Susan's Place Logo

News:

Based on internal web log processing I show 3,417,511 Users made 5,324,115 Visits Accounting for 199,729,420 pageviews and 8.954.49 TB of data transfer for 2017, all on a little over $2,000 per month.

Help support this website by Donating or Subscribing! (Updated)

Main Menu

Is RLT still a thing?

Started by Obfuskatie, September 13, 2015, 05:23:47 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kylo

One of my relatives was just approved on NHS for hormones and is probably receiving them by now. Far as I know, no RLE was required, just 3 previous sessions with a psych evaluator and a doctor.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
  •  

AnonyMs

Quote from: cheryl reeves on October 29, 2015, 01:16:35 AM
Like I said before what is wrong with rle? I personally think the transitioner should know what they are getting into before there is no way back. I know prosthetics are expensive but they help you get a feel of what its going too be like all the time.

For you nothing, for me everything.
  •  

Sheila Grace

Quote from: Obfuskatie on September 13, 2015, 05:55:42 PM
I guess i figured that because it is literally impossible to document a year's worth of living in your chosen gender, that that aspect of the WPATH requirements was fudgeable. I know that while it isn't recommended, you can transition in stealth, and I was under the impression that the documented transition time was used as the hard and fast 1yr rule, i.e. if you started medical transition 6 months ago, surgeons would prefer to wait until you are further along the process so they don't risk performing surgery on someone who might choose to detransition.

I guess I just didn't realize this was a concrete rule some of y'all had to deal with, since I'm only worried about spending too many years on spiro and hurting my liver before I have time for my surgery and recovery.

I am a retired physician. I feel really strongly about this as I think it is a boundary issue. In sum: it is my life and my body. Period. If I am competent and have, with my doctor, determined that GRS is appropriate then a referral to the surgeon should be made. I would hope that my physician would ask me about my comfort in living as my chosen gender, find out what my therapist thought, and spend some time in helping formulate an opinion. If this all seemed well reasoned and there were no contraindications, the year period is simply arbitrary. I suspect that there is nothing in the literature that proves that 365 days is a golden standard. My body and its modification is the focal point and ground zero for enough in this journey. Why make rigid standards another battleground? Just my opinion. Sheila Grace
I am an older MTF in transition. Currently negotiating this time of life with my SO of many years. I am PT and on HRT.



  •  

Obfuskatie


Quote from: Sheila Grace on October 29, 2015, 09:22:02 AM
I am a retired physician. I feel really strongly about this as I think it is a boundary issue. In sum: it is my life and my body. Period. If I am competent and have, with my doctor, determined that GRS is appropriate then a referral to the surgeon should be made. I would hope that my physician would ask me about my comfort in living as my chosen gender, find out what my therapist thought, and spend some time in helping formulate an opinion. If this all seemed well reasoned and there were no contraindications, the year period is simply arbitrary. I suspect that there is nothing in the literature that proves that 365 days is a golden standard. My body and its modification is the focal point and ground zero for enough in this journey. Why make rigid standards another battleground? Just my opinion. Sheila Grace
I think it's partially that they just want to do a little legal CYA for their own malpractice premiums, and partly that all surgeons especially plastic are relatively focused on results and keeping their batting average high as it were. It makes sense to me at least to have many of these hoops in order to regulate all sorts of surgeries. I think the problem is that many Cis people think of GCS as non essential. Whether they are trying to help or hinder the process, it's relatively difficult to get everything done in a FUBU kind of way.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If people are what they eat, I really need to stop eating such neurotic food  :icon_shakefist:
  •  

AnonyMs

Quote from: Sheila Grace on October 29, 2015, 09:22:02 AM
I am a retired physician. I feel really strongly about this as I think it is a boundary issue. In sum: it is my life and my body. Period. If I am competent and have, with my doctor, determined that GRS is appropriate then a referral to the surgeon should be made. I would hope that my physician would ask me about my comfort in living as my chosen gender, find out what my therapist thought, and spend some time in helping formulate an opinion. If this all seemed well reasoned and there were no contraindications, the year period is simply arbitrary. I suspect that there is nothing in the literature that proves that 365 days is a golden standard. My body and its modification is the focal point and ground zero for enough in this journey. Why make rigid standards another battleground? Just my opinion. Sheila Grace

I totally agree, and there are doctors that do as well. Its just a matter of finding them.
  •  

Peep

I don't think it's actually possible to experience what it will be like post chest surgery and hormones until it actually happens. I'm not passable at all, even with my chest bound, so how is RLE going to help? It won't be experiencing the world as male, just as feminine andro or as hideously visible trans. Or, as a butch lesbian, which is what people assume. There's no way I feel confident using a mens room yet, pre HRT. It always feels like scare tactics to me.
  •  

chance


Quote from: AnonyMs on October 29, 2015, 08:49:01 AM
For you nothing, for me everything.

The way I think is the problem I see with rle is that it is expecting that everyone wants the exact same transition.  To transition into a narrowly defined version of what a male or female must be like.  And that doesn't cover all of the genders that actually exist imho.


Sent using Tapatalk
"Live like someone left the gate open"
  •  

iKate


Quote from: Lady_Oracle on October 29, 2015, 12:21:07 AM
Yeah but it wasn't officially documented. I didn't see a psychiatrist till I started hrt, which was two years in.

Hormones doesn't mean RLE. You can be taking hormones and presenting male. Mental health treatment isn't a requirement to go full time either. You can do informed consent or even self medicate.

I've been talking to some surgeons offices and they say the guidelines for them are not set in stone, but they have to adhere to them due to insurance coverage.

But if you can prove 5 years RLE, you will likely be approved.
  •  

iKate

Quote from: Sheila Grace on October 29, 2015, 09:22:02 AM
I am a retired physician. I feel really strongly about this as I think it is a boundary issue. In sum: it is my life and my body. Period. If I am competent and have, with my doctor, determined that GRS is appropriate then a referral to the surgeon should be made. I would hope that my physician would ask me about my comfort in living as my chosen gender, find out what my therapist thought, and spend some time in helping formulate an opinion. If this all seemed well reasoned and there were no contraindications, the year period is simply arbitrary. I suspect that there is nothing in the literature that proves that 365 days is a golden standard. My body and its modification is the focal point and ground zero for enough in this journey. Why make rigid standards another battleground? Just my opinion. Sheila Grace

Dr Marci Bowers says she disagrees like you do but has to go along with it for insurance coverage reasons.

My view is that unless you have intense genital dysphoria and/or want to be sexually active, holding off a year is no real big deal. But again, I'd the above two apply to you I can see how you'd want to move as quickly as possible.
  •  

cheryl reeves

I'm not trying too cause any problems,but I still can't wrap my head around why so many transgender bulk at rle. If you live your life as male or female and want too transition wouldn't you like too know what your getting into,instead of jumping into the deep end without testing the waters? I've known a few cders who decided they were transsexual and jumped without first testing the waters,then found they should have tested the water first,one wanted too transition back,the other was kinda withdrawn after.  Sure it's your body but wouldn't you want too know what your getting into?
  •  

AnonyMs

Quote from: cheryl reeves on October 31, 2015, 12:13:47 PM
I'm not trying too cause any problems,but I still can't wrap my head around why so many transgender bulk at rle. If you live your life as male or female and want too transition wouldn't you like too know what your getting into,instead of jumping into the deep end without testing the waters? I've known a few cders who decided they were transsexual and jumped without first testing the waters,then found they should have tested the water first,one wanted too transition back,the other was kinda withdrawn after.  Sure it's your body but wouldn't you want too know what your getting into?

I may be a bit unusual, but I'm trying not to transition and only doing as little as possible to keep my sanity. Social transition is the last thing I'm going to do after trying everything else, including SRS. It doesn't matter if I don't know what RLE is like, because I'm doing it the other way around. If I finally get to it and RLE works out badly I'm in big trouble as there's nothing else left.

It may not be a good idea, but its what I choose. I do have a few reasons that make sense to me.

  •  

Peep

Quote from: cheryl reeves on October 31, 2015, 12:13:47 PM
I'm not trying too cause any problems,but I still can't wrap my head around why so many transgender bulk at rle. If you live your life as male or female and want too transition wouldn't you like too know what your getting into,instead of jumping into the deep end without testing the waters? I've known a few cders who decided they were transsexual and jumped without first testing the waters,then found they should have tested the water first,one wanted too transition back,the other was kinda withdrawn after.  Sure it's your body but wouldn't you want too know what your getting into?

How does RLE let you know this?

Unless you're transitioning in the sense of a complete, traditional, outdated gender binary switch, and unless you can actually pass, RLE with no hormones and no surgery doesn't tell you anything about what your life will be like.

Literally the only thing that will change in my public life post transition is different changing rooms at the gym and different bathrooms, neither of which are safe for me to experience at 120 pounds with DD breasts (can't bind all the time). Experiencing that now won't prepare me for experiencing them after.

I don't have any intention of changing my behavior or interests after transition so I'm not going to before. Why is a whole year basically doing what I've been doing for 24 years only with a binder making it difficult to eat and breathe going to help at all?
  •  

suzifrommd

Quote from: cheryl reeves on October 31, 2015, 12:13:47 PM
I'm not trying too cause any problems,but I still can't wrap my head around why so many transgender bulk at rle.

I resent a group of cisgender doctors deciding what test I need to pass before I'm allowed to be considered a member of my gender.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Peep

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 31, 2015, 04:24:05 PM
I resent a group of cisgender doctors deciding what test I need to pass before I'm allowed to be considered a member of my gender.

Yes, this. I also resent not being trusted as an adult to make life changing decisions.

There's no RLE for breast augmentation, despite high levels of regret there. What about having babies? If i was infertile or getting IVF would they make me carry a dolly around for a year?

ETA: @cheryl - just to clarify, I'm not mad at you, i'm annoyed by the NHS ;)
  •  

Kylo

In my view, most of us are compelled to be "getting into" this because our lives are already barely liveable. It's amazing how so many cis people I've spoken to think admitting to being trans is something you can say on a whim, that going through transition is something you could "accidentally" do, just because you happened to feel like it at that time. Incredible.

I could understand the trepidation of parents dealing with a younger transgender child because the issue of whether they are making informed decisions is valid. But as very much an adult with a lifelong track record of knowing exactly what I want and not being stupid, I still get spoken to on this matter as if I am a child.

It takes much patience and teeth-gritting to get through it without putting someone's head through a wall sometimes.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
  •  

KayMc

I' think an arguement could easily be made that a year of RLE might be appropriate before having kids, too. ;)


OK, jokes aside, there's a LOT of misunderstanding here. That's in no small part because the guidelines are deliberately a little vague, so that clinicians have wiggle room, and also because how they get interpreted varies wildly from place to place.

The WPATH guidelines do NOT call for RLE before hormones. Anyone trying to require RLE before hormones is acting OUTSIDE of the established guidelines for transgender care.

The criteria for hormone therapy are as follows:
1. Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria;
2. Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment;
3. Age of majority in a given country (if younger, follow the SOC outlined in section VI);
4. If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled.

That's all. No RLE.

Again, clinicians trying to require RLE for hormones are acting OUTSIDE of the existing standards of care, and irresponsibly. (Yes, I am aware that the NHS in the UK is still catching up to the modern SOC, but they are working on it.)

Basically, for most folks, the ideal full-transition (from one binary gender to another) would look something like: 6-12 month of hormones, followed by 12 months of RLE as the new gender, followed by GRS/GCS if desired.

There is wiggle room around RLE, don't forget. The requirement for RLE is to experience "12 continuous months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity."

That doesn't mean that if you were born with male genetalia and want female genetalia that you must go present as a woman for 12 months. It means that you need to present as whatever YOUR target gender identity is for that period of time. The reason why this was tweaked was to allow for a much broader, non-binary specrtum of options. WPATH has recognized that not everyone wants to be a binary gender (this is cool), and is making efforts to expand the WPATH guidelines to allow for whatever presentation fits YOU.

If you've been living as a neutral, non-binary (pick word of your choice here, please!) gender presentation for a couple of years now and hve come to feel that GRS is vital to that presentation, you do NOT need to go get an extra year of RLE as a woman/man to get it, under current guidelines. You just need those 12 months living as your target presentation.

I'm in favor. This is a huge deal. It's a massive, largely irreversible change. There are mental disorders which can also carry gender dysphoria - not common, but neither is being transgender.

In my opinion, it's not a hoop to jump through. It's reaching part of the goal. The goal, after all, is to live life as normally as possible as whatever our target presentation might be... The sooner we get going on that, the better. "RLE" isn't a year. It's the rest of our lives.
  •  

KayMc

Should have added, too - one important reason to jump to HRT rapidly is the frequency of cases where it provides rapid relief to patients. A lot of the time, the hormonal change can provide enough relief that it's much easier to ride out the 12-24 months until surgery. There's some debate about how much of this impact is the actual hormone changes, and how much of it is the psychological improvement from taking real, concrete steps toward fixing our genders. But the source matters less than the effect, which is pretty well documented. Hormones help a lot of us.
  •