Femine gay guy here, really depressed...

[Elysian Fields]

So I'm a 24 yo feminine gay man whose completely miserable with life. When it comes to how I am, I'm too feminine for people. I like wearing things like underbust corsets, tight clothing, and my overall demeanor isn't manly at all. Of course in the gay community, feminine gay men are hated or disliked... It's even worse when they are attracted to masculine gay men. Constantly met with the comment of "If I wanted to date someone feminine, I'd get a real girl" and other things like that... And who could blame them? Being gay means being attracted to men...

All my life, I've always felt more feminine. When it came to music, I mostly paid attention to female singers. When it came to tv, I always connected more with female characters than male. In school, I mainly had girl friends and hardly any guy friends...

I've taken a reflection of how my life is and how it has been for the past 7 years... No friends, no lover, & no job and all it links to me as a person. Feminine men are seen as inferior in the world... I've considered trying to get a sex change. I'm tired of being a feminine guy but at the same time, it's who I am. But it's brought me nothing but sadness and loneliness... I just wish that for once, I could be truly happy but I just don't have any hope for the future.

I've always been envious of women. They can be however they want to be, wear whatever they want to wear and no one will really bat an eye. But it's not the same for feminine men. I'm just so depressed. I just wish I could find some happiness, for once in my life...

[suzifrommd]

Hi EF. Welcome to Susan's. 

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Contrary to popular belief, it's really had to tell if you're trans sometimes. I never crossdressed, never wanted to play with toys for females, always felt like a man (who wished he could be a woman). Yet I'm as transgender as they come and have been happily living as a woman for more than two years.

So when you say "that's what I am", that could mean exactly that. You're a man who likes feminine things. Or it could mean you're MtF transgender and would be happier as a woman. Or you could be non-binary gender.

I had to explore my gender before I realized I was better off as a woman. I worked with a therapist (unnecessary for some, but helpful for others), did a lot of writing, started a blog, and tried going out presenting female to see if it felt better.

Here is one of the really early posts, before I understood that I might be transgender: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119985.0.html

And I read a lot of posts from this forum.

Good luck and welcome. I think you'll find us very helpful.

[stephaniec]

sorry your having these problems, for myself I've never ever wanted to be male and I've myself have existed in an extremely sad and lonely place for all my life. I knew from day one that my problem was that me physical gender was wrong and that's what's caused all my despair . It took my a very long time to transition because of so many road blocks, but I finally am extremely happy from being on HRT. You should try a gender therapist to help you with whether or not this is for you.

[armanddelange12]

I myself have the same problems my dear. I also wish to become a woman desperately but dont really have the funds and looks like gays are even judgemental too! At least i could confide in my co-worker and here.....I wish all my luck on you for I am not openly crossdressing yet

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[JenAco]

there are so many levels between cis female or male and full blown trans.  Its absolutely possible you fit one of those categories.  I guarantee there are people like you on here.  As an example, Im genetically male, feel more female but not all female. Maybe 60/40 or 65/35ish.   Sometimes im happy as a male and sometimes not.  I consider myself non binary for that reason.  You just be who you are and you will find someone who loves you for who you are, i promise. 

[Ms Grace]

Welcome to the forum. If you identify primarily as male then getting a sex change to female is unlikely to solve your issues. I've heard of a gay guy who did get the op and regretted it almost immediately since having a penis was integral to his self identity. You might find talking to a therapist might help you sort out your sense of gender and self.

[Dena]

I feel you are somewhat confused and so am I. As long as you identify as gay, changing you sex would be a very bad idea. On the other hand, we have people on this web site that are transitioning at age 50-60 because they suppressed their feelings. You need therapy to determine if you are suppressing some of your feelings or if you identify with another group that you haven't considered yet. I hope therapy can help you find happiness.

[Martine A.]

Hi EF.

From your post, it looks like feeling of loneliness and rejection are things that bother you.
Three advises.

1) Changing yourself to fit other people is likely to make one even more unhappy.

So maybe you can revise circle of people you are in touch with.

2) Sometimes rejection is not about our gender, our dressing and whatnot. It could be about the way we communicate and otherwise interact with people. E.g. there are people who just annoy me because of way they interact. No matter how they present, I prefer to avoid them. No offense meant of course , just saying maybe the problem is not what you think is.

So maybe you can revise how you are interacting with people.

3) The post does sound like you are still defining yourself. Maybe you can meditate over one question --

If you were not rejected at all, how would you like to be?

---------

All in all, it sounds like it would be good if you could talk with a therapist about rejection; a good one should be able to spot what is the prob.

[Wednesday]

I would like to echo what michellemartine said.

Also I want to add that maybe a masculine man is out there waiting for you, who knows, I've seen couples like that.

[Martine A.]

I've seen couples like that.

Thanks for the remark, forgot to mention I know of one such couple. Now and then I also see such men happily integrated. There must be more than one place for you in this world and there is the right way to get [at least a circle of] people to like you, EF.

[runaway]

Your post resonated with me in some ways, and I hope sharing my thoughts will help you figure yourself out.

Much like you, I've always been rather feminine in the way I prefer to present myself and interact with people. However, I've always been attracted to women, and I always thought it would be easier to be a straight man, rather than to be both transgender, and lesbian. I suppressed much of my personality so that I wouldn't be thought of as gay. Not because I'm homophobic, but because being thought of a gay man was the complete opposite of who I am.

I began to accept myself as transgender when I realized that even very effeminate gay men did not like being thought of as female, or having female pronouns used on them. In contrast, I secretly leapt for joy every time someone took me for a woman, or commented that my manner of interaction, thought process, or physical appearance was female.

When I started transitioning, I pushed the issue of sexual orientation to the background, so I wouldn't conflate the two. I decided to figure out who I was, before thinking about who I wanted to be with.

You mentioned you liked wearing tight-fitting, feminine items of clothing, and I do too.

Here's a thought exercise I found useful: Imagine an outfit you would like to put on for a social gathering, maybe a dress, stockings, heels, skinny jeans, V-neck top, etc. There're two identical sets lying on your bed, the only difference is that one is labelled for men, while the other is labelled for woman. Which would you choose?

I chose the clothing with female labelling.

p.s. I'm a big fan of Elysian Fields too! Lately I've been listening to Emily Jane White. Her album "Dark Undercoat" is my favourite so far.

[Auroramarianna]

Ugh, I don't agree with some people's advice at all. Fitting in is a basic human need, we are social beings, so when OP says they are unhappy with how they are treated and how they cannot be themselves, this is a valid reason for transitioning. Everyone should be able to have meaningful connections and if OP thinks this would happen more easily as a woman, then why not?

I also don't understand the identity thing. OP has been living as a femmie gay so even if they prefer all kinds of girly things, they will only be able to completely identify as a woman when living as one.

Life as a femmie gay boy can be super hard. People shouldn't sugarcoat it. The truth  is that most gay men prefer masculine partners and this is why the OP is so lonely. Gay male culture is largerly femiphobic except in certain settings like drag.

If OP is this unhappy living as a man then they should do whatever makes them happy.just a question, do you have any body dysphoria, Elsyian?

[amber roskamp]

Hun there is nothing wrong with you being a feminine male if that's how you identify. Transitioning to be more accepted by society doesn't actually make sense to me. You probably won't be treated any better. probably worse, since there are people who will fight you and argue with you because they won't think you are a women. Dating is hard for us girls, employment is hard for us girls, and the world isn't exactly safe for us. The decision to transition is urs to make, but I just want to inform you that trans women are often treated the same way and bunched into the same group as feminine gay men with a few more difficulties added in. many people believe that gender is a binary and you can't cross over that binary. Even people who are accepting will go silent mid conversation when you use the restroom the same time they do.

A HUGE PART OF MY TRANSITION WAS GETTING OVER THE FACT THAT MANY PEOPLE HATE ME FOR EXISTING. This includes but isn't limited to: friends, family, strangers, and acquaintances. I had to learn how to be happy despite this.

Do what ever feels the most genuine to u. Follow your heart! if you really want to be a women feel like it is right for you, do it. I can't tell you not to. You should talk to a therapist either way and be completely honest with them. They will help you sort through your feelings.

I'm really sorry if I paint this in a negative light, but I just want to be real with you. Trans acceptance is far behind gay acceptance. Sometimes being supportive is giving the hard truth.

So, please, if you transition, do it for yourself. Not other people if they aren't accepting you now they won't because you transition. You will be accepted by us though regardless of ur choice....

So please make sure u have sorted through your thoughts and your feelings, and asked for help from a therapist.

[Kellam]

Hi EF, the other ladies have given you some great advice. The thought experiments especially could be useful. Rnaway's is a good one. Here is one that helped me.

Get calm. Then say out loud, "I am a boy", and consider how that feels. Try it again but say "girl". You can use different words or use a mirror as well but your emotional intuition will tell you how you feel about those statements.

I hope you find your peace, whatever that may be. Man or woman I am glad to have come across your story. There is a siblinghood that all feminine people share and I worry every time I hear that one of my siblings is suffering.

[ana1111]

you describe me completely between age 14 to 16....now at 19 soon to be twenty im happily living as the girl I always felt I was and everything just goes so much smoother when it comes to gender or sexuality related things...ask yourself... if I was born a woman would there have been any conflict with my gender or sexuality at all? For me the answer was no there would've been zero conflict...my social and love life is ten times better now and I can act and look how I truly feel and have people appreciate it instead of ridiculing me...I tried labeling myself s a feminine gay boy for awhile but it was miserable and never felt nearly as right as being my full self as a girl has been...you really should prioritize exploring transition no matter the cost cause it sounds like your at rock bottom

[ana1111]

Hun there is nothing wrong with you being a feminine male if that's how you identify. Transitioning to be more accepted by society doesn't actually make sense to me. You probably won't be treated any better. probably worse, since there are people who will fight you and argue with you because they won't think you are a women. Dating is hard for us girls, employment is hard for us girls, and the world isn't exactly safe for us. The decision to transition is urs to make, but I just want to inform you that trans women are often treated the same way and bunched into the same group as feminine gay men with a few more difficulties added in. many people believe that gender is a binary and you can't cross over that binary. Even people who are accepting will go silent mid conversation when you use the restroom the same time they do.

A HUGE PART OF MY TRANSITION WAS GETTING OVER THE FACT THAT MANY PEOPLE HATE ME FOR EXISTING. This includes but isn't limited to: friends, family, strangers, and acquaintances. I had to learn how to be happy despite this.

Do what ever feels the most genuine to u. Follow your heart! if you really want to be a women feel like it is right for you, do it. I can't tell you not to. You should talk to a therapist either way and be completely honest with them. They will help you sort through your feelings.

I'm really sorry if I paint this in a negative light, but I just want to be real with you. Trans acceptance is far behind gay acceptance. Sometimes being supportive is giving the hard truth.

So, please, if you transition, do it for yourself. Not other people if they aren't accepting you now they won't because you transition. You will be accepted by us though regardless of ur choice....

So please make sure u have sorted through your thoughts and your feelings, and asked for help from a therapist.

although this opinion does have some real truth to it, it really does depend unfortunately on how much you blend in as a woman in looks, voice, attitude, dress, behavior, etc...its sad that society judges so much on these things but its true...my life is far from perfect but mostly do to my own fears and insecurities...im WAY less judged and discriminated against now it seems and I can get boyfriends a lot easier than when I was in a similar place as the op...

[amber roskamp]

although this opinion does have some real truth to it, it really does depend unfortunately on how much you blend in as a woman in looks, voice, attitude, dress, behavior, etc...its sad that society judges so much on these things but its true...my life is far from perfect but mostly do to my own fears and insecurities...im WAY less judged and discriminated against now it seems and I can get boyfriends a lot easier than when I was in a similar place as the op...

You are unfortunately correct.... The passing privilege is huge when it comes to how you get treated by others. hate it but it is true.

[sparrow]

I'm writing this under the assumption that you aren't trans, since it sounds like you identify as male and would rather keep it that way.  I'd like to challenge the notion that women can wear whatever they want... they get judged pretty damned hard, no matter what they wear.  My wife doesn't want me to dress more femme than she does.  Women in my field of work dress very plain, and fashionable clothes and makeup are disparaged.

You can find love, I'm sure of it.  It took me years to find my wife!  Have you tried looking for bi guys?  I used to identify as male and bisexual.  I liked fruity femme boys, and women of all stripes.  Manly men?  Yuck, if I wanted one of those, I'd look in the mirror.  (oops... now I hate seeing that guy in the mirror... but that's me)

[ana1111]

I find some of these replies quite misguided... OP never said they were happy being a guy or strongly identified as one... quite the opposite.. What male who was happy being a male would strongly consider getting a "sex change"... they said they have always been very feminine and comfortable in a female role which to me is the most telling symptom for most male to female transsexuals...if your told your a gay man all your life by society you may start to try to accept that but that doesn't mean that's what you really are...

[sparrow]

I find some of these replies quite misguided... OP never said they were happy being a guy or strongly identified as one... quite the opposite.. What male who was happy being a male would strongly consider getting a "sex change"...

There's a broad spectrum out there, and "transition to female" is only one option.  When I discovered my trans-ness, my mind immediately went "ohgod, sex change!"  I was almost entirely unaware of the nonbinary world.  While I feel feminine, I don't feel "woman" describes me any better than "man" does right now.  The notion that "depressed man" and "possibly regretful woman after billions of dollars of painful, irreversible surgery" (exaggeration, but irrelevantly so for my budget) were my only two options cost me at least a year of depression and self-loathing.

I'm a troubleshooter.  I tweak one thing, observe the system, and repeat until the problem is solved.  Maybe I'm a woman.  Maybe not.  I'd rather take it one step at a time and see where life takes me.

We haven't heard back from Elysian yet.  If they're anything like me, they won't even have a good answer for you two years from now.  We can only see through our own eyes, and offer our own perspectives.  Please consider that your take on their post may be just as "misguided" as the rest of ours.