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Deep Vein Thrombosis & Hormone Therapy

Started by Joi, December 27, 2015, 09:50:29 PM

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Joi

Has anyone encountered problems with "Deep Vein Thrombosis" that might be attributable to HRT?


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Angélique LaCava

No. I workout everyday,drink plenty of water, and take 1 aspirin a day to help prevent any blood clots or DVT.
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janetcgtv

I have DVT
DVT and HRT can be FATAL
HRT causes bleeding and because of DVT you would be very likely of getting blood clots.
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Cindy

I know several women who have developed DVTs while on HRT. It can be devastating even if they recover as the need to come off HRT.

It is extremely serious. If you suspect one get to an ER immediately.
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Lara

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Cindy

If there is a DVT in the brain, intense headaches and maybe lack of coordination (a stroke basically). In the limbs, swelling and very painful to the touch.

The basic rule for a DVT is if you suspect one get help and checked out immediately. They can be fatal very rapidly if the clot breaks and moves towards the lungs.

If I suspected one I would call an ambulance for immediate transfer to a hospital.

Better be safe than dead - or worse.
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Ms Grace

Symptoms of deep vein thrombosis (DVT)

QuoteIn some cases of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) there may be no symptoms, but possible symptoms can include:

  • pain, swelling and tenderness in one of your legs (usually your calf)
  • a heavy ache in the affected area.
  • warm skin in the area of the clot.
  • redness of your skin, particularly at the back of your leg below the knee.

You can reduce the risk of clotting (especially when on estrogen/HRT) by not smoking, reducing fatty and oily foods, regular exercising, getting your blood pressure checked... plus, do not self medicate HRT, clotting is one of the biggest risks from this practice.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Joi

Thanks to all for you comments.  I suspect it, but I haven't been able to confirm it.  Pain in the calf especially when walking long distances.  Swelling of the calf and numbness and swelling in the ankle.  Guess I should go to an ER.
This would be devastating if I have to stop HRT. + I have GCS in less than a month. OMG!


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RobynD

I have been worried about DVT and can be somewhat crazy about my health. My doc said definitely let he know if there is any swelling , discoloration etc. When i asked her if i should ever go to the ER, she was like. well maybe if you see symptoms, or at least head to urgent care. That seemed sort of inexact, but what is she going to say i guess?

Having said that, my exercise and workout routine has changed to a more punishing one and i am getting more bruises in general and when i do get leg pain, i assume it is because of the abuse i inflict on my middle aged body from sports etc.

I've moved to taking aspirin daily, eating less fats, more whole grains, drinking more water, and taking my estradiol under the tongue. I'd have to say it is one of my biggest fears even though i have not had any swelling, only aches and pains.

Once you stop HRT for DVT can you ever resume?

I think if i had the symptoms described i would go to the ER


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Joi

Thanks Robyn!

I have tried to keep myself in pretty good shape in light of my upcoming surgery. I was suffering from a cold for about a month & backed off my routine of 10k on my recumbent bike 3 to 4 times a week.  But pain in my calf has kept me off that routine.

Had been a smoker most of my life (like almost 60 yrs.) and I quit early last month.  Dr's. orders pre-surgery.  Was never able to quit B4, but a successful outcome & recovery is the impetus that gave me the incentive to finally quit.

Eat right, don't drink or drug all lipids and cholesterol good (had to be for pre-op approval)  Have been on HRT for 9 mos. and have had issues getting my E levels above 75 even with increased doses (patches). Will have to stop all hormone therapy in less than 2 wks. anyway. 

I'm baffled and worried that my surgery might be affected.

I guess the smart move is to have it checked out.

Will let you know!

Hugz,

Joi


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Blush

You should be taking bio identical estrogen. This doesn't have the risks of clotting.

Finasteride in some can cause peripheral edema.
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Jalynn

I know Progynova is a bit different but is it as safe as bio identical?
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Ms Grace

Quote from: Joi on December 28, 2015, 04:41:43 PM
I guess the smart move is to have it checked out.

100% yes! It's better safe than sorry. My father recently lost two toes because an aneurism behind his knee wasn't detected and the clot got stuck in his foot and turned it black, it was about then that he went to the hospital.   :-\
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Cindy

Bio-identical E has similar (but lower) risks. The last two women I know who had brain clots where on bioidentical.

Progynoa is oestrodiol valerate. It is not bioidentical. It has a very low risk if taken correctly under medical supervision.

Hence our rules about self medication.

All oestrogen has a risk. The idea is to minimise risk. That is best accomplished by being under medical supervision.

The risk is small but exists.

My surgeon is very experienced, I was on implants but he wanted then run down prior to surgery as it reduced risk. Good surgeons will do anything to reduce risk. Yes you have a higher risk from cigarette smoking than E in developing a DVT but no medic will magnify a risk. Sure you can say - don't smoke, and enforce it. You can say reduce E, but can't enforce that in cisfemales; you can in transgender women. It is risk reduction.

In my field I will think ten times about giving chemo to someone who has life style risks. The choice I deal with is let them die with their cancer or from the poison I will use to try and cure them, or let their lifestyle kill them.

Sorry if this becomes a rant.

Why do people think we suggest/counsel women to have their mammary glands removed if they are BRAC1/2 - for fun of disfiguring a woman? Or because their risk of developing a metastatic BaC is higher than our risk boundaries?

Why do surgeons decide to reduce your E levels - if they can. So you can climb the walls in their clinic? Go nuts and lose your cool?

No.

Because it increases your chance of survival. By any margin.

OK sorry I got off topic.

My apologies.

A sorry Cindy :embarrassed:






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Blush

This entire thread so far is wrong on so many levels. It's comparing apples to oranges. The risk of clotting from bioidentical estradiol compared to every day things is so small it's frivolous to bring up other than to stir the pot. The only information I've read about clotting attributed to estrogens is from synthetic estrogens, which are, well... synthetic and not natural to the body - so go figure. No degree required here!  :)

Most people sit stagnant at home, school, or work all day. They'll sit in traffic in their car, or a plane ride. They probably don't exercise much - or like mentioned above they smoke for 60 years. The body is built to move around, to stay guessing, to stay working! What about pregnant women, with over 100x the (bioidentical) levels as most of us may have - they seem to do quite fine.
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Jalynn

Well the thread can bring out hypochondriac tendency's in some but always better to be safe.
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Joi

Had an ultrasound this afternoon at the ER and it checked out fine.  What a relief!
Doc said likely a muscle strain or tear.  Just need to take it easy and let it resolve on its own.

Thanks to all who have offered their support and positive comments!

Hugz!

Joi


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KayXo

Quote from: Cindy on December 29, 2015, 02:06:31 AM

Progynoa is oestrodiol valerate. It is not bioidentical.

Proynova is indeed estradiol valerate. IT IS bio-identical as it converted to 17 beta estradiol in the blood and not active until it is de-esterified or cleaved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7169965

"After oral or parenteral administration, oestradiol valerate, the synthesis compound contained in various commercially available preparations, is completely converted into the natural substances 17 beta-oestradiol and valeric acid. The 17 beta-oestradiol produced on cleavage of the ester behaves in the organism like the endogenous steroid hormone. Oestradiol valerate and 17 beta-oestradiol are virtually dose-equivalent. No differences in the spectrum of action of the oestrogen and its ester have been found either in animal experiments or man. The pharmacokinetic behaviour and the biotransformation of the 17 beta-oestradiol originating from oestradiol valerate are no different from those of natural 17 beta-oestradiol."


I personally take very high doses of estradiol intramuscularly (levels ranging from 1,000-4,000 pg/ml), a moderate-high dose of oral progesterone and all my blood tests have come back clean, including liver panel, clotting factors, lipids, glucose/insulin, etc. I have three doctors supervising me, an endocrinologist from Cambridge who's treated several hundred transpatients for many decades, a woman who wrote a book on female hormones and my family doctor and all approve. :)

My diet: HIGH fat (mostly animal) like bacon, eggs, butter, red meat, coconut oil, macadamias, low to medium carb, some protein, mostly animal. Lipids are great with HDL quite high and cholesterol:HDL perfectly fine.

Studies have shown that when bio-identical estradiol is taken, clotting is less affected and that especially non-orally, the effect is negligible, even at high levels. It was even claimed that estradiol, non-orally, protects against the occurrence of thrombosis.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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RobynD



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