qualified doctor in regards to your medical and HRT needs. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

[Jill F]

I heard bovine ovaries make you grow udders, but that might just be a load of bull.  I'd talk to my endo about greener pastures if I were you.

[stephaniec]

I heard bovine ovaries make you grow udders, but that might just be a load of bull.  I'd talk to my endo about greener pastures if I were you.

I'm sorry , but that sounds udderly rediculous

[AnonyMs]

Hi Nadia,

I've been on HRT for years, but I've never heard of bovine ovary before. I did a quick search, and it looks like its a rip-off. I'm guessing its not government regulated, because its not actually a medicine and doesn't work. Things that work and are powerful get restricted. And because its not regulated you get all these businesses appearing selling it and making ridiculous claims as to what it does - its all a lie to make money.

Stick with proper HRT, the kind where you're supposed to see a doctor, have a prescription, and get blood tests to check its all ok.

Progesterone possibly has some effect on breasts, as apparently does inducing lactation (you can search both here).

There could be a number of reasons you're breasts/butt are not big enough. Maybe its just genetics, and that's all you're going to get without surgery (like many women). Or it just takes more time, or you're on the wrong HRT (find a decent doctor).

[Nadia84]

Hello again everyone, thanks for your help. I'm sorry about my hrt dosages, won't happen again, i will also read more about the forum rules, not my intention to disturb anyone. The reason i've posted my question was because i saw talking about BO on this forum, so i though it wouldn't be a problem, but anyays, i understood all coments and i will respect the rules. i was just wondering if we can talk about BO as knowledge and not advice some one or sugesting any medication. I just need to know some BO info, so i can be more prepared to decide if it's worth to take it or not, and of course that if i get info and see how does BO really works with a man's body, i will sure to get my endocrinologist advice before i taken and make exams as needed. Before any professional advice or doctor, first we need to be ourself's doctor in my opinion, then a professional can help us to take a final decision if we procced with something or not. What i'm trying to say, is what most people and trans people know, we must have our own knowledge and consciousness about things, because sometimes some medics don't even care about us really, they are not our family or a real friend, they are just some one that receive money to help us, and sometimes they say "ow, you can take this, or that, no problem", and then people die, or get serious problem, because negligence, and because the poputation have no time to have nowledge, and self decision, so some one, some guy, will decide for us. It's our body, medics and professionals can help us, and monitoring us with important exams, and for that i agree, but in future, maybe 50 or 100 years later, machines will exam us and treat us, no medics will be needed, but that's another talk.

So, can anyone tell me if BO is worth it or not for trans people? Do trans people normally take just 6 months and stop, or do they take it more then 6 months?

On this same forum, people speak about BO, and some people say that they take BO, well, if they say that, automaticlly, based on forum rules, they are in some way influencing trans, but that's not my opinion, i think it's just knowledge, and that's why i'm here, to talk, to learn, but if for some reason i'm not welcome here, i can try to go to another forum, that's ok, really  . An example, here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=159501.40   

[LordKAT]

You can talk about it, that isn't the issue. I personally never heard of it before now and based my opinion on that. I agree that knowledge is a good thing and that often you have to advocate for yourself.


You are welcome here.

[Nadia84]

Hi Nadia,

I've been on HRT for years, but I've never heard of bovine ovary before. I did a quick search, and it looks like its a rip-off. I'm guessing its not government regulated, because its not actually a medicine and doesn't work. Things that work and are powerful get restricted. And because its not regulated you get all these businesses appearing selling it and making ridiculous claims as to what it does - its all a lie to make money.

Stick with proper HRT, the kind where you're supposed to see a doctor, have a prescription, and get blood tests to check its all ok.

Progesterone possibly has some effect on breasts, as apparently does inducing lactation (you can search both here).

There could be a number of reasons you're breasts/butt are not big enough. Maybe its just genetics, and that's all you're going to get without surgery (like many women). Or it just takes more time, or you're on the wrong HRT (find a decent doctor).

Hello AnonyMs, i appreciate you comment. My hrt is fine, my levels are fine, everything is ok. Speaking about what are or aren't approved by goverments, are controversial. Most things that goverment approve are just bussiness that make milions, and therers a lot behind that. Some other things that never been approved by FDA a few years ago, it's now approved, etc. There are natural medicent that are well known that work, if taken in right dosages and resposability, medicents that have been used for ages, hundreds of years of knowledge wise people. In aother side a lot's of stuff aproved by FDA (Foods, cosmetics, etc) can be bad for your health, and people with some illnesses can get worse just by taking some processed food on a simple market, who cares? No one, it makes money. So yeah, probably goverments are the biggest liars, all the world is a big lie, so you will have to go by yourself, oh, btw, medics can also be liers sometimes, it's all about money, and laws will always defend them, not you. So i just say, that i'm here to have knowledge, not to discuss what are or not approved by goverments, goverments and democracy, are just a sistem to control people as animals, as always as been for centuries, and freedom is just an ilusion nowadays, for people that needs to bealive that.

[Laura_7]

From what I have read some producers use parts from animals. Problem is that it is not known in which phase the animal is (breeding...), so the exact components are not known. And there are obviously losses during production.

I would echo what others have said.
-talk all of this through with a doctor
-you might think about adding bioidentical progesterone, it might help with breast development and have some antiandrogen effects,
here was a thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189460.msg1687219.html#msg1687219
-talk to your doctor about sublingual intake of estrogen tablets. It is supposed to be less straining on the liver and less causing blood clotting factors, and Intake might even be a bit higher.
You additionally might spread the dose through the day for more even levels, like 4 small doses instead of one or two big ones, this might help with mood swings.

You might think about the form of application. There are transdermal, injection and even implants available. Implants can be derived from a compounding pharmacy by a doctor, they last for ca. 4 months, and some people use a dose of implanted estrogen and a dose of implanted progesterone without further anti androgens.


hugs

[Nadia84]

From what I have read some producers use parts from animals. Problem is that it is not known in which phase the animal is (breeding...), so the exact components are not known. And there are obviously losses during production.

I would echo what others have said.
-talk all of this through with a doctor
-you might think about adding bioidentical progesterone, it might help with breast development and have some antiandrogen effects,
here was a thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189460.msg1687219.html#msg1687219
-talk to your doctor about sublingual intake of estrogen tablets. It is supposed to be less straining on the liver and less causing blood clotting factors, and Intake might even be a bit higher.
You additionally might spread the dose through the day for more even levels, like 4 small doses instead of one or two big ones, this might help with mood swings.

You might think about the form of application. There are transdermal, injection and even implants available. Implants can be derived from a compounding pharmacy by a doctor, they last for 4 months, and some people use a higher dose of implanted estrogen and a medium dose of implanted progesterone without further anti androgens.


hugs

Hello,

Well, i have always been taken estrofem sublingual, don't like injections, but never heard about implants, that's new for me! I will try to know more, is there any link where i can know how they work, how they are, etc? Do trans feel better results vs pills? Is there cyproterone implants? Thanks a lot!

PS: i take cyproterone, it's already an progesterone, don't know if taken more progesterone (bioidentical) will make difference or if it's safe, since progesterone in high dosage can be very harmful... But i will try to see if my endo know about this.

[Laura_7]

Hello,

Well, i have always been taken estrofem sublingual, don't like injections, but never heard about implats, that's new for me! I will try to know more, is there any link where i can now how they work, how they are, etc? Do trans feel better results vs pills? Is there cyproterone implants? Thanks a lot!

There were a few threads about implants.
Available are estrogen, progesterone and testosteorone, the last in small doses for menopausal women or after srs, and in different doses for ftm people.
They can be ordered by a doctor via a compounding pharmacy, they deliver international. Otherwise local endos should know where they order it from.

Advantage are steady doses and less hassle, and its supposed to be less straining on the liver.

[Ms Grace]

I have an implant and for myself I find it superior to pills and injections. Lasts for at least six months but I usually get nine months out of mine. The only downside is not knowing when it's potency is dropping off so regular tests are necessary. Some endos will not have heard of them, that's because they need to be made by a compounding pharmacist and are not available over the counter or by prescription. They need to be implanted by someone who is medically qualified to do so.

Personally I'd steer* clear of BO, my Endo has never raised or discussed it with me and he is not only very knowledgable about trans endocrinology but very supportive too and has many trans clients. Something seems remarkably wrong about it.

*no pun intended

[kelly_aus]

My brief research in to bovine ovary led me straight to sites that seem to be hawking 'breast enlargement' snake oil.. A slighter deeper dig revealed that there is no real science behind the manufacturers claims. And some of the things I found were just plain scary..

[AnonyMs]

Hi Nadia,

I agree with much of what you have said, but I think I reach a different conclusions.

I agree its all about money, and there's a lot of lying going on. Not really all about money, that's an exaggeration, but its very powerful. When I said about regulation by government it was not about right or wrong, only that if its powerful it gets regulated. If it does nothing it doesn't. Its just an observation that I think its mostly true, although I'm sure there's exceptions. For me personally I'd like no regulation. If I want to buy some morphine for example, I'd like to just go and buy it. Its not my fault if other people kill themselves.

As for doctors I generally don't trust them. Unfortunately doctors do know more than I do, so even if I don't trust them I trust myself even less. I'm always double checking everything looking for mistakes, and if they make one I look for another doctor.

I don't want to spend hours or days researching this, so I'm just expressing some thoughts here. I've read lot in the past, but it was some time ago and I can't recall everything properly. You'll want to check everything yourself of course.

Bovine estrogen might be similar to Premarin which is horse estrogen and is a prescribed form of HRT. Its been used by both cis and transwomen for a long time. It works, but it's more dangerous. Its still on sale though, when safer bio-identical human estrogen is available. I'm sure that's all about money.

I believe progesterone is similar. There's a more recent bio-identical form (Microgest is what you want) but the older more dangerous one is still used. I use spiro as an anti-androgen, and its not a progesterone.

I also use an estrogen implant, as many transwomen in Sydney do. The endo here is great, and implants are awesome. I tried a progesterone implant, but it got rejected (came back out). Not sure it helps but my endo inserts a new implant when the blood estrogen level drops below 800 pmol/L. This chart might be useful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estradiol_during_menstrual_cycle.png

I personally don't like they way people refer to non-human progesterone's and estrogen's as if they were the same as human forms. They are not the same, even if some of the effects are. Premarin is a type of estrogen, but I think its a lot clearer if we said "horse estrogen" vs "human estrogen", and I know which one I want.

There may be a lot of transwomen taking bovine estrogen (but as I said though, I never heard of it before), but it doesn't mean much. Perhaps its good, but people in general do all sorts of stupid things, especially when there's money to be made selling stuff to them. Look at homeopathy or all those fad diets that appear all the time. Plenty of people believe in them, and the people pushing them can be quite convincing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

I'd guess bovine estrogen either doesn't work, or is dangerous, or both.

Apart from surgical breast augmentation, there's also fat transfer for the butt. There's an awesome post here somewhere about that. You can probably find it by searching. Its within the last year and is about 10 pages long.

[Jill F]

My brief research in to bovine ovary led me straight to sites that seem to be hawking 'breast enlargement' snake oil.. A slighter deeper dig revealed that there is no real science behind the manufacturers claims. And some of the things I found were just plain scary..

I thought "snake oil" was for penis enlargement. 

[Tysilio]

Sprinkle some cinnamon on this woman -- she's on a roll!