I am really stuck on figuring out: femme ftm or agender/androgyne?

[Janus]

i have identified as an androgyne for awhile (a few years,) and agender appealed to me in recent times as more fitting, when i felt strong feelings of 'gender does not matter to me.' now, in all sorts of little ways, i am feeling much more male. not masculine; my preferred presentation has oddly (to me; odd because i did not see it coming) is rather femme. it seems like, now that i know that female and femme are different terms, i can approach wearing makeup and skirts as acts that i want to do sometimes, rather than just feeling like they were alien, cis things that felt wrong or kicked off dysphoria. that was a big step for me.

it sort of begs the question: if i was feeling so confidently-self-identified as agender for so long... why is there this undertone that i am really ftm? not sure. i do not want any sort of surgery to physically change anything, though wider shoulders and some more height would feel more fitting for me, though they're things that can be helped with clothing choices. but it persists... the feeling that i am in some sort of transitioning-within-a-transition state. i am not sure where it'll all end up, but every day is discovery anyway, so maybe there is no definite train-stop for me after all as far as a definition is concerned. i did not know that the concept of femme ftms existed until very recently; seeing pics of people who identify as it was an a-ha moment of sorts. felt really relateable and cool. discovering that also set-off a shaking of my several-years-old ability to define myself as non-cis (since i really did not know that i was trans for most of my life; i thought that 'transgender' only existed in a binary sense, and never id'ed as very masculine; just male-ish and even 'tomboy' before i knew the right terms.) but something was always lacking; it felt like picking the closest-sized shirt at a store when that shirt does not really fit right. now, i had also had ideas of gender being a totally person-made concept, and i rejected that concept for myself... but femme ftms have me sort of reconsidering myself. if I sit here and say 'I am a femme ftm,' it does not feel wrong in the way that 'I am a cis female" feels; that feels wronger than wrong. Any ideas or shared thoughts on this?

[Mariah]

It doesn't exist just in a binary sense. It's a broad spectrum. Some people in the middle of that spectrum identify the way you are and have that undertone of being FtM or MtF for some. It's something to certainly work through as you transition to whatever point you decide is your ending point. Therapy will also help with sorting that out. Hugs
Mariah

[suzifrommd]

Any ideas or shared thoughts on this?

I think trans folks, especially NB folks, can literally wear ourselves out trying to label ourselves.

My gender therapist discourages me from asking those sort of questions. It's a good thing too. I am MAAB and feel male "inside" but I'm most comfortable living as a fairly feminine female for the past few years. I could spend years puzzling that out.

But she encourages me to decide instead how I want to live, which is a much easier question to answer. I tried presenting non-binary, but it just didn't work - I would have had to spend my life explaining who I was or having people see me as a guy with long hair and long fingernails. I tried presenting as a woman, and it felt far more natural, so that proved the way to go. I've been happily full time as a woman despite feeling like a man a lot of the time.

Does this help?

[Gothic Dandy]

I think trans folks, especially NB folks, can literally wear ourselves out trying to label ourselves.

So true, and the rest of suzi's post speaks to a deep part of me too.

Janus, you and I are kind of in the same boat. I've literally had that same thought: "If I'm an androgyne, why does it feel so good when I think 'I'm FTM'?"

I still haven't figured it out, but then again, I'm only in my first year. Exactly a year as of next month (August).

Thinking that I'm FTM gives me such a sense of inner peace. Adopting a masculine presentation feels so natural to me. But then, I don't have bottom dysphoria; in fact, I have a weird sense of pride in my female reproductive anatomy. I don't know, it's weird. The phrase "female man" describes me so perfectly and fills me with such joy.

I've heard about females who identify as women or as feminine, but who look like men, with beards and flat chests and the whole 9 yards. I get so happy when I think about being like one of them. Maybe that will be in my future? It's something I have to ponder more, but like suzi said, we nonbinary types have to be careful not to overthink our genders.

I'm sure you already knew you didn't have to fit into "this or that," but look around more and you'll find you don't have to fit into "both or neither" either. I've always been fascinated with gender, but the amount of different ways I've learned gender can be expressed in just the past year blows my mind.

[Allison Wunderland]

"Mahu" -- Hawaiian native term for "middle people." Mahu embrace aspects of BOTH genders/sexes.

Cross culturally, "mahu" in various forms are viewed as shaman, healers, mystics, etc. -- because they are able to access both gender realms.

I'm cis-male, wardrobe full of dresses, skirts, laces, frills . . . absurdly silly stuff that I can't wear "out." Living as I do in a rural, coastal area where everyone dresses for recreation on the beach, I wear the same recreational stuff as cis-women . . . which just happens to be pretty much the same sorts of clothing items worn by cis-men:

Jeans
T-Shirts
Tank tops
Beach sandles/athletic shoes
Back pack / laptop bag (It's a PURSE, w/ a .357 mag. Smith & Wesson)

FINALLY -- we figured out that the long-term childhood sexual abuse (male on me) really freaks me out about male sexuality, male genitals. I hate both!

I'm not "female" . . . don't want to be "male" . . . Let's be clear! I wish I were born looking like Nicole Kidman, but I'd settle for Janet Reno.

We're starting a regimen of anti-androgens, Finasteride, Spiro . . . Objective being to take the edge off the feeling like a stallion in rut all the time. Possible to reduce androgen to "post-castration levels" -- Spiro may have some "flu like" side effects, dizzy, nausea, diarrhea, etc.

We're not looking at estrogen . . . Not looking to be "female" -- I just want to drop off the "macho" and get it out of my life.

Cis-women, which is what I'm assuming here, have an easier time "crossing" . . . No social obstacles, ridicule about wearing men's clothing.

No resolution needed. You are who you feel you are, who you always have been. Wear what you wish, ID as "authentic" and let others fret about if that seems somehow "problematic" for them. It's not problematic for you!

[Janus]

Many thanks for your replies; they help a lot. i like the idea of taking the edge-off of a birth gender if it feels like it's interfering with a comfortable place of being. it's something that i do not really have to do, since my chest is naturally pretty flat and the rest of what i have does not bother me in any significant way most of the time, but i'd do that if these things were not so. it might be funny (in an interesting sense; not like a laughing-at-myself sense) but i almost wonder if my life is divided into thirds. the first third having been me living as my birth gender (for lack of the knowledge that i even could live otherwise, being young and without the benefit of the internet or enlightening people...) then this third, which is a relatively comfortable nonbinary life wherein i focus more on art/creative endeavors.. then maybe a later section of life where i will naturally become more male, less concerned with outside factors. i say this because i do have dreams of me in the future, living as male, but it's more of a feeling than a prediction, and i do not generally see my own appearance in such dreams; it's more like a feeling, and they're dreams that occur as me, rather than me being an outside person and seeing my appearance. but who knows; your replies have reminded me to focus on the Now, and do what's comfortable and correct for me as i am living now, not to be too wrapped up in the future. being an in-the-moment type who also likes to plan ahead, this works, because i hold by the notion that i will still love others no matter what their gender journies bring them, and also apply that notion to myself. : )

[sparrow]

I've been calling myself a "tomboy" for a while because it seems the most accurate descriptor: I'm a fairly masculine MtF, and apparently happy with that.  I expect some friction as people expect transwomen to present all of the 1950s stereotypes of women... but I've always been outspoken on women's rights, so that's an argument that I'm fully prepared to handle.