Questions about Privilige for my Trans Brothers?

[Stella Sophia]

Hi Fellas,

I am curious to hear your replies about this; it involves gaining male privilege. What have you found in the process of gaining male privilege but losing female privilege? For me I have benefitted from male privilege until I transitioned from M2F and in the process my experience losing male privilege (MP) I gained female privilege. (FP)

Things lost in losing MP: (Mild humor involved)

When I began to lose MP I started getting looks for not wearing makeup, I was pressured to constantly be aware of how I look and to be very aware of my appearance. Granted I don't agree with the pressures that are placed on women by society, it works out well for me as I need to lose weight and I love makeup anyways.

Losing MP I found myself not being afforded the same physical space I used to have, guys are not shy to stand close to me nor are they shy about asserting their dominance over my will, by this I mean cutting in line and assuming to go first etc. I'm attracted to men so if they want to stand close to me they are more than welcomed. 

My opinion is diminished, when I speak up about something it is not taken with much regard until a man says something, I don't mind this too much because I didn't have anything intelligent to say before anyways.

I get shut up'd all the time and ignored and cut off. But that's probably for the best.

Objectification, I get checked out by guys and objectified if they don't clock me first, it is totally okay to see me as a piece of meat.

Things gained with FP:

I am more freely allowed to express my moods and emotions (good)

Guys tend to be very polite to me in a lot of different situations such as holding doors open for me or letting me go ahead in line and treating me like i'm helpless (love it)

I am more freely able to talk to people and strangers without them backing up or feeling threatened as was the case when I was in boy mode.

I don't get harassed about being too girly or deciding if I want to be tomboyish, it doesn't really matter where on the girly to tomboy meter I fall, as I am a female and its fine. Men however are not afforded this whatsoever.

I am given full power when it comes to a relationship and intimacy. When I meet guys or they introduce themselves to me, I have full control over what happens and how to handle it (most guys at least.) I am the one to decide if we proceed or not even in many situations where I was the pursuer. I am not crossing my fingers like I would if I were a man and hoping the woman likes me.

(Still learning the perks of being female, as well as the downsides)

So what about you men, lets hear it? 

[CursedFireDean]

Sounds accurate to me!

I've definitely noticed that people pay more attention to me when I speak, though still not a ton, probably because I look about 13. I'm not harassed about whether or not I'm in a relationship anymore (like guys don't hit on me creepily anymore- still get nice gay guys hitting on me which is great). People tend to avoid sitting next to me on a bus when it's full- picking women to sit next to first, which I like since I really don't like being around strangers. Men show me more respect when it comes to physical labour, I am no longer asked "do you need help with that?" When carrying somewhat heavy objects unless I'm clearly struggling.

Some people (aka my conservative family members) still hassle me about being "too girly" when before I was constantly told "that's not ladylike." I'm also more often teased about my height or even told by strangers "don't worry, you'll catch up to the rest of your friends!" (Probably in reference to that I look much younger than I am.) People expect me to be more chivalrous although in my mind things like holding a door are just polite, not some stupid mighty sign of being a chivalrous man.

[Ryan55]

hmm yeah i guess, since gaining mp, people have listened to me more, this showed a lot when I use to work at lowes and when a customer had a question and my female coworker answered and there like no and then would ask me and i would tell them the same thing and its like o yeah, thats great. I honestly never noticed it until that happened. I do notice if im walking down the street, women usually will move further away from me when they walk by (maybe i just look threatening i dont know lol), im also not asked if i need help lifting stuff anymore, unless its really big, but I'm also only 5'3, so that could be a height thing. Funnily enough, guys dont pick on my height, its actually chicks that will tease me about it. It is nerve wracking to make the first move though on chicks, thats something I'm getting use too, its probably a mixture of switching to mp and the fact i'm still gaining confidence in being a dude.

[sam1234]

Some things sound like they are individual traits, such as cutting in line. That is considered impolite regardless of who does it and is not always dependent on gender.

Our society, although it has gotten better, is still somewhat patriarchal. We also have a tendency to consider woman who are outspoken and aggressive "bitches", while that same set of traits is accepted and considered regarded as a sign of strength in men.

I honestly can't say that I miss any of the F privileges I lost when I transitioned to a male, mainly because anything female made me uncomfortable. I never wore makeup, but I do remember the nasty comments concerning my lack of use there. Because I spent so much time by myself and avoiding people in general, I'm not sure what I would have had if I had acted feminine prior to transition.
tha
On the other hand, the M privileges I gained had to be learned because I missed my entire teen and early twenties hiding. The trait of needing more personal space around guys was actually a relief. Being able to open doors for women, if you call that a privilege is something I feel is positive.

Many of the privileges seem to change with age. Perhaps i should call them behaviors instead. Following my transition, I found guys in their teens and early twenties overly obsessed with penis size and comparing inches. As a middle aged male, that has ceased to be a subject that is vocalized as it was in my twenties.

I do feel that what I say is listened to rather than passed off and this seems to be more of an issue in mixed company. I think the biggest privilege I have gained as a male is the ability to go down the street at night without having to worry about being raped. Since I've always dressed as a male and moved like one, I never had the full effect of that worry, but enough to allow me to empathize with what women must feel as they go out alone at night.

sam1234

[FTMax]

Female privilege is not real. Privilege is an advantage made to a group that isn't accessible to everyone. It's systemic, not situational or based on opinion. Trans men only gain male privilege if society says they pass.

This is a good write up on it, and I agree with him wholeheartedly:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/male-privilege-trans-men/

[Laura_7]

Female privilege is not real. Privilege is an advantage made to a group that isn't accessible to everyone. It's systemic, not situational or based on opinion. Trans men only gain male privilege if society says they pass.

This is a good write up on it, and I agree with him wholeheartedly:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/male-privilege-trans-men/

The article is good...
I'd say its especially striking if coming from another point of view, people growing up slowly into those probably don't notice as much...
and I'd say its also a bit of a generational thing, with younger generations more likely to get it or being more open if told...

well if there is male privilege there has to be female privilege imo...
I'd agree with the points she made... like people being more used to females displaying emotions...

[FTMax]

well if there is male privilege there has to be female privilege imo...
I'd agree with the points she made... like people being more used to females displaying emotions...

Except privilege has an accepted definition. What you're describing is more akin to benevolent sexism. When women have all of the social authority and power that men do and are truly on an even playing field, then we can start talking about the ways in which women are privileged. Until then, it's not a real thing.

[Brandon]

Gainning male privelage has been a good feeling at the same time it can be a scary thing for the simple fact that I am young black male, so I get stereotyped a lot, I get looked at a lot, especially when I am with friends and we can just be walking around in a store and get looked at funny just because of our color or even taking walks outside, police officers tend to stare us down, white people sometimes seem threatened by me or my other guy friends in some cases, so it can be very very difficult and I have to be much more cautious than non black people.

[Laura_7]

Except privilege has an accepted definition. What you're describing is more akin to benevolent sexism. When women have all of the social authority and power that men do and are truly on an even playing field, then we can start talking about the ways in which women are privileged. Until then, it's not a real thing.

Well I just tell my feelings... don't want to argue...
basically what you are saying is women don't have any privilege... which makes me sad... there have to be a few advantages of being female

and I'd say perceived advantages don't need a definition...

I'd agree with the even playing field... imo it has something to do with respect... there might be differences in thinking etc, but people are not the same but equal...

hugs

[Serena]

Sorry for intruding since im not ftm, but I agree with ftmax, female privilege does NOT exists, and the stuff you listed, is stuff you noticed, as a white woman, it's not always the same thing, and not all women experiences "female privilege".
Also race plays a big role in male privilege as well, like Brandon said.

[highlight]

I am the opposite way round. Male privilege is mostly a myth in my view and female privilege is ever present.

Growing up more is expected from you if you are a Guy (or seen as one) and there are more restrictions.

It is especially tough if you are and "feminine" male because you are just asking for it. It is easier for a girl to act like a guy than vis versa.

It's difficult to say though because there is "boyhood" and then there is "trans-girlhood". Perhaps I am attributing the underprivilege of the latter to the former?

But I think FP does exist and I am transitioning in part to get my hands on it.

[HeyTrace19]

  People expect me to be more chivalrous although in my mind things like holding a door are just polite, not some stupid mighty sign of being a chivalrous man.

I agree with this... People (all people) can work on being more polite or kind in day to day life, without regard to gender. I hold a door open for the person entering after me not because I am a man , but because it is a kind thing to do, not because that person is male, or female, or disabled, or elderly, or youthful, or fits into any other category. It is just an act of kindness.  And kindness usually feels good---giving and receiving.

I am not sure if my previous female life yielded more or less privilege than my life now.  I have always felt respected, usually got the jobs I wanted, and have been paid fairly and equitably for my work.  It is a sad thing in our society that the inequities do exist, but hopefully there is a shift happening so that future generations will experience less hardship.  IMHO, we can help further this change by showing each day more respect and kindness for ourselves and others, and living with fewer judgments.

[jlaframboise]

As soon as I gained male passing privilege, people stopped looking at me like trying to figure out a puzzle I guess. It was SO uncomfortable at first , being approached to help lift things into random old ladies cars while on my way out of the grocery store? Getting nods from guys and nodding back is still... weird. It's like some secret clique I finally got initiated into. Passing privilege is disappointing in the way that society sees you as NOT trans if you don't pass as what society says is male or female, but yeah things change a lot.


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[Muscle Matt]

As I've never been comfortable with female things, I have actually missed out on a LOT of female privilege that's out there (yes, it does exist).

There is ladies' night at most bars and taverns, and even on the other days of the week, men are very likely to buy drinks for women. All of my female friends get drinks bought for them all the time. Meanwhile, us guys are always stuck with the tab at the end of the night (the only time I've ever had a drink bought for me was when my friends and I went out to the strip club, and the drunk guys next to us bought shots for all of us). Women can get all kinds of free stuff just for being women. There are lots of websites out there that send out free trial items to women, and a lot of other businesses will make offers only available to women (most recently, I've seen signs for a free 30 days of kickboxing lessons). Small businesses can also usually be negotiated with, and the prettier the woman they're talking to, the higher a discount they can receive. It's always rough seeing everything women can get for free, while I'm stuck struggling to pay for things for myself. Not to mention, I'm usually the one women come to to buy them drinks and lend them money and help them out with rides. It's definitely an expensive world being a male, yet at the same time, I've had auto shops try to swindle me and lie to me thinking I'm some dumb female that knows nothing about cars, so maybe in the end it all evens out.

At my work, it's been pretty tough adjusting to privilege switches. As a "female", the male customers would always come in and rave about how pretty all us girls working there were (even though I never looked good, I looked female enough for the customers to group me in with the half-naked girls I work with). Since I've started wearing men's clothes full-time, I no longer have the creepy old men hitting on me, which has its ups and downs. On the downside, I don't get as many (or any) tips from some of the guys who come in (the one guy tips $10 every time, even if his meal only costs $7, but ONLY if the super-slutty girl is there). But on the plus side, the customers seem to have more of an interest in me as an actual person, and are more attentive to our conversations. Also on the downside, I can sometimes be in the middle of a conversation, and then the girl missing half her clothes walks up and they immediately cut off the convo and start talking to her. Also, since I've never been feminine, when the two girls are talking to each other, no matter what I have to say to either of them, they ignore me like I've never said a word.

Being in a sort of in-between state right now, it's hard to really separate the people who are giving me male privilege versus the people who just see me as a non-threatening, down-to-Earth female (it usually seems to depend on if I'm wearing my glasses and how visible my chest is in the shirt I'm wearing that day). I'm hoping once I really get further into this transition, I can notice more and more privilege changes.

As far as manners are concerned, such as holding open doors, I've always done polite things for everyone, but I do always place priority on certain people. When I'm serving people their food, I always try to serve the women first (assuming the food comes out at the same time), or I first serve the elderly or young children. People may not notice small gestures like that, but I've always strongly believed in manners. Being a gentleman always bring me a small dose of self-satisfaction anyway.