do you think the trans community needs to adopt the tactics of Gay Pride

[stephaniec]

What worked there may or may not work for trans people. Certainly it wouldn't hurt for us to have a lot more pride in being trans - unfortunately shame and self hatred still seems to be more the order of the day and that needs to change regardless. The petty politics, in fighting, pointless point scoring, bickering and bit¢#iness needs to stop too.

ditto

[stephaniec]

I guess my real concern is the people that can't make the cut.  Lets be radical in an estimate of the % of people that have no problem blending at 85% , do we just abandon the 15 % that get gendered improperly. If there is a community which seems at present to be debatable, isn't the responsibility of a community to ensure all its members can feel safe and free to express themselves or realistically there is no point to having a community. I mean what point is there to care if another trans is murdered. Why care if someone is homeless or loses their job or housing. The Gay movement changed attitudes because they did care for the whole. (disclaimer : this is only my opinion and not meant to cause harm to any other opinion , just meant to facilitate peaceful and rational debate)

[jessica32]

The point of pride movements is to make life easier for the next girls we still lose more trans to depression that cis ppl out proud strong women help change the institutions that can make all the difference to some one living in a dark little closet filled with fear and anxiety

[Zoetrope]

It's complicated isn't it.

One the one hand, T and I don't seem to sit well with L, G and B. That's because L, G and B are matters of sexuality. I and T are matters of gender.

Anybody can have a sexuality. Anybody can have a gender identity. And one can have any mix.

On the other hand, I venture that many trans people would like to smoothly assimilate or transition back into mainstream society. For myself, I liked the mainstream and didn't particularly want to leave.

Also, I don't consider myself any kind of expert on transsexual life. I get by and stuff, and have fun, keep myself happy. I feel like my life is pretty normal. And I like that.

So it never occurs to me to make a point of myself being trans, or to participate in trans activism, even if I agree with the cause.

[allisonsteph]

That is a very complicated situation. In some aspects the Gay Pride Movement and the Civil Rights Movement before it paved the way for us. The underlying objective to both movements was acceptance and equality. I think overall most people are more openminded and accepting than they were a generation or two ago.

In my own personal life I am very conflicted. On one hand all I ever wanted was to be comfortable with myself and have those around me accept as I am. For the most part I have achieved that, I am accepted at the woman that I see myself to be. On the other hand there is a burning inside of me to step up and become a leader in my community. The trans community is invisible where I live, and that is harmful to a lot of people. Working with or becoming a community leader requires being very out and proud. I really see no middle ground for me.

[HoneyStrums]

Sombody said, show you are here.

I can relate to this, because no amount of saying to my dad I feel like a girl, gave him any bearing on my exsperience, but, went it came to a small thing like, going just three doors down to a post box, and he saw I couldnt do it, but I wanted too, He realised just how bad I felt at having facial hair. He saw how baddly it was effecting me, when I looked in the mirror and all but scrached my face off.

I couldnt tell him how it felt. He had to see how it felt.

Somebody said, the further down the trans line we go, the less out we are.

I dont agree with this. I do agree this is the prospect for those fortunate to be passable and choose to live stealth. But for the who cant pass, and choose not to be stealth, this isnt the case.

In may case, the further I go down the trans line, the more out I am. I just went to answer the door to the post man, I could not do this when I first came out. Now I can, even with three day stublle, In a dress. Why could I do it? Because that person has no right to dictate who can, and who can not answer the door to them.

Point being, as I transition, I grow In terms of what right and wrong is, at first I saw my presentation possibly causing the offence as what was wrong, and somthing I shouldnt do. Since then I learned that their offence at how sombody living in their house might answer the door as what is wrong, and somthing they shouldnt do.

Sombody said, we should all stop behaving like children.

Yes and no, why? Because we dont all act like children. some of us do and I agree we they should mature a little bit. But that said the problembs most of us face, is in fact the oposit of this, it is other people acting like children and bullying us because we are different.

Do I think we could adopt the same tactics outlined in your post?

Are we not doing that allready? I thought we were.

I guess my real concern is the people that can't make the cut.  Lets be radical in an estimate of the % of people that have no problem blending at 85% , do we just abandon the 15 % that get gendered improperly. If there is a community which seems at present to be debatable, isn't the responsibility of a community to ensure all its members can feel safe and free to express themselves or realistically there is no point to having a community. I mean what point is there to care if another trans is murdered. Why care if someone is homeless or loses their job or housing. The Gay movement changed attitudes because they did care for the whole. (disclaimer : this is only my opinion and not meant to cause harm to any other opinion , just meant to facilitate peaceful and rational debate)

Your perfectly fine, pointing out that there are, less passable mebers of our society and that they too deserve respect. And to be taken into consideration.

Disclaimer, this is in no way, sugesting that other people dont feel this way. Im just outlining that their was nothing wrong with steph's post

[April Lee]

I have spent a fair amount of time in the last couple of years in the company of the various colors of the rainbow. I know I will probably come off as somewhat un PC here, as I often do, but I believe much of the progress that the gay community has made, has come from their deliberate strategy of getting out and about, and having pride in who they are. At times I have sensed almost the dead opposite of that from parts of the trans community. I believe that this whole notion of blending-in doesn't serve the cause of trans rights very well. Too many of my trans acquaintances seem almost apologetic for being themselves. Disappearing into the woodwork doesn't gain us anything.

[Lebedinaja]

I am everything else than an expert, but I think in countries like usa, canda, britain, sweden and so on, this could work quite well. People would see there are others, they see, I am not alone. But would trans people, that had "success" in their whole process still want to take part in this?

The others side is, it can make people also agressive and make the whole trans-topic look really bad if done wrong.
so what I think about, does the trans community need this "tactic"? what exactly would this be good for?

[stephaniec]

My problem for myself is that being trans intrigues me. I'm totally aware of peoples yearning just to be part of the whole. It's just a feeling of being natural. Maybe because I was part of the hippie culture being different is  a coveted goal to have. I'll always remember an incident back around 1971 , I had hair down to my waist and I got onto a bus and went to pay my fair and this guy in his 50's or 60's turned to me and said there is a barber shop a block down the street. Looking back it's pretty funny , but at the time it made me wonder that a guy I never saw in my life would just come out and be an idiot in front of people. The hippies for the most part have gone underground , but there tactics strengthened our democracy.

[Delaney]

Personally I think that some level of Pride movement within the community would be good, although I can absolutely understand not wanting to out yourself when you succeed at passing.

Before Pride, gays and lesbians were faced with a world that was much less forgiving and left them with the same sort of shame and isolation that so many in the trans community still face today.  Accepting and loving yourself for who you are and showing the world what you can accomplish, despite what many think about you, is paramount.  We're not freaks or crazies or deviants, we're just people.  Being trans takes a strength of character that the rest of the population should admire,  and every one of us should be able to look at ourselves and say, "Yeah, I'm proud of that."

[HoneyStrums]

Personally I think that some level of Pride movement within the community would be good, although I can absolutely understand not wanting to out yourself when you succeed at passing.

Before Pride, gays and lesbians were faced with a world that was much less forgiving and left them with the same sort of shame and isolation that so many in the trans community still face today.  Accepting and loving yourself for who you are and showing the world what you can accomplish, despite what many think about you, is paramount.  We're not freaks or crazies or deviants, we're just people.  Being trans takes a strength of character that the rest of the population should admire,  and every one of us should be able to look at ourselves and say, "Yeah, I'm proud of that."

You know what? I think I DO.

I think My mood reflects that, before I used to look in the mirror and just put my hair streight. Now when I "USE" a mirror its to do the same thing, but I admire myself. I smile and I think thats a reflection of how much pride I have In my appearence.

When I see, people treating children harshly for what people consider gender none conforming behavioure Im proud I look at it with the perspective I do.

One mother bought her child a tea set for a birthday party, and another mother asked how old she was, the first mother said it a boy actually. So the second said "isnt that a girls toy?"

I said not realy. They both looked at me, and Im pretty certian some "things clicked" So I went on describing how children tend to know what kind of people they are, but adults try and mold them into a certian type of adult. I asked why do you think that we dont exspect men to be as good of cooks as we do woman? Do you think it might be in part due to the types of toy we get them automaticaly? I mean is dolls, and prams and tea sets not society way of teaching girls how to be the women we exspect thm to be? Do you not think buying a boy a tea set might in some way influence them to pay more attention to cooking? I said I dont know.

I realy just asked these questions to broaden horizons and add food for thought. But I asked the lady why she was buying it, and she said well her son likes to help her when she cooking but hes too young at the moment and hes more destracting for her, so she though if she got him his own plates and cups and things, he might not disrupt her so much.

I smiled, and then looked at the other woman, she was also smileing. And I left it with, If that boy of yours realy does love cooking, how do you think they might feel if, society somehow teaches him that apart from being a master chief the kitchen is a womans place?

I find from my exsperience that, although what gender I am might be debated over for years to come, My opinions of gender aside of myself Is usually seen as the voice to be listened too.

And for that Too I have Pride.

[Delaney]

You know what? I think I DO.

I think My mood reflects that, before I used to look in the mirror and just put my hair streight. Now when I "USE" a mirror its to do the same thing, but I admire myself. I smile and I think thats a reflection of how much pride I have In my appearence.

When I see, people treating children harshly for what people consider gender none conforming behavioure Im proud I look at it with the perspective I do.

One mother bought her child a tea set for a birthday party, and another mother asked how old she was, the first mother said it a boy actually. So the second said "isnt that a girls toy?"

I said not realy. They both looked at me, and Im pretty certian some "things clicked" So I went on describing how children tend to know what kind of people they are, but adults try and mold them into a certian type of adult. I asked why do you think that we dont exspect men to be as good of cooks as we do woman? Do you think it might be in part due to the types of toy we get them automaticaly? I mean is dolls, and prams and tea sets not society way of teaching girls how to be the women we exspect thm to be? Do you not think buying a boy a tea set might in some way influence them to pay more attention to cooking? I said I dont know.

I realy just asked these questions to broaden horizons and add food for thought. But I asked the lady why she was buying it, and she said well her son likes to help her when she cooking but hes too young at the moment and hes more destracting for her, so she though if she got him his own plates and cups and things, he might not disrupt her so much.

I smiled, and then looked at the other woman, she was also smileing. And I left it with, If that boy of yours realy does love cooking, how do you think they might feel if, society somehow teaches him that apart from being a  master chief  the kitchen is a womans place?

I find from my exsperience that, although what gender I am might be debated over for years to come, My opinions of gender aside of myself Is usually seen as the voice to be listened too.

And for that Too I have Pride.

I agree 100%, but your typo made my day, haha...

Any kid can grow up to be the Master Chief!  With the right military training, genetic alterations, physical enhancements, and cybernetic armor, that is...

[rachel89]

Maybe transphobes can get unicorn gorings like homophobes get glitter bombings

I think we really need a trans pride movement because there are too many trans* people who are ashamed or who are afraid to be themselves, there are too many families that heap abuse on their transgender children, there is still discrimination in healthcare,employment, housing, and even public accommodations from time to time, and most of it is still legal in most places. People act like its not a big deal or a joke when trans women of color are killed in an exceptionally gruesome manner, yet would want the perpetrator hung from highest tree if the victim was cis-gender, straight, and white. We need pride because people feel they need to hide trans* status for their careers, relationships, or even their lives. We need pride because yesterday, almost 200 students and angry adults stood in front of a high school in Hillsboro, MO to protest that Lila Perry, a young transgender woman will now be able to use the restrooms and locker rooms that match her gender. She was forced to drop gym class and spend the day i the principal's office for her own safety. This is unacceptable and lawyers are not going to fix everything.

[amber roskamp]

I am very proud of being trans! I think trans representation is important in pride especially now that heterosexual cis people are starting to pay more and more attention to prides. We need to let them know that we exist not only on television but in the same city that you live in.

I think the main reason trans people don't partake in prides is because we are taught to be ashamed of our bodies, the transition, and our past. There has also been a history of transphobia at gay events so we don't necessarily even feel safe at these events.

I definitely think the unapologetic approach is the best. In our society I believe it's a revolutionary actually to say "I am trans and I am not ashamed." Or "I am trans and I am proud"

Not only is it revolutionary but it is also powerful. We live in a culture that pushes us to the point where 41% of us attempt suicide. To say "hey I love this about myself" when so many people are pushing us to suicide says a lot about our resilience and may inspire people to be better allies.

[April Lee]

A lot of trans I know seem to be almost apologetic that they don't fit perfectly into somebody else's vision of what they should be. I know a post-op who has had some incredible facial surgery. Many cis women would kill to look like her, yet she is constantly worried that something in her demeanor comes across as way too masculine. I suspect that has something to do with her having some vision of womanhood that even a lot of cis women would find themselves wanting.

As I see it, once somebody surrenders their self esteem to some cookie cutter vision of how they should be, they have also surrendered to their enemies. Transphobes will always be around to point out our shortcomings, whether they are real or made up.

The only way out of that box is to take pride in the trans identity. Yes, I am a woman, but I am trans woman, and there is nothing wrong with that. My focus is on reshaping my outside to be an authentic reflection of my inside.  The criteria for my success is completely under my control. The pride comes from what I  have accomplished in that regard.

[boheme]

Being early in transition and only out to a few people, this a hard one for me. Having being blessed with a feminist mother who has never let anyone tell her she couldn't do things because she is a woman, I've never been very big on the gender binary, but given that most people do see 'man' or 'woman', I want people to see 'woman', not treat me as sub-human because I don't fit in. In this respect, I certainly want to fly under the radar as not be 'different'.

The thing is though, why should being trans be shameful? Why should I feel bad about coming out? Why can't I tell my friends that I am transitioning and change slowly, instead of having to 'flick a switch'? What is wrong with wearing 'women's' clothing when I don't pass? Why do I have to give up my masculinity? Why can't I just wear unisex clothes and still be a woman, instead of having to act femme to be taken more seriously?

I guess these kind of questions are why those of us who safely can need to stand up and be counted -- not because we feel blessed to be trans (I wouldn't wish dysphoria on anyone) but because we deserve better, and we're never going to get it unless we fight for it.

[amber roskamp]

Being early in transition and only out to a few people, this a hard one for me. Having being blessed with a feminist mother who has never let anyone tell her she couldn't do things because she is a woman, I've never been very big on the gender binary, but given that most people do see 'man' or 'woman', I want people to see 'woman', not treat me as sub-human because I don't fit in. In this respect, I certainly want to fly under the radar as not be 'different'.

The thing is though, why should being trans be shameful? Why should I feel bad about coming out? Why can't I tell my friends that I am transitioning and change slowly, instead of having to 'flick a switch'? What is wrong with wearing 'women's' clothing when I don't pass? Why do I have to give up my masculinity? Why can't I just wear unisex clothes and still be a woman, instead of having to act femme to be taken more seriously?

I guess these kind of questions are why those of us who safely can need to stand up and be counted -- not because we feel blessed to be trans (I wouldn't wish dysphoria on anyone) but because we deserve better, and we're never going to get it unless we fight for it.

Perfect! So true!

But to answer your questions... it shouldn't. You shouldn't... That's actually what's gonna happen because transitioning is a really slow process... There is nothing.. you don't some trans women are butch. Don't act more femme then you want to the you are transitioning for one point of dysphoria to another. Be you wear unisex cloths if you like them. I don't even own a dress. So do u your thing.

These are just bad cultural norms enforced by a transphobic, sexist, and patriarchal society. No need to let them shape you into something you aren't.

[Cindy Stephens]

     As someone who lived through most of the gay pride movement with a male lover, I think there is a lot to be learned.  People had rarely met an openly gay person!  It is far easier to condemn someone unknown and seemingly strange. Then when your neighbor, your boss, someone from church, came out openly - that's what changed the dynamic.  It is much harder to condemn someone you know personally and have some respect for.  It is my understanding that only 18% of Americans know or have ever met a transgender person.  Their limited knowlege comes from watching them being arrested on COPS!, or in some other lowlife interaction with the police on on other shows. 
     While I have many reservations concerning Kaitlyn, at least she represents a successful, loving parent able to maintain loving relationships with her children.  "Hmmm, Maybe there aren't so bad."  It puts a positive idea, maybe only the kernel of an idea into their heads.  Hopefully enough to knock the image of the "->-bleeped-<- hooker" out of their mind.  This is what happened with gay pride.  We stopped being perverts that wanted sex with your little boy and became fine decent folks that are just a little bit different.
     Now if we could just hold our noses, stop fighting among ourselves and present a coherent, acceptable package to the masses.  The preachers of Armageddon do exactly that by demonizing us because we are the strange and unknown.  I have seen a chart showing acceptance rates, based on various criteria.  Our acceptance rates goes up dramatically with formal education.  College grads have a much higher respect and understanding.  It decreases with age-old people (fox news watchers) hate us, millennials have little problem.  It seems to me that we need to package our struggle to the well educated as well as the young.  Our numbers are miniscule, but outrage and acceptance are contagious. 
      Infect those already on our side and we have an army of defenders and soldiers.  Present those against us as old-thinking, ignorant, and hypocritical.  Pat Robertson lovers who think the recent stock price drops were because of Gay Marriage.  What right thinking person would want to be associated with that?  At least outside of some parts of Tennessee?  What it takes though is a clear vision that is presented to them that they can identify with and support.  I don't think we do that by trying to hide.  I applaud those intrepid adults and children who have been stepping out, presenting themselves, accepting the stones and arrows and are the true pioneers of our ultimate acceptance.