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Asperger's and Gender Dysphoria?

Started by KyleEdric, September 07, 2015, 06:58:53 AM

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KyleEdric

Does anyone know about Asperger's Syndrome Intersecting with Gender Dysphoria and Transgender? Since I have Asperger's, my mom is worried that my dysphoria and extreme need to transition (and transition soon) is nothing more than another Asperger's obsession. While I admit, I've recognized my obsession cycles before, this is one that I feel I won't grow out of. I hate my female body and Mom is always chiming in with, "Well, WHAT do you hate about it?" when I tell her "Everything. Periods, breasts, my voice, long hair, clothes, etc.", I get, "But lots of women hate those things, too." and I'm just like... >.< We've had this conversation at least four times....

So has anyone found any studies explaining this correlation?
"I know your soul is not tainted, even though you've been told so."~Ghost 'Cirice'

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Lady Smith

My daughter has Aspergers and identifies as demigirl/non binary.  Growing up I had mild autism spectrum aspects which I seemed to grow out of, but which certainly impacted on my ability to function socially.  I don't know of any studies that have been done on Aspergers and Gender Dysphoria, but it's certainly a correlation that we both have been aware of subjectively for a long time now.
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Tristyn

To be honest, I am starting to think that Gender Dysphoria is the result of the painful self-denial we all put ourselves through at some point or another in our lives to try to be "normal" in the eyes of society, family, and friends, when all we are doing is making ourselves very sick...mentally. So when we become sick, our bodies let us know in some form or another. I think Gender Dysphoria creates a major chain reaction in most of us. It can lead to a myriad of co-morbid mental illnesses like depression, ocd, eating disorders, dissociative personality disorder, Asperger's/autism, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, just lots or maybe anything possibly.

Personally speaking here, I believe strongly that I also have Asperger's. I have not received an official diagnosis of it just yet. But I took the quotient online test multiple times and always receiving a score range between 36-38 which is a strong indicator of having this. Every time I have read about it, feels similar to how I feel reading about trans folk and their experiences; its like reading about my own self. I would not at all be surprised if such correlations do exist between Asperger's Syndrome and Gender Dysphoria. Its your body sayin', "Be yourself...now!"


~Nixy~
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rachel89

I probably have Asperger's to some degree.


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FTMDiaries

Perhaps you might try to explain why those elements of being female-bodied upset you, to help her understand. For me, my body felt completely alien and I couldn't stand the thought that everyone who looked at me saw those horrible things on my chest, or heard that high-pitched voice, and so on... because those features misrepresented me and they caused other people to treat me in a wholly inappropriate way.

I also understand your mother's concern that this is just another obsession: she's probably seen you perseverate before and she thinks this is the same thing. Well, I can tell you this: most trans people, including those who are not on the autism spectrum, tend to experience a similar surge of 'obsession' as soon as we accept the fact that we need to transition. The time between accepting you're trans and starting your medical transition can be a very difficult period, full of anxiety and depression, because as soon as you decide to transition your need to move forward suddenly accelerates until it becomes pretty much all-encompassing and you feel like you need to do it yesterday. That's a perfectly normal reaction and it looks similar to autistic perseveration, but it's not quite the same thing, as I suspect you've already noticed.

Here's another fact: obsessive phases tend to last something in the region of six months. You've probably found this yourself, and so has your mother. So you could bring this up with her, remind her how long your 'obsessive phases' normally last, and point out that you've felt this way for X number of years already so it's definitely very different. You could also point out that all those attempts you made at fitting in as a girl were actually phases you were going through at the time as a way to help you cope with what you thought was an impossible situation. After all, you probably dropped each of those attempts after a couple of months so you could try something else, didn't you?

There's a lot of research out there that points towards links between the autism spectrum & gender dysphoria. If you Google 'autism gender dysphoria' and click on the link for scholarly articles at the top, you'll find a lot of research material that might help you, including some truly horrible stuff going back to the 1990s. Research suggests that people on the autism spectrum are far more likely to have gender dysphoria than non-autists.

Your mother is probably just trying to find excuses for your dysphoria, blaming it on the autism so that she can pretend it isn't real or is just a phase you're going through. But it can certainly be very real, and it isn't at all unusual to find trans people who are also somewhere on the spectrum. She's also probably going through the 'bargaining' phase of grief - trying to ask you to wait a bit longer & not rush into hormones is a classic sign of this - and the best thing you can do is to gently but firmly push forward with your plans.

Oh, and I have been diagnosed with Asperger's too. My GIC doctor says he often sees improvements with his AFAB autistic patients once we start T, because our autistic behaviours seem more natural once we pass as male. Make of that what you will, but it's certainly true in my case! :)





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KyleEdric

It's especially troubling for her to see me go through this because she's familiar with the "I believed I was male/female my whole life" stories of transition. Even my sister, who is very good friends with a lot of trans, non conforming, and various other members of the lgbt, told me she has never once heard of a person wanting to transition in the middle of their lives, and so suddenly like I have. The both told me it's "suspicious"...

I'm being told my reasons for wanting to transition is a way to reject my femininity because of how terribly I was bullied and lied to by mostly girls throughout my school life. Even if that was partly true, why would it matter?

I'm being told that I want to transition because I fell in love with a guy whom I've known for the past three years, and just two years ago, he told me he'd been thinking about being a woman. A year after, I woke up and realized I hated being a woman, and felt so immensely right by presenting as male, but I'm still being told that since I was so in love with this guy, that maybe I'm subconsciously believing he'd love me more if he was male, or something...

No one seems to be caring (or listening) to the fact that I AM HAPPIER THAN I HAVE EVER BEEN IN YEARS!
But no. According to my family I MUST be either overcompensating for something or I haven't learned to love myself enough as a female.

"Oh! TONS of women hate breasts, and periods, sitting to pee, etc!"
I'd like to know if those same woman would happily get their breasts, uteruses etc. removed if they hate them so much like I do. Again, because this is so damn sudden, everyone is eying me with tons of suspicion...
"I know your soul is not tainted, even though you've been told so."~Ghost 'Cirice'

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Dena

I sometimes wonder if we all have a touch of it because pretty much everybody with TS that I talk with seems to have a higher IQ. We also seem to have social issues but I can't say of that's the result of not being fit for our social environment or because of other issues. Transsexualism is believed to be cause by incorrect hormone exposer before birth and all of us carry it through out our life. People may figure it out as late as 50 or 60 years old or as young as 3 years old. Because you just understood you aren't CIS is not saying you haven't been dealing with it a long time. Things may not have been right in you life for a long time but you just didn't put the pieces together until now. If you look at your younger life, you might find your interest or clothing section tended to be more tomboy or male. If you don't see it, don't worry because it can be hard to see. I exhibited female behavior very young but I did so in a way that made me look like a very well behaved boy. It was only much latter in life I was able to see it.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Jacqueline

Quote from: Dena on September 10, 2015, 10:09:42 AM
I sometimes wonder if we all have a touch of it because pretty much everybody with TS that I talk with seems to have a higher IQ. We also seem to have social issues but I can't say of that's the result of not being fit for our social environment or because of other issues. ... People may figure it out as late as 50 or 60 years old or as young as 3 years old.

Dena has made some good pertinent points.

+another one on the aspergers end of the autistic spectrum. I have not found any studies but that does not mean they don't exist.

I don't know what being in the "middle" of your life means to them. However, either through denial or being obtuse, I did not realize my transgender nature till last January or February. I am moving slowly but suddenly can't stop thinking about transition. I am 50. I just thought everyone felt depressed and anxious(occasionally suicidal and all the other lovely dysphoric symptoms). Only differences I knew were that: I don't recognize myself in the mirror, hate the way he looks; and the dark secret of cross dressing in private.  Unless one is in the community, it is rare that one can speak with authority about what is common or not.

It seems that they can have concerns and opinions for and about you but ultimately only you and your therapist can say if this is just part of "another obsession". I guess your families "reasons" could be why you are "obsessed" now. However, I would ask if the self-discovery of being on the transgender spectrum is the logical conclusion to arrive upon when presented with these instances? Maybe, maybe not. Back to you and a therapist. I hope you have had a chance to visit one. That is more important than your families opinions.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. I wish you love, acceptance and a smooth journey, where ever it takes you.

With warmth,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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rachel89

That is kind of my experience too. Most of the trans people I know with IRL or talk with frequently seem conspicuously more intelligent than average. I can only think of one trans person IRL who does not seem all that bright, or at least uses poor judgement on a regular basis. Every meeting at my trans-feminine support group quickly becomes a nerdfest. I know 6 other trans women IRL and 1 of them claims to have Asperger's and is probably right and 4 out of the 6 are definitely nerdy types. It could also be that its a pretty small sample, or that I tend to make friends with people who have similar traits. Still, it seems like nerdy types/people with traits typically associated with Asperger's are over-represented in the trans community compared to the general population. It would be really interesting to conduct a study on the prevalence Asperger's/Autism traits n the trans community.


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FTMDiaries

Quote from: KyleEdric on September 10, 2015, 10:05:53 AM
Even my sister, who is very good friends with a lot of trans, non conforming, and various other members of the lgbt, told me she has never once heard of a person wanting to transition in the middle of their lives, and so suddenly like I have. The both told me it's "suspicious"...

I started my transition at age 40 and there are loads of people here who started to transition even later than I did. It's not at all unusual, because many of us fight these feelings for years before eventually doing what we need to do. I know of people who didn't realise they were trans until they were in their 50s. Your sister doesn't know enough about the subject, and she doesn't know anywhere near enough people, to make such a proclamation. Also, certain sections of the LGBT community are hugely transphobic so who knows where she's getting her info from?

Quote from: KyleEdric on September 10, 2015, 10:05:53 AM
"Oh! TONS of women hate breasts, and periods, sitting to pee, etc!"
I'd like to know if those same woman would happily get their breasts, uteruses etc. removed if they hate them so much like I do.

What a crock. If women dislike those things (or anything else), they generally don't dislike them because they're women, or because these things cause other people to perceive them as being female... they dislike the negative aspects of those things. Not the things themselves.

Breasts? They probably don't like having them bounce when running, or having to wear a bra every day.
Periods? They probably don't like the mess, pain and inconvenience.
Sitting to pee? They probably don't like dirty toilet seats.

Those are the real reasons why some women dislike those things, and they're entirely different from a trans guy's reasons. You can apply that kind of thinking to just about any aspect of being female-bodied that your family could possibly come up with. It isn't the femaleness, or the 'being a woman' part that women hate: it's the pain; the increased personal risk; the misogyny; the inequality; the underrepresentation; the damage to their bodies; the extra expense; & so on & so on. For you, presumably, you hate those things because you're not a woman and it feels incredibly jarring for these things that are typically associated with women to be happening to you.

There are things about being male that suck too, and many guys hate those things and wish they were different. But that doesn't mean they don't identify as guys, or that they want to become women because of them. They just hate the sucky stuff that they have to put up with.

As for your family's other excuses... as soon as they start bringing them up, hold up your hand to stop them. Tell them you're going through a lot at the moment and what you really need from them is their support, not their negativity. Tell them that you're not doing this for anyone else, and you're not doing it because of anyone else. You're doing it for you, and they can either respect your decision and stand by your side whilst you go on this amazing journey together... or they can keep their opinions to themselves.





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