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Trans people , heterosexual people and that " chromosom topic "

Started by fluttershy1617, June 20, 2015, 06:11:38 PM

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fluttershy1617

Hi , I am really scaring to read topics about "People that date trans people "  there are very mean and hurtful comments, there are people that still claim trans women are men, and I am really tired to reply , they all say trans -women born male and nothing can change it, they say people born with XY and XX, so they reject trans people and it is very make me feel depressed. I think not all the heterosexual people may like trans people but all of the heterosexual people can find a trans person attractive because there are a lot of types of trans people like in cis people, they may reject to date with them but they can't change the fact that they find them attractive.. so they are not looking "chromosoms" for date but they claim that chromosom stuff..  :(
Going to start HRT
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Laura_7

You could have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190724.msg1699110.html#msg1699110

But I'd agree... people should listen to their feelings and not to what they have picked up in school or elsewhere and which is not correct...

on another note, there are also accepting people, they can also be found on the internet...
I'd not spend too much time on overly emotional sites, they should do something better with their time...


many hugs
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brianna1016

You can't expect cis people to be ok with dating a trans person.
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Asche

Quote from: brianna1016 on June 21, 2015, 08:16:48 AM
You can't expect cis people to be ok with dating a trans person.
That statement is about as true -- and false -- as pretty much any categorical statement about large classes of people.

Certainly there are plenty of cis people who get all squicked out by the idea of getting too close to someone who violates the Laws Of Gender Handed Down By Ghod on Mt. Sinai(tm).  By not dating trans people, they're doing the trans people in question a favor.

But there are also any number of cis people who date, fall in love with, and even marry people who happen to be trans, and for whom that person's transness is one of the things they love about them.  I know a few.
"...  I think I'm great just the way I am, and so are you." -- Jazz Jennings



CPTSD
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brianna1016

Quote from: Asche on June 21, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
That statement is about as true -- and false -- as pretty much any categorical statement about large classes of people.

Certainly there are plenty of cis people who get all squicked out by the idea of getting too close to someone who violates the Laws Of Gender Handed Down By Ghod on Mt. Sinai(tm).  By not dating trans people, they're doing the trans people in question a favor.

But there are also any number of cis people who date, fall in love with, and even marry people who happen to be trans, and for whom that person's transness is one of the things they love about them.  I know a few.
That's what I wanted to hear! [emoji2]
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Wynnflaeth64

Yes you can Brianna. Anyone who has a problem with dating a person because of their medical history is bigoted. That is very different from expecting all cis-persons to have a specific orientation. One can not expect cispeople to be attracted to transpeople, but one can perfectly expect cispeople to be ok with dating transpeople. Bigotry is never excusable. To excuse someone who adds an exclusionary statement to their supposed inclusive behaviour is to allow cis-privilege and bigotry to continue. To allow it is paramount to encouraging it.

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Katiepie

My super basic study on biology and introductory genetics courses in college taught me that it's not the actual chromosome patterns (XX, XY) but a gene "SR Y" which gives the whole male outcome. Even reading on studies which scientists had isolated the gene and transposed it toward an XX chromosome it had produced male. There's probably way more in depth study and other genes and processes in which derive the male or female, but this is what I can produce from my head.

So anyone that tries to use the chromosome scapegoat really are uninformed buffoons.

Kate <3
My life motto: Wake Up and BE Awesome!

"Every minute of your life that you allow someone to dictate your emotions, is a minute of your life you are allowing them to control you." - a dear friend of mine.

Stay true to yourself no matter the consequence, for this is your life, your decision, your trust in which will shape your future. Believe in yourself, if you don't then no one will.
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Cindy

Well two points. My BF is cis, straight and has absolutely no issues with dating a trans sexual woman.

The chromosome argument has been invalidated often.

There are several hundred cis females who after they gave birth were found to be XY by routine karotyping.  Pretty sure no one walked up to them and said they were not female ::)

Unfortunately ignorance among haters is bliss as far as they are concerned.
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Garry

Chromosome stuff is absolute nonsense and proves they know nothing about biology if they say such things. NO ONE knows what chromosomes they have unless they have been karyotyped. That is a fact. Making stupid statements like female = XX and male = XY is absurd and biologically wrong. There are cis men with XX, cis women with XY. Are they suddenly not now? It doesnt change anything about them

Im sick of this black and white little world too like XX and XY are the only possible options.. I did a post on my tumblr about it, here. To sum up the possible chromosome configurations:

X0, XX, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX, XY, XXY, XYY, XYYY, XXYY, XXXY, XXXXY, XXXYY, XXYYY

Y has nothing to do with being male, as said above it is ONE gene that results in male physical development, the SRY gene. It is normally located on the Y chromosome hence this connection but if it is missing or inactivated then a physical female will develop with XY chromosomes. Likewise in the absence of a Y chromosome but the SRY gene translocated onto an X chromosome a physical male will develop with XX chromosomes. Just some examples of how ridiculous it is to state things like 'you have XX chromosomes so you are female'. Wrong on both counts, chromosomes do not determine gender (or even sex sometimes), and you do not know anyone elses chromosomes

I seriously hate people who try to use 'science' to discredit someone because REAL science actually proves how utterly wrong they are

Best advice is to ignore comment sections of articles, full of bigoted, ignorant trolls with nothing better to do with their lives than spew ignorance on the internet. All it shows is they know absolutely nothing about biology, therefore their 'opinions' are completely invalid as they are factually false. There are cis people who date us, their sexuality has little to do with it they do not have to be hetero. Gay cis men will date gay trans men and vice versa, straight cis people will date us if they see us as we actually are. It is wrong to say all cis people are a certain way cause they're not. Way too many of them are bigoted and ignorant but not all of them are. My gf is cis and understands this stuff better than most trans people do. Its not impossible for them to understand and see us for who we really are. No they do not experience dysphoria to understand how it physically feels but that doesnt mean they cant comprehend the concept. Most dont but some do get it

Anyone that is ignorant or wants to treat you a certain way isnt worth your time anyway. In a way its a good thing they show you how they really feel so you know who to avoid. Most of it is just sheer ignorance on their part. They have preconceived little notions of how they think we are, most of them will never have knowingly interacted with a trans person in their life (though may have actually met some and not even known) so they are going off stupid ideas they have about us. When they see things like that arent true is when they begin to change how they view us




Top surgery soon plz..
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Deinewelt

I hate that whole argument.

Trans people are living proof that the encoding for both man and woman exists in the X chromosome, which, as far as I'm aware, all humans have.  So yeah, you CAN be be AMAB and be a woman or a AFAB and be a man.

I have an XY, but IMO, hormone therapy basically removes all effect that the Y chromosome has and activates the female genetics that are already present in the X.

Basically, the only reason transition is possible is because the genetics for both sexes exists within the X chromosome, or otherwise it would be impossible.  Since we all have it, it is a stupid argument to say that one cannot transition between sexes.
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JLT1

I don't have a big problem finding cis-women or cis-men who want to date me.  My wife seems to have a problem with them wanting to date me though.  And as we are still happily married, I guess I do have a problem... Its just not the one you were talking about.

There are ignorant people out there.  Educate them.  Rember, half of the people you meet are of below average intelligence.  Pity them and take more time educating them. 

There are people who will love you for just being you.  Love them back.

Hugs

Jen
To move forward is to leave behind that which has become dear. It is a call into the wild, into becoming someone currently unknown to us. For most, it is a call too frightening and too challenging to heed. For some, it is a call to be more than we were capable of being, both now and in the future.
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brianna1016

Woah people! Calm down! All I meant was the expecting is wrong. You can't expect cis people to date us. Quite often they do date us (ask my boyfriend)
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kelly_aus

Quote from: brianna1016 on June 23, 2015, 12:59:07 AM
Woah people! Calm down! All I meant was the expecting is wrong. You can't expect cis people to date us. Quite often they do date us (ask my boyfriend)

Why can't I expect a cis person to date me? Why should I assume that people will treat me differently because I'm TS?
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brianna1016

Quote from: kelly_aus on June 23, 2015, 01:56:13 AM
Why can't I expect a cis person to date me? Why should I assume that people will treat me differently because I'm TS?
Because some of them do treat us differently and anyone that says otherwise is lying.
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Cindy

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Carrie Liz

Aw, cute little anti-trans people who think they're smart and think that they know more than we do about biological sex because they took 6th grade biology. Seriously, every time I hear that argument I think it's just adorable.

The next time someone tries to give you that, saying that XY=male=masculine, or XX=female=feminine, give them this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296090/

Just by altering the prenatal hormone environments of developing organisms, inducing male-typical and female-typical behavior was a simple matter. Throw in things like Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, which results in XY individuals with completely female bodies, gender identities, and sexual orientations typical of cis women, and CAH which leads to XX individuals with highly elevated levels of male-typical aggression, non-heterosexual orientations, and masculinized bodies, and the entire concept of biological sex as they think they know it kinda gets thrown out the window.

So where do you draw the line there? Is someone male just because they have XY chromosomes, even though they have a completely female body, a female gender identity, were raised as girls, and have both sexual orientation patterns and behaviors completely identical to cis women? If not, what makes them girls? The fact that they were assigned female at birth? If that's the case, what about people with androgen biosynthesis deficiencies, who are usually assigned female at birth due to lacking masculinized genitals, but then at puberty when male-typical development happens, 39%-64% of them switch to a male identity? Is their male identity not valid then just because they were assigned female at birth? What makes their identity more valid than trans men then? Trans men can also be masculinized by hormones, it's just that it has to be induced rather than happening naturally at puberty. And are the remaining 36%-61% of androgen-biosynthesis-deficient people who do not switch to a male identity despite masculinizing at puberty somehow invalid? They have to take hormone blockers and estrogens to induce female development as well. So what makes them more valid than trans women?

As soon as you start looking into disorders of hormonal development, everything that you think you know about biological sex and gender identity completely vanishes.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: brianna1016 on June 21, 2015, 08:16:48 AM
You can't expect cis people to be ok with dating a trans person.

In some ways I agree with this. If someone has a problem being attracted to us, that's their right. Expecting them to change whom they're attracted to is optimistic.

OTOH, if the reason they're not attracted to us is rooted in prejudice, that is a problem. If it's because they can't accept us as our identified gender, then we should speak out against that (the refusal to accept, not the lack of attraction). We have a right to be seen as the people we are.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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HughE

Quote from: fluttershy1617 on June 20, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Hi , I am really scaring to read topics about "People that date trans people "  there are very mean and hurtful comments, there are people that still claim trans women are men, and I am really tired to reply , they all say trans -women born male and nothing can change it, they say people born with XY and XX, so they reject trans people and it is very make me feel depressed.
Contrary to popular belief, the sex you develop as doesn't depend on whether you have a Y chromosome or not, as I recently explained in this post:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190724.msg1700979.html#msg1700979

This isn't just theory either, there are thousands of people alive today who are genetically male (XY) and have a completely normal, fully functioning Y chromosome, but nonetheless developed in the womb as female, were born as baby girls, and who as adults look and behave just like ordinary women.

e.g. see this page:
http://www.secondtype.info/ais.htm


Here's a video made by one such person:


and another one:


a news clip about 2 more:

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