HRT yet still presenting as male?

[twinklepose]

Hi folks, I'm fairly new here and have just began my transition journey after meeting my GP last week. I'm 41 abd I've been referred to the Nottingham GIC clinic (in the UK) and now must just wait for the wheels of process to begin to turn.

I've honestly never felt happier. It feels 100% the right thing to do.

I would like to begin taking HRT to feminise my body - so breasts, hips, bottom, thighs and all the rest.

However, I am not transsexual and have no desire for SRS. Whether that may change in the future, I have no idea - probably not - but I certainly don't wish to present as a woman day in and day out right now.

I'm what you might call non-binary. I love dressing as a woman and would love a more female shape, but I would not like to transition completely. I would like to continue doing what I do now - presenting as a male but a rather androgynous one - so I wear girls' jeans, T-shirts, trainers etc - however they're not obviously female clothes. So no pinks or flowers. I'm androgynous (apart from my underwear, which is 100% girly).

So I just wondered if any of you had any experience of someone like me - who would like to begin taking estrogen, via the gender clinic - but who would still like to present as a man (so no year-long RLE for me).

I did email the GIC and they said this: "We have experience in treating non binary patients.  Each case is assessed and treated individually.  Hormones can be given after the assessment process and patients don't have to be in the real-life experience for a year before being started on hormone treatment."

I guess that sounds encouraging anyway. Any help anyone could give me would be massively appreciated. xx

[Skylar1992]

Each to his or her own, if you enjoy it, you don't need confirmation to do it.

[Dena]

One thing to consider is I was on hormones about 3 years before I went full time and my development was small enough I didn't have to hide it. Other people have bloomed and if you are one of those, you might have to bind or be more open about your activities. Make that decision before you start on HRT. As far as the medical system in the UK, I know little about it because I am in the United States but I think a private doctor is an option if the public medical system won't support you.

[Devlyn]

I'm non-binary, I've taken supplements to feminize my body but I have no plans to have any surgeries. I do present as female most of the time now, in contrast to your plans. So yeah, non-binaries who wish to feminize their bodies are around. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[MugwortPsychonaut]

Let your gender be what it wants. It sounds like you're on a good path, anyway.

[Tessa James]

For me transition =personal liberation.  I am certainly non binary in that i have no goals for some stereotypical place of complete femininity or womanhood (whatever that is).  I previously coped with decades of dysphoria by living a somewhat androgynous life.

Part of the beauty of personal liberation and transition for me has been to own my style and dress as I choose while enjoying pursuits that are not necessarily gender specific.  We can recognize that feminists have paved the way for women in most western countries to dress as they please and aspire as they will to any career.  Gender is not the same as gender roles and people of any gender will hopefully feel free to realize their personal potential for growth and development.

Present as you feel comfortable with yourself is my advice

[sam1234]

Whether or not you are a transgender will bear out in time. Actually you are probably doing what is the safest route at this time. You can always take the hormones away if you decide at some point that you don't want to present at female anymore. Obviously that isn't so with surgeries. I guess you  could take out breast implants or have breast reduction, but once your package is gone, its gone and there is no getting it back.

The main thing is how you feel and at what point you are comfortable. Although we are effected by what others say, either mean or friendly, we still have to live with ourselves at the end of the day. Nowadys, there really isn't a "norm" and gender is more fluid. I hope you have found what will make you happy.

sam1234

[twinklepose]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Dena, yes I've thought about what you say. My plan is to wear shapewear camisoles once I get to the point where breast growth becomes obvious and I'm presenting as a man. My mum and sister are only A cups, though, so I'm not expecting any huge growth there.

Devlyn, you mention supplements. Have you gone down the NHS route at all?

Sam, I'm most definitely transgender - I just don't consider myself to be transsexual. I'm sort of somewhere between ->-bleeped-<- and transsexual on the spectrum. I love feminine clothes and would like the curves - but I don't think I'll ever want surgery. My dysphoria simply isn't as strong as some on this forum.

Is there anyone else who has had experience of transitioning as non-binary with the NHS? I am so happy that I've had my referral to the GIC - but part of me is utterly terrified that I may be turned down for HRT because I'm "not trans enough". Do many people get turned down?

[Rue]

Good morning. NHS Wales have very recently prescribed me HRT (Estradiol Valerate/Gosrelin implant) even though I present as male and am uncertain about SRS (not that I don't want it, more that it's major, invasive surgery and I'm not sure I can handle that at my age). FFS is more important to me and I've made that clear to the psychs.
.
As you know, the NHS transgender policies are adhered to more in the breach; each GIC seems to interpret the policy in its own way, I think the tide is turning in favour of informed consent (NHS Wales used to insist on 1 year RLE before HRT). I'd be hopeful in your position.

[Devlyn]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Dena, yes I've thought about what you say. My plan is to wear shapewear camisoles once I get to the point where breast growth becomes obvious and I'm presenting as a man. My mum and sister are only A cups, though, so I'm not expecting any huge growth there.

Devlyn, you mention supplements. Have you gone down the NHS route at all?

Sam, I'm most definitely transgender - I just don't consider myself to be transsexual. I'm sort of somewhere between ->-bleeped-<- and transsexual on the spectrum. I love feminine clothes and would like the curves - but I don't think I'll ever want surgery. My dysphoria simply isn't as strong as some on this forum.

Is there anyone else who has had experience of transitioning as non-binary with the NHS? I am so happy that I've had my referral to the GIC - but part of me is utterly terrified that I may be turned down for HRT because I'm "not trans enough". Do many people get turned down?

I'm in Boston, we don't have NHS. I don't need therapists, doctors, and needles in my life anyway. The supplements are giving me the curves I want and that's all I'm looking for. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[katrinaw]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

Dena, yes I've thought about what you say. My plan is to wear shapewear camisoles once I get to the point where breast growth becomes obvious and I'm presenting as a man. My mum and sister are only A cups, though, so I'm not expecting any huge growth there.

Devlyn, you mention supplements. Have you gone down the NHS route at all?

Sam, I'm most definitely transgender - I just don't consider myself to be transsexual. I'm sort of somewhere between ->-bleeped-<- and transsexual on the spectrum. I love feminine clothes and would like the curves - but I don't think I'll ever want surgery. My dysphoria simply isn't as strong as some on this forum.

Is there anyone else who has had experience of transitioning as non-binary with the NHS? I am so happy that I've had my referral to the GIC - but part of me is utterly terrified that I may be turned down for HRT because I'm "not trans enough". Do many people get turned down?

Here we go, I have been on HRT for 12 years, I am 62 now... too scared to go FT as I can't tell my wife of 40 years and kids and grandkids, let alone the large family in relations... but that's my biggest problem...
Now to the topic in hand, I have B cups, for an oldie good waist shape, however my butt has not gone in proportion? 
So I have to stay in male mode most of the time (well till now) Just wore tightish tee shirts under a (what was loose'ish shirts) I still show through but, have seemingly got away with it...

Maybe that will help... oh by the way careful of guy jeans

No I am not in UK anymore... so can't help you with your question, sorry!

L Katy xxxx

[Deborah]

I've been on HRT for 9 months and still present male.  At work I wear khakis with a shirt and tie. 

I don't try to hide anything.  For me at least trying to hide feels invalidating like a step back into the black hole I just recently crawled out of.

Breast growth is not huge but at least to me is noticeable.  It is especially noticeable in the t shirts I run in.  My face has changed to some degree too..

Has anybody noticed?  I don't know.  Nobody has made any comments nor have people acted weird around me.

The exception is with my hair that I haven't cut since last Dec.  A couple of friends occasionally say I look like a girl or ask if I'm going to do like Caitlyn Jenner.  (They don't say those things in a mean way).

Usually I just respond and ask them when they are going to buy me a drink.  LOL

My work environment is hyper masculine.  About 95% male, 99% Army or ex-Army, mostly infantry and armor people, a significant minority Army Rangers.

It probably helps that I'm really good at my job.


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[laura.cornwell.779]

My therapist recently wrote a letter for one of her patient's to be prescribed HRT. The patient has no intention of ever transitioning. He does not want to be addressed as female. He only wants to look female as a sexual fetish. It is an accepted part of his treatment.

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[AnonyMs]

My therapist recently wrote a letter for one of her patient's to be prescribed HRT. The patient has no intention of ever transitioning. He does not want to be addressed as female. He only wants to look female as a sexual fetish. It is an accepted part of his treatment.

When I first started I wondered if there was something sexual to it, but the drop in T showed it wasn't. I'm not sure how you'd actually fare if it was a fetish. I'd guess you'd totally lose interest in it then stop and have it come back, which would be hard to deal with.

[laura.cornwell.779]

I haven't a clue as to how this individual feels, the reason I brought this to the site was to show that HRT is no longer difficult to be prescribed. There are a vast degree of individuals with differing reasons and desires to alter their bodies and minds. To believe one must fit into particular categories to qualify for medical intervention is not how many therapists and doctors approach individual treatments today.

Also, the gatekeeper approach can be easily sidestepped if one has contacts, money and a knowledge of the way current treatments are carried out.

A patient in Thailand at Dr Suporn's clinic that I got to know, side stepped many of the requirements of this world renowned surgeon's practices.

She had not lived as a woman. The letter that she carried was written by her therapist, the same therapist she lived with. The same therapist she had been in a relationship with and who had diagnosed her as being
transgender wh gender dysphoria. They still lived together when this occured though the relationship at that point was just as friends.

I am not going to get into ethics, I just want to make it abundantly clear that treatment in the various medical and mental health practices is changing rapidly as the understanding of just how profoundly diverse people are becomes more apparent to everyone as well.

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[AnonyMs]

Hi Laura, I didn't mean to suggest I was judging anything. All things considered I'd be the last person to do that. I just found it interesting; I'd considered it myself and I never seen anyone post on that topic before.

I'm all for stepping around gatekeeping; I even told my psych that if I ever ask for SRS letters and he refuses I'll just get them elsewhere. I believe its important to be open with my psych.

When I started on this journey I spent a great deal of effort making sure I can step around gatekeeping and all, but it was totally wasted. I'm a bit of odd case and even so I've experienced nothing but help from the people in Sydney.

Dr Suporn's my absolute favorite surgeon, and I don't believe that the person you mentioned was stepping around his requirements. He says you need a letter, in compliance with Thai law, and that's what he got. Its not his responsibility how you got it (or any other surgeon's) and its impractical to check. I've no issue being in a relationship with your therapist either, so long as its not abusive. To miss out on a relationship just because of how other people might judge it is not something I'd tolerate.

For practical reasons I have no intention of socially transitioning in the foreseeable future, but perhaps you'll see me in Thailand one day. I really don't care what anyone else thinks.

I usually post on these subjects about presenting male and gatekeeping, but I got a bit worn out with it lately so I didn't before this. You posted two new things I'd not come across before and for what its worth you definitely have my attention. Its great. Please keep it up.

[Swayallday]

Hi folks, ...

i'd rather be one then the other.
Nontheless my living situation at the moment doesn't allow to.
Despite that HRT was still an option.
So I wasn't pushed to live one or the other gender.

I say go for it, i'm in the same boat, somewhat :p

I haven't a clue as to how this individual feels, the reason I brought this to the site was to show that HRT is no longer difficult to be prescribed. There are a vast degree of individuals with differing reasons and desires to alter their bodies and minds. To believe one must fit into particular categories to qualify for medical intervention is not how many therapists and doctors approach individual treatments today.

I also had this feeling
and support the notion you can still take the hormones away if you're insecure about what's happening.

[AnonyMs]

I guess I should mention that I've been on HRT more than 5 years now and I'm still presenting male. The first years were low dose, but a bit over a year ago I changed to a full transitioning dose. I have no intention of social transition anytime soon and my psych and endo have not the slightest issue with it. I'm in Sydney, Australia.

I'd have serious issues if I had to socially transition, and I suspect I'd emigrate before I did that.

[Rachel]

It you go onto HRT at a transitioning dose in 3 to 6 months you may find your thoughs and desires have changed significantly. You may find that you want to fully transition.

HRT for me, I knew I would never stop at 6 weeks to 2 months. It sounds like, from what you wrote, that you will really like the effects of HRT.

[twinklepose]

Wow, thanks so much for all the replies, everyone. You've been really reassuring and helped me a lot.

There's no doubt that I want to do this. I guess I'm just a little nervous that, at the end of the long, long process with the GIC, I'll be told: "No, sorry, we can't help you."

Are many people turned down for HRT at GICs? That really would be the worst thing in the world as I want this so much.

Also, does anyone know roughly how long it takes from being referred by your GP (in England) to getting a letter from the GIC? Am so impatient!

Thanks again, ladies, gentlemen and those in between, like me. x