FTM Identified but can I also be non-binary? possible trigger warning

[phoenix633]

Hi, My name is Nick. I am AFAB and have wanted to be a boy since I was in elementary school. I had all the typical "indications" like deeply wishing I had the other genitalia and praying almost every night that I'd wake up a boy, saying I was never going to grow breasts and would cut them off if I did, wearing boys clothes and feeling very uncomfortable in girls clothes and always choosing to play with boys. I still feel like I really want to have a totally male body and want to transition but sometimes I get this fear like I don't want to become too masculine. I see some men and I think I don't know if I want that and I feel like I'm not a man or a woman. It makes me feel like I don't fit in anywhere. I know I definitely don't want to be a woman. I'm starting to wonder if my identity is really more non binary and for some reason I'd just rather express myself as a male. Or maybe I just have always wanted to be male because I never knew there was anything else. But I don't think this is true because thinking about getting chest surgery, having my face become more masculine and my voice become deeper and everything makes me so joyful to think about. I don't know if the fear is just because I feel like I will never totally fit in with men because I wasn't raised a boy and still will have a lot of feminine mannerisms and ways that I've picked up.  Like I have always been viewed as masculine when I was read as female and now as male I may be viewed as feminine. I just don't necessarily feel like I am a man but I do feel like a boy. And I feel like I don't want to be a very masculine man. I don't care if I grow body hair but I'd like to keep my face clean shaven and stay thin and not be too masculine. Then sometimes I think that it'd actually be cool to bulk up and look more masculine. Maybe I'm just afraid to become too masculine because it would be a big change from what I am now and it feels like something I may grow into. I am read as a 15 year old boy most of the time and I still feel like a boy. I've just always wanted to be a boy and never got as far as thinking of myself as a man because I didn't know it was an option until very recently. So maybe it is just something I need to grow into. I just sometimes feel like I have no gender but really want to be viewed as male by society and have a male body. But with people I know well, I'd like them to understand I don't feel like any gender. I'm just trying to understand myself and the more I search the more questions I have. I have my prescription for T and am saving for chest surgery and should be able to get it within a year. This all makes me very happy but then I fear that I will lose myself or look like a totally different person and it will scare me. But my heart really is telling me that this is the right path. I've been in gender therapy for about 4 months and will continue and I've been thinking/ researching this for a couple years. I have heard of non-binary people taking lower doses of t to reach a neutral place but then I think no, I just wanna get the changes happening as fast as possible. I know this is all over the place but I'm trying to figure this all out.

[Peter Pan]

Hey, Nick. I'm AFAB, too. I'm in a similar place identity-wise, only coming at it from the other side. I came to see myself as nonbinary before I considered my male-ness. I didn't question my gender 'til I was in high school, though. But, yeah, I see where you're coming from, in some ways.

To answer the question in the title: Yes. There are no rules for gender. You can be a nonbinary FTM. I'm currently calling myself a nonbinary agender demi-male, because that's what makes sense to me right now. Different gender terms are just words to explain how we feel about ourselves. If you feel like nonbinary fits you, then you're nonbinary. If you feel like FTM fits you, you're FTM. And you can totally be both! I know of other nonbinary trans men, like on Instagram and stuff. Try searching for "nonbinary male" or "nb boy" or something, and find more people to relate to, if you want that.

[Kiwa_no]

Hi Nick!

I can relate quite well to what you said, even though for me it has been the opposite way. I'm AFAB as well and I've been considering myself nonbinary for about a year now. Recently I've been thinking that I might even be FTM. I like being treated like a guy and I like to act and dress like one. I wouldn't mind having a male body. In fact I have a lot of issues with my breasts and always try to hide them. Sometimes I just want them gone completely but then I think that just having a smaller size would also be OK. I have no big problem with my female parts down there but I've been thinking a few times that male genitalia would probably feel more right.

Also, when I try to picture myself as a guy, I always see myself as a young boy, never as a man. That's one of the reasons why I don't think that the label "transman" fits me well. Maybe "transboy" but never "transman". I don't like body hair or beards and I don't want to have a more masculine face. But I would like to have a few more muscles (but still be thin!) and a deeper voice.

I don't want to look super masculine, but I still would like to be treated like a guy more than like a woman. Because I know that I'm not a woman. So maybe I'm just an effeminate man? I think you can look quite feminine and still consider yourself a man, right? I mean, there are so many different kinds of males out there, and you don't have to perpetuate a stereotype.

For example, one funny thing that I realised recently is that I hate it when people call me cute while treating me like a girl. But I wouldn't mind people calling me a cute boy Weird isn't?

And concerning your question: I agree with Peter Pan. If you want to consider yourself a nonbinary FTM, then just do it. These are only labels that you are free to use however you wish in order to make it easier for you and for other people to understand how you feel^^

Cheers,
Finn

[Peter Pan]

Also, when I try to picture myself as a guy, I always see myself as a young boy, never as a man. That's one of the reasons why I don't think that the label "transman" fits me well. Maybe "transboy" but never "transman". I don't like body hair or beards and I don't want to have a more masculine face. But I would like to have a few more muscles (but still be thin!) and a deeper voice.

I don't want to look super masculine, but I still would like to be treated like a guy more than like a woman. Because I know that I'm not a woman. So maybe I'm just an effeminate man? I think you can look quite feminine and still consider yourself a man, right? I mean, there are so many different kinds of males out there, and you don't have to perpetuate a stereotype.

For example, one funny thing that I realised recently is that I hate it when people call me cute while treating me like a girl. But I wouldn't mind people calling me a cute boy Weird isn't?

I feel this so much! I have a hard time referring to myself as a trans "man" or even "guy". I always wanna say that I'm more "boyish". Maybe it's part of my refusal to grow up lol I mean my username is Peter Pan.

I also hate it when people compliment me as though I'm a girl. My mom will say things like, "Oh, you're so pretty." Even when I'm presenting as more stereotypically "male"! But I wouldn't mind being a pretty boy hahah. I call myself a nonbinary prince, 'cause it's cute and pretty but it's still boyish (albeit somewhat narcissistic? lol).

And like, I can feel good wearing feminine clothing, but only if I think of myself as a boy in a dress.

[Kiwa_no]

I always wanna say that I'm more "boyish". Maybe it's part of my refusal to grow up lol I mean my username is Peter Pan.

I like your username and I can totally relate. I never wanted to grow up and I still don't want to. My identity issues started when I began to "grow up" (=puberty) and became a "woman". I was never able to deal with that. But maybe I just miss the fact that gender wasn't that much of big deal when I was still a kid?

But I wouldn't mind being a pretty boy hahah. I call myself a nonbinary prince, 'cause it's cute and pretty but it's still boyish (albeit somewhat narcissistic? lol).

And like, I can feel good wearing feminine clothing, but only if I think of myself as a boy in a dress.

"Nonbinary Prince", I like that a lot
And concerning the boy in a dress thing: I never thought about it before but yeah, I could definitely imagine being some kind of cross-dressing boy^^

[phoenix633]

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I see myself more as a boy just because I have been disconnected from myself since I was 12 or if that is just how I always see myself. I had a major personality change at 12 and become very withdrawn. I feel like I missed part of my childhood because I was never allowed to act the way that felt natural so I never was able to express myself how I wanted and barely socialized. So I sorta feel like I still see myself as a boy but I know that everyone ages. I also hate that people always think I'm 15 and I'm 25. Like I'm not respected for my age. I've always had major issues with my genitals so that is one thing that made me really want to transition and feel like I am male. I guess I'm afraid of not looking like myself and I'm hoping that I find myself and look more like myself through transition. But I just can't figure out if I'm just scared to grow up or if I just feel non binary leaning towards male or like a boy not a man. Like maybe I don't see myself as a man because I'm not one now, I look like a boy and still feel a lot like one. But through transition I would grow into it. I want to look like a young guy in his 20's like all my friends around my age because I'm sick of being treated like a teenager. It makes it hard to interact with people my own age. I'm just afraid I will age too fast or something. I really want my face to change and look more defined and masculine. I guess I just don't like being in the space where people can't tell my gender because people just don't know how to relate to me and it is weird for me to think that people can't tell my gender. I would like to look like a male because I have always felt more comfortable and drawn to that but then I feel like inside I am not a man or woman. Thanks, it is good to know other people understand. I just know I need to make physical changes to my body and it's hard to know exactly what those are and what the end goal is. I feel like I want to just totally transition to male. And that eventually I will like looking like a man, a lot of times it makes me happy to think of myself as a man in 20 years. I need to accept that I will age lol. And I just feel like it's too hard for me to be in between genders physically and socialize. But my thoughts on gender and my body do change or fluctuate. Some things never change. I just just feel like I have no gender but really want a male body and to be seen as male.

[Kiwa_no]

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I see myself more as a boy just because I have been disconnected from myself since I was 12 or if that is just how I always see myself. I had a major personality change at 12 and become very withdrawn. I feel like I missed part of my childhood because I was never allowed to act the way that felt natural so I never was able to express myself how I wanted and barely socialized.

I know that feeling pretty well...I feel like I lost myself and the ability to understand who I am at the age of 11-12, when suddenly other people expected me to act like an adult. It's also the time when everyone stopped playing outside because it was considered to be "uncool" and childish. It's also the time when the gap between boys and girls became bigger and suddenly you had to act like your respective gender. I remember that I really didn't want to adapt back then. I felt really bad, and my whole life had suddenly become much more boring and pointless. I wasn't ready for this, and sometimes I still feel like I am not ready to be an adult. Even though I realised it only much later, but at that age I started to become depressed, and like you I became very withdrawn and my personality shifted from "loud & cheeky" to "shy and seclusive". This became really severe when puberty hit me and I started developing breasts. I remember that I refused to wear a bra for many years and when I first got my period I cried.

But I just can't figure out if I'm just scared to grow up or if I just feel non binary leaning towards male or like a boy not a man.

Even now, I don't know if I simply didn't want to grow up, or if I didn't want to become a woman. If I had gone trough male puberty, would I still have felt the same? I honestly can't tell you.

I don't know whether I feel like a woman or like a man. But if I had to choose, I think I would definitely choose the male side, even though I would never consider myself as being 100 % male.

I guess I just don't like being in the space where people can't tell my gender because people just don't know how to relate to me and it is weird for me to think that people can't tell my gender.

I think that's a big problem for me as well. I would be fine with being somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, not being entirely male nor female, if people would understand and accept that. I think it would even make it easier to deal with my dysphoria. But society still demands from us to choose one side, and this is something that can create a lot of pressure.

I would like to look like a male because I have always felt more comfortable and drawn to that but then I feel like inside I am not a man or woman.

Can I ask you why you feel non-binary on the inside?
I think, in order to be physically male, you don't have to feel a 100 % male inside. There is a difference between what you want your body to look like and what other people (and maybe even you) want you to BE like. I often mix up how I feel inside with how I should be if I were male/female. That's why I feel like I don't really fit anywhere. I sometimes feel like I could never be a 100 % male because I also enjoy girlish things from time to time, or because I wouldn't want to look super masculine. But like I said, you can also be an effeminate man.

But my thoughts on gender and my body do change or fluctuate. Some things never change. I just just feel like I have no gender but really want a male body and to be seen as male.

I would say that, if you are really certain that you want a male body, then go for it. You can still consider yourself as being non-binary if you want. Your body doesn't make your gender. And even though a male body would probably not represent exactly how you feel inside, if it makes you feel better it is still something that I would consider.


PS: I'm sorry if some of the things I said didn't make much sense! English isn't my native language and I'm confused about the whole gender thing just as much as you are^^

[phoenix633]

Actually it all made sense to me and thank you, it feels good to know I'm not alone in how I feel. I guess I feel non-binary because I'm just me. I just feel like me and like male and female or what I know as male and female feel so much like societal constructs. I don't feel 100 percent like a man because I have never been viewed as one and I feel like I will always feel a little different because of my past. I kinda feel like a hybrid because I have experience what life as a female is like. I guess I just don't know what makes someone feel like a man or woman. I am just me and I really want a male body. I just still wanna look like myself and I don't feel like I do now. I have literally at times looked a pictures of me and been like who is that? That just can't be me. Now I feel more connected to myself but only when I have short hair, a binder and all male clothes on. Take off the clothes and I lose myself again. I think I am a kinda feminine man. I've always been told I am cute and pretty and I guess as vain as it sounds, I still wanna look cute and attractive. I honestly feel horrible for saying that. I just feel like if I'm not just as cute people will be like, wow he used to be so cute what did he do to himself? Like I don't want to be really bulky because my whole life I've been a thin person and it's just the body I am used to. My face has always been thin and if I got bulky and my face got wider it would be a big change. My dad was skinny as hell as a teenager and still is pretty thin. I eat very healthy (vegan plus fish and no sugar) and I'm very active and have a high metabolism so I'm hoping I don't get a major size change. But sometimes I think it'd be cool to get muscular just not right away because I need change to happen gradually. I do this weird thing where I look at other people and think, will I look like that? And then it freaks me out because I don't wanna look like that. And I'm realizing it's because they aren't me and I want to still look like me. Like of course I don't wanna look like them because I don't wanna be a whole new person, I just wanna be the male version of me. I love some things about myself. I have unique face, I just hate how feminine it looks even though I still pass often. I just want it to change with hormones. I love my eyes and hair (hopefully I won't lose it but I'm okay with it if it happens, I've accepted all the changes that could happen and thankfully balding doesn't run in either family but I'm still mentally prepared for it). I like my ears and weird as that sounds. I like that I'm thin and healthy and I like my personality. Sometimes I feel like it is also the fact that either way I will never be what society expects of a man or woman. As a woman I was very masculine and as a man I will probably be breaking gender roles again. Like I am also attracted to men so there is a chance I could be with a man. Also, emotionally I am very sensitive and like to talk about my feelings and have some feminine ways in the way I talk and interact. But who says men can't be sensitive. It's just that some things that were frowned upon as a girl like my clothes choices will be okay now, but somethings like being emotional will be seen as "not okay" but I'm used to breaking gender roles anyways. I feel like people might peg me as gay due to the inflection and hand gestures I learned being raised as a girl. But I kinda like this about myself because growing up breaking gender expectations, it just sorta became part of me so I also don't wanna lose it and just look like a straight cis gender male. Also, not identifying as a female was one of the most liberating things I ever did. All these things that I used to think about no longer applied to me. Like I'd be like, oh can I wear this it's so masculine or I haven't shaved my legs etc. but then I'd be like wait I'm not even a girl so why am I worrying about this. For me it's almost like a mental tool to avoid conditioning. Like if I think, I can't do that because men aren't supposed to I just go oh wait I'm not a man or woman so I can just do what I want. But everyone should be able to anyways.