Simply less masculine?

[Andro123]

Hello, I am a young man who simply feels extremely out of place in the features I was given.

From a young age, I knew I identified with a much less masculine man. Despite the typical stereotype that men are supposed to look like a Pro Wrestler, many men, especially until their mid-20's, tend to look boyish and babyfaced. At least in my town, it was uncanny just how many teens and young men looked like Justin Bieber, especially if they didn't mess up their hormonal system with drugs and smoking and underground steroids!

I always identified as that. I'm a writer, photographer, and aspiring filmmaker, I have a confident, sexual personality, and I'm very trendy. Not in a girly way, but more like how Justin Bieber is fashionable. I'm a man, and I like being a man, but the problem is that my facial features have always been very extreme (Neanderthal brow bone, huge nose, and extremely thick facial and body hair.) I'm actually just a year older than the Biebs and I look like I'm 50 in comparison!

It just does not work with my personality and expression, and never has. We've all seen fashionable men who are overweight and too-manly, and you always think "Gee, he doesn't look good in that!" The point of fashion and physicality, to me, is to indeed be sexually attractive, and to the young men I try to attract, I'm by far not attractive whatsoever. At least, hyper-masculinity is unattractive to me and everyone I'm attracted to. Masculinity reminds me too much of father figures.

So I ask: is there any hormonal treatments that reduce masculine features such as body hair, balding, oil production, sweating, acne, continued facial bone growth, ect ect? I'm fine with being a man, just not a Neanderthal (they're extinct and I'm not trying to bring them back!), and for what it is, I also want to be pretty enough where I could pull off girl's clothes in my own way. After all, studies have shown that without masculine hair growth (brows, beard, ect), that every single feature on a good number of men under 20-25 is identical to a females! (Especially Biebs!)

Problem is with that, if it exists, I do not want it to effect my size "down there". :/

[Ms Grace]

Hey Andro

Welcome to Susan's    Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.

There are hormones that will reduce body hair over time (about two years), can generally prevent baldness, will usually reduce oily skin and BO (but not necessarily sweating). They will also prevent further facial bone growth but will not undo anything you already have. That's the good news. The bad news (potentially for you if you still want an otherwise manly physique) is that at the dosages you would be taking those hormones to achieved those results you very likely grow breasts (size unknown) and there is the possibility of losing sex drive (or some thereof), many transwomen report shrinkage of genitals, testes, loss in sperm production, etc. The other bad news is that these are not medications you should randomly take in the hope of achieving a particular look - hormones can be potentially very dangerous (some of the main effects include changes to blood pressure and blood clotting, damage to the liver) and should only be taken with proper medical supervision.

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Cheers

Grace

[Andro123]

So there's nothing that could simply reduce testosterone or other masculine hormones? My body is like a walking steroid and I really hate it. You'd think medicine in 2015 could do something!

And don't worry - I'm no self-medicator! I simply wish a specialist somewhere had some sort of solution. The balding, skin thickness, odor, acne, oil, facial growth, and body hair I have is more extreme than most any human being I've seen, especially for my age.

The strangest thing is though that I'm very short and skinny. Doctors have already said its possible that extreme levels of male androgens have stunted my body growth but accelorated physical features. I've actually been to a few top hospitals about it but no luck in answers...

[Mariah]

Hi Andro, welcome to Susan's. HRT can help with that, but it takes time for what it can do. It will reduce testosterone, but it doesn't happen over night. I know it's frustrating and I have been there where each and every moment testosterone was doing more harm. A therapist and your doctor could be a big help in regards helping you get the care you need to deal with this issue that I and many others have faced. I look forward to seeing you around the forums. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

[takotsubo]

Hi Andro!
Did I understand correctly that you have already seen an endocrinologist? While normal variation can be vast, if your physician has suspected an endocrine dysfunction, that probably warrants further investigation. Pathologically elevated levels of androgens ought to be relatively easy to diagnose via a simple blood test, but there are obviously other conditions that are more difficult to diagnose. Also, like I said before, you might just have had a bit of bad luck, ending up with high, yet normal levels of androgens.

Would you mind telling me a little more about your symptoms and when they started? I am an MD, though not a specialist in endocrinology, and your story awoke some professional curiosity. :-)

[sparrow]

Would you be happy with facial feminization surgery and electrolysis?

[Andro123]

Hi Andro!
Did I understand correctly that you have already seen an endocrinologist? While normal variation can be vast, if your physician has suspected an endocrine dysfunction, that probably warrants further investigation. Pathologically elevated levels of androgens ought to be relatively easy to diagnose via a simple blood test, but there are obviously other conditions that are more difficult to diagnose. Also, like I said before, you might just have had a bit of bad luck, ending up with high, yet normal levels of androgens.

Would you mind telling me a little more about your symptoms and when they started? I am an MD, though not a specialist in endocrinology, and your story awoke some professional curiosity. :-)

Well, when I just turned 12, I was the very first boy in my entire school to develope hair on my legs and thighs. It was not an exaggeration, as even teachers commented on it, and everyone called me "gorilla legs". Not just hair, but hirsutism. You could not see my skin through the body hair at 12 years old, and most men do not develope this amount of hair until their 40's, especially today when studies prove many boys are more feminized than in earlier decades. I still have hirsutism level hair if I let it grow out.

I also had extreme acne and oil production on my face, still do have extreme rosacea and oil, and I started going bald in a masculine pattern at age 15. Most men do not experience this until age 25 or so. At around age 18, I started developing an extreme brow bone ridge, it is one of the world's most extreme cases of it and doctors have done blood tests because its the most extreme symptom. I also had a mustache and beard by age 16.

But I'm also only 5'3-5'4 and despite wanting more of a classically cool, boyish appearance, I do wish I was much taller like a normal young man. That's about it, but blood tests and androgen levels are normal, though my doctor admitted that the range tested for could include the levels that only a 40 year old man would have. Essentially, if the hormones do as much damage on my organs as they've aged my appearance, I theoretically could die by age 40, being essentially 80 years old!

Not sure if it works that way but cells don't age for no reason...

Oh, and another trait is that I'm extremely well endowed in comparison to my racial heritage, height, and weight. Most guys in my body size range are about 4 or 5 inches. I'm about 6 and a half 😄. I do enjoy that. But nothing else.

[takotsubo]

especially today when studies prove many boys are more feminized than in earlier decades.

That sounds really interesting, and it's news to me, do you happen to have a link to any of those studies?

I started going bald in a masculine pattern at age 15. /.../ At around age 18, I started developing an extreme brow bone ridge

These are symptoms that sound to me like they are beyond what is expected from normal variation. Again - I am not an expert, but this makes me suspect endocrine (androgen) dysfunction.

But I'm also only 5'3-5'4

My initial thought when I heard you speak of your situation was that you might suffer from acromegaly, but with a debut as early as 12 yrs, that would have rendered you extremely tall.

blood tests and androgen levels are normal, though my doctor admitted that the range tested for could include the levels that only a 40 year old man would have.

And these tests, were they taken by a specialist or a general practitioner? Endocrinology is a complicated field, and test results could be difficult to interpret. For instance you might have normal or low levels of testosteron, but high levels of dihydrotestosteron.

I theoretically could die by age 40, being essentially 80 years old! Not sure if it works that way but cells don't age for no reason...

Did your doctor say this? It sounds unlikely to me. Your symptoms as far as I can see do not indicate accelerated ageing, but rather a heavy influence of androgens. The fact that e.g. your pattern of hair loss is premature does not mean every cell in your body has aged to the point where most people experience hair loss. This is not to say that other organs can not be damaged by abnormal hormone levels.

Does anyone else in your family have similar symptoms?

It sounds very likely to me that you have a endocrinological disturbance that causes your symptoms. They do not, however, fit very well into any common endocrinological diseases. I've done a fair bit of research without really finding anything. There are indeed pharmacological treatments that lower androgen levels or inhibit their effect, but it would be impossible (and also against both local laws and forum regulations) for me to recommend a treatment to you. That issue needs to be adressed via a real-life consultation with a skilled physician.

So I would recommend you to turn to the health care system again, and look for a highly specialised physician.
I hope you find a way to resolve your situation and feel better about yourself! Best of luck!

[Allison Wunderland]

Complicated issues, particularly w/ your age and that you're having issues with HOW YOU LOOK, rather than gender orientation.

Hirsutism is a real thing, and can be medically treated. A lot of the treatments reduce androgens (male hormones).

Let's be clear here, because I think perhaps you have some crossed objectives:

You're seemingly fine w/ your gender. Your "issue" is appearance, not gender orientation. In essence, you're not looking to be "less masculine." You're looking to address body hair, and bone structure. Those are not gender issues.

Personally, I want to reduce body hair, reduce "masculine" features. I'm not concerned about presenting "female." I very much wish I were female, but it's not about "looks/presentation" --

The anti-androgens I'm taking (Finasteride / Spiro) are intended to lower testosterone levels, reduce male libido, reduce hair, maybe grow some breasts. I'm fine with all that.

That's not what you're looking for.

HUGE distinction between control of body hair, and control of male sex drive. You're looking at the first, not the second. People in here are looking at both for the most part.

[rachel89]

Start with removing facial body and hair. you need laser (you can do it with dark hair to relatively light skin) or electrolysis to make it permanent, but you can do shaving and waxing on the body and shaving extemely close on the face and applying foundation for now. Also because, doctors have said you have had hormonal issues before, see the doctor again, and see a an LGBT friendly therapist in case its something a little more than you hormones being out of whack from a cis-male perspective. Also, try cross dressing several times and see how you feel, it might clarify some things for you. the first time I fully cross dressed it was almost like electricity shot through my body and I felt like I was human. Think the scene from OINTB Season 1. Episode 3. where Sophia Burset was trying on a dress. there was a time a few years ago where i didn't think I could be a woman and therefore tried to present myself as a more feminine man. But this is definitely not true for all feminine men. BTW, I consider skinny feminine bi/pan/trans friendly-het men to be really cute  Sorry, this is actually kind of serious and I got carried away.

[rachel89]

also, I like to lighten things up a bit now and then, I'm often scared and anxious, and some people like that often use tons of humor.