Lack of Passability after years of HRT...what can I do?

[Ms Grace]

I have never seen a photo of me past puberty where I was next to a woman who was relatively the same size as me.  Never, ever.  Still don't.

Well, lemons, neither have I. Since I was ten I was taller than all the kids in my year at primary school (and quite a few more that were older). I know they exist but I have never seen a woman taller than me.

When I tried to transition at age 24 it bugged the freaking daylights out of me, I hated how tall I was, how huge and lumbering I seemed by comparison even to average and slightly taller than average height women. It was one of the (bajillion) reason that attempt at transition failed. This time round I am still just as tall, and parts of me are possible larger than they were before - and yet things are going fine and I pass well. The only thing that has changed was the nonsense in my head telling me I didn't/couldn't/would-never-in-a-million-years pass.

I hate to be blunt with you but you do keep coming back time and time again saying you are too big and that you don't pass - I believe you believe that, but since you can't do anything specifically physical about your hands, feet, head, etc just what can you do about it? Hormones will feminise you but they won't turn you into a woman, won't shrink your hands, feet, whatever - that is an issue the great majority of all transwomen face, especially those of us who find ourselves in the body of a goliath.

Since the physical won't change, it's the emotional/mental that has to. Instead of feeling like some lumbering neanderthal I feel like a striding amazon - I freaking own it and it turns head; and not because they think I'm trans it's because they see a striking woman. If I had told all that to 24 year old me she would have said exactly the stuff you are saying to everyone who tries to offer you support and suggestions. She would have said, "that won't work", "you don't get it", "seriously I am a monstrous freak can't you see it?"...the only reason I "didn't" pass back then was because I didn't believe I did or that I could. I was comparing myself to the most petite women I saw so no wonder I was at odds with myself.

So what can you do? Believe.

[stephaniec]

ditto

[Devlyn]

First, I think non-passing trans women can be really beautiful anyway. Also there's a vulnerability to being this way that a cis woman wouldn't have. With a bit of confidence, it's really kind of charming. So, even if I can't ever pass, I'll be happy to get to that point.

Second, I think I  just echo what Miyuki inititially said. I've seen a few of your threads, which have been interesting because you're a very similar height/build to me. You rock an andro look and it really suits you. But, it's the kind of look a girl would do if she wanted to look boyish. So, you're trying to pull of a look as if you're a cis female who is trying to look like a male. I think most trans-women wouldn't be able to pass doing that. It still works for you though. I mean you're really just fine as you are.

I seem to be almost passable with long hair (hairpiece), makeup and a skirt. I just know I wouldn't even be close to that if I tried to do an andro look that would leave many cis women looking unpassable. I think I likely won't ever be able to wear all the things a perfect 5'4" cis-female can wear and still expect to pass/blend. But, at the same time, I feel like it's ok for me not to pass blend, despite the disadvantages.

Amen to that! I love the look of an obviously transgender woman. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[lemons]

A lot of people on here are saying that pre transition photo is the first they'd ever seen a picture of me.  Here's me now, also to give you an idea of hands, feet, waist, head, etc.















I mean, I know I look fine in these, generally, and female.  The issue I keep facing is, how to accept how big I am.  Because my frame didn't change, and I am generally that same size now as I was in that photo, sans some muscle.

I have a picture in my underwear, it's essentially the same as posting a selfie in a bikini  but apparently I got a warning for that so I can't to show you my waist....

[iKate]

Seriously, the hair. The short hair is calling attention to your other features. Let it grow or try a wig. Very few Trans women can pull off short hair. Many cis women can't either.

[Emileeeee]

I can't see anybody seeing anything but a woman in that picture and I see nothing oversized either. You're being your own worst critic. I did it too. I spent years thinking I looked like this big burly guy that would look ridiculous in women's clothing. Turns out I was borderline passable and what was holding me back was my own self image.

I started complaining about those features that I thought were too masculine to my cis female friends and eventually every one of them opened up about their own features that they thought were too masculine. Soon I started paying more attention to other cis women and started to realize that I already look more feminine than some of them, even within my own family. That made me slowly start to realize that I'm not nearly as masculine as I once thought.

I would work on the voice, but again even that's not really a make or break thing. I know women on thyroid medication that have voices deeper than mine as a result of it. It's not really the sound of the voice. It's how you use it.

[cheryl reeves]

I stand 6'1",have a womans size 13 shoe size,right now I'm at 245lb,I wear a size 16-18 top, size 16 bottoms, my hair is past my collar and I pass no problems. I'm blessed that T didn't poison me. Passing is all in your mindset, I have a harder time presenting male then I do female. That profile pic is me 12 yrs ago and I have not changed much except grown older and wiser. I been after my wife for a day I can fully dress and update my pictures. So don't believe that because your big that you can't pass.

[Miyuki]

Well, lemons, neither have I. Since I was ten I was taller than all the kids in my year at primary school (and quite a few more that were older). I know they exist but I have never seen a woman taller than me.

I know that feeling. I was in a small school for my entire grade school education, and I was always the tallest person in my class. Being so big never fit my personality, but the good thing was that it did keep the bullying from other kids restricted to verbal taunting, because they knew they would be outmatched if they tried to physically assault me.

When I first started experimenting with hormone therapy, I just assumed any sort of public transition would be out of the question, because I could never look like anything other than a freak if I tried to dress like a woman. But gradually, the changes from low dose HRT combined with visiting Susan's Place and really looking at the transformations people had made here gave me hope that I could actually make it. I knew that realistically, there were things about my body that would always stand out as masculine even if I did everything in my power to make myself passable, and this bothered me a lot at first. But when I actually started to pass and got to experience what it was like to be treated as female by those around me, that's when I realized that I cared about the way others treated me much more than I cared about the issues I had with my own body, and eventually those issues quit being such a big deal. I think the best thing that ever happened to my sense of self-esteem, was that when I was visiting New York last year, I spent some time with the six year old daughter of one of my cousins, and she accepted me as her cousin Allison from the first moment we met. And I know for sure she wasn't just humoring me, because that's not something six year olds do.

I think I've posted this before, but here is a picture of me from around that time:


My hand being so close to the mirror makes it look bigger than normal, but even so, you can tell it's not small. There is pretty much nothing small about me in that picture. But, it didn't stop me from passing back then and it doesn't stop me now, so that is why I simply refuse to accept that someone with a body that probably looks smaller than mine couldn't pass because of it. It may get you clocked more often if someone is trying to clock you, but the vast majority of people will accept what they see at face value.

I mean, I know I look fine in these, generally, and female.  The issue I keep facing is, how to accept how big I am.  Because my frame didn't change, and I am generally that same size now as I was in that photo, sans some muscle.

This may not sound like the greatest advice, but the way you accept it, is to just stop caring. Look at things objectively. Does being too big in anyway stop you from doing the things you really want to do with your life? Does it bother other people nearly as much as it bothers you? Based on what I have told you, and what everyone else here has said, do you really believe it's the reason you were having difficulty passing? If none of those things are true, then just accept that even though it might bother you to think about it, in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter, and there's no reason it has to be something that stops you from being happy.

[lemons]

The consistent thing I keep seeing here is that everyone thinks they're way too big until taking a step back and seeing they're really not even compared to a lot of other women. This is not my experience.  I have searched and searched and searched for women bigger than me and have yet to see a single one, except one woman who likely had gigantism...and she still had a smaller head than me.

I see it standing next to other women too, all the time.  I know on average women are smaller but even the taller ones I look noticeably bigger next to.

The only people who have tried to tell me otherwise were two people: my mom's boyfriend who told me he's met women who were bigger than me in every way (I remember him describing this one woman who was just ginormous and neanderthal like...she was cis), and my psyhican who preoccupies my hormones, who upon having a late appointment one evening with her I expressed my concerns about my big frame and she told me "you're the smallest female patient I had today...and all the others were cis."  So adunno.  I still don't see it.

[cindianna_jones]

I believe that this is my first time seeing a picture of you. I'm not seeing any of what you're describing. Your feet are cut off in the pic, your hands are hidden, and with your arms crossed I can't really get an accurate idea of your body shape. From what I can tell, your legs are not overly muscular at all, your shoulders aren't that broad or big in any way, your waist looks fine, the weight I'm seeing is in your hips and that's not a bad thing.

I would LOVE to have some hips. It would make buying jeans SO much easier. Fortunately, I found NYDJ jeans and they fit my backside wonderfully. They are designed for women who don't have slender waists. I buy a size 8 and they fit me great. With other jeans, I have to go to a 9 or a 10 to go around my waist but then there is all that slack in the derriere. The NYDJ's sort of make me look like a teeny bopper, but hey... they fit great and I don't care how old I am or what I am "supposed" to wear for my age.

Cindi

[cindianna_jones]

The consistent thing I keep seeing here is that everyone thinks they're way too big until taking a step back and seeing they're really not even compared to a lot of other women. This is not my experience.  I have searched and searched and searched for women bigger than me and have yet to see a single one, except one woman who likely had gigantism...and she still had a smaller head than me.

I see it standing next to other women too, all the time.  I know on average women are smaller but eve the taller ones I look noticeably bigger next to.

I did a lot of consulting during my career. One time, while waiting for a plane in Paris, I found myself amongst the USA women's basketball team waiting for the same flight. Believe me. I was a runt compared to them in every way. It felt pretty good!

Cindi

[lemons]

I did a lot of consulting during my career. One time, while waiting for a plane in Paris, I found myself amongst the USA women's basketball team waiting for the same flight. Believe me. I was a runt compared to them in every way. It felt pretty good!

Cindi

Height doesn't bother me.  At exactly 6 feet my height is about average for a trans woman, honestly.  It's frame size.

[lemons]

This may not sound like the greatest advice, but the way you accept it, is to just stop caring. Look at things objectively. Does being too big in anyway stop you from doing the things you really want to do with your life? Does it bother other people nearly as much as it bothers you? Based on what I have told you, and what everyone else here has said, do you really believe it's the reason you were having difficulty passing? If none of those things are true, then just accept that even though it might bother you to think about it, in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter, and there's no reason it has to be something that stops you from being happy.

Yeah it kinda does.  Just simple things like being able to walk down the street in my clothes and buy groceries or whatever should be a non issue but it is....it's frustrating.  If my life could return to being mundane like that but just being seen as a woman where I go, I'd be ecstatic.  My life would have meaning again.  Without it I'm stuck as a guy and I feel trapped everywhere I go, self conscious, and wrong.

[StartingOver]

First, I think non-passing trans women can be really beautiful anyway. Also there's a vulnerability to being this way that a cis woman wouldn't have. With a bit of confidence, it's really kind of charming. So, even if I can't ever pass, I'll be happy to get to that point.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And lemons, I know this doesn't help but your body looks great to me.  Well within normal cis dimensions from those photos.

[Miyuki]

Yeah it kinda does.  Just simple things like being able to walk down the street in my clothes and buy groceries or whatever should be a non issue but it is....it's frustrating.  If my life could return to being mundane like that but just being seen as a woman where I go, I'd be ecstatic.  My life would have meaning again.  Without it I'm stuck as a guy and I feel trapped everywhere I go, self conscious, and wrong.

Okay, but again, looking at things objectively, what are other people doing to you that makes your life so difficult? Why would you give them the power to take the meaning away from your life in the first place? If just having difficulty passing takes away all the meaning or happiness in your life, maybe you are looking for those things in the wrong places? Maybe those are things that need to come from within yourself. Maybe you are only stuck as a guy because you believe you are, and not because anything about you is keeping you that way. You know, you don't need anyone else's approval to accept yourself as a girl, and you don't need to pass to be yourself.

[captains]

I hope this doesn't come across all dumb and terrible like "Hey babe, don't worry, I'll still objectify you. B)" -- bc that's really not how intend this. But lemons, I wanted to say that I've seen pictures of you a few times now (simply by virtue of occasionally perusing the MTF board) and I have always been struck by how beautiful you look. To my eyes, you're an attractive woman with a sweet face and a cute haircut. I'm sorry you have struggled so much, and that your size has been a hinderance for you. That really sucks.

I was wondering if some things may be a product of your environment, and if maybe you live in a conservative area with more rigid standards about traditional femininity? I know, again, that it's about size for you and that that often can't be captured well in pictures, but you look SO obviously female to me and SO much like many of my cis friends that I almost wonder if the problem is with other people and not you. If that makes sense.


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[iKate]

Yeah it kinda does.  Just simple things like being able to walk down the street in my clothes and buy groceries or whatever should be a non issue but it is....it's frustrating.  If my life could return to being mundane like that but just being seen as a woman where I go, I'd be ecstatic.  My life would have meaning again.  Without it I'm stuck as a guy and I feel trapped everywhere I go, self conscious, and wrong.

Do people actually clock you? Or are you simply self conscious?

[AbbyDS74]

Lemons, you look like a girl in a mirror, for realz. Had I seen these pics randomly somewhere else, I would have never known that you are trans.

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[iKate]

I was wondering if some things may be a product of your environment, and if maybe you live in a conservative area with more rigid standards about traditional femininity?

I have to address this - I live in a conservative, rural area and I work in a big city.

The women where I live aren't really decked out at all. You'll find higher standards of beauty in the city.

I get more attention in the city than in my home town. Almost no one pays attention to me in my home town but in the city people look and stare. They're probably clocking me or simply looking at a woman, I can't tell, but I can tell they have more eyes on me.

[lemons]

Do people actually clock you? Or are you simply self conscious?

I'm clocked about 90% of the time.  Maybe 70% at the very least.