Passing socially

[KathyLauren]

I read a lot about being able (or not) to 'pass' physically.  What about socially?

I have never fit in in male society, because I just dont.  That's one of the reasons I am here.  But, I have 60+ years of lack of experience in fitting in to female society.  All my cultural training has been male-oriented, albeit unsuccessfully.

Case in point: there is a weekly coffee gathering here.  The attendees are about 75% women, 25% or less men.  There is definite segregation at the table.  Since I am not 'out' yet, I tend to sit at the men's end, though lately, I have been sitting near the midle, and trying to monitor and participate in both sets of conversations.  And it's clear that I don't fit in any better at the women's end.

So, how have people managed with the social aspect of transition?

[mfox]

I just wanted to say thanks for bringing this up, but I don't have much to add.  It seems to be that the later someone transitions, the harder it is to de-program, cover up or somehow integrate the past into a new life.

How does a trans woman relate to other women when they are telling stories of their past that often includes abuse from men, romance and childbirth?  I wish I knew.

[Ms Grace]

Since we are generally socialised as male it can be a bit issue when transitioning - there's a lot of behaviour which we don't even realise is typically male but is pretty obviously so to most women. I had to go to an all male high school so I definitely missed out there. My first two years at university I was a real basket case when trying to mix socially with women in any way. But what you are also up against is the fact that, if you are seen as male (and since you are not out and you are still presenting as male) you will be seen and treated as one and women will generally respond differently to you than they would with a girl friend or other women, which in turn makes it difficult to learn how to engage. All I can say is that it can come with time. After my crazy first couple of years at university I was lucky to fall in with a group of friends that were all women. Then I was fortunate enough, over the years, to find myself in places of employment where there were mostly women and it made it possible to learn a lot about female interaction and socialisation. I was even referred to as an 'honorary woman' on a couple of occasions. I guess I am very good at mirroring, and since I wasn't trying to hit on them they felt relaxed enough around me and knew I "wasn't like a lot of other men". I think the real key is to listen, if a woman is talking don't interrupt, if she has a problem she is talking about don't try to solve it for her she just wants to talk, don't be afraid to talk about personal stuff... be warned though, the flip side is that this is usually a very quick trip to them thinking you are gay, because that seems to be the first conclusion everyone leaps to when a "man" is sensitive and engaged emotionally.

[Cindy]

I have to admit I socialised quite easily, but unexpectedly. But I was hopeless trying to socialise as a guy.

I'm empathic and sympathetic. I think a lot of women are. I'm sure guys are as well BTW but I couldn't relate.

[Mariah]

Grace really hit the point well and other than the basic mannerism differences is the fact that woman focus on listening and guys try to solve issues. I can remember when I was planning my and dealing with setting up flights for my trip, until I discovered i was going to bringing others with me, that my boyfriend felt content in solely trying to fix the issues I was having. Hugs
Mariah

[Qrachel]

They are both equally important for different but inter-related reasons.  You can be a doll or a hunk and screw up socially gender-wise and it's a train wreck because the visual queues were there, and that's the first thing we typically respond to.  If the socialization is off it's pretty shocking to have "almost" passed to the world you are presenting to, almost as if they were tricked or purposefully misled.  I rather be socially on and getting by physically than the other way around.

I found as I my social ease at being out and about increased with experience I had very little blow back during my "guy in a skirt phase."  As you can see I'm not that feme but somehow it works 99.9% of the time . . . and the voice (the d___ned voice), by the end of day I'm struggling to even say "Hi" femininely.  That's when my social skills (as a woman) really make a difference, and some of the most beautiful inter-personal exchanges with friends and strangers occur when I'm less than perfect.

Of course, what works for me isn't what everyone else should do.  I am very visible professionally and my business has me interfacing with senior executives, board members, politicians and their staffs almost everyday.  I also speak often to large groups and am recognized in my field in CA and somewhat nationally.  Being shy or hanging back because I'm not the picture perfect American elder-states woman doesn't work for my advocacy for children and families - I'm that trans-lady who seems to always be "on" and has something to say worth listening to.  That didn't come easily, but it did happen.

I do like to dress nicely and love makeup, etc. and believe on that front I'm mostly believable.  But 6'2", 200+lbs makes for an interesting life.  I love it and take what there is to be taken.

Luv ya,

Rachel

[QueenSwag]

Socially does present its own initial challenges, but nothing that can't be overcome. Sometimes its about finding the right group, too. Guys aren't friends with EVERY type of guy. It's naturally to be a bit shy though, so just keep at it. You are already part of the group at large already, so I'm sure in no time you will have thoroughly charmed everyone properly

For me I have always been more social with women. My best friends throughout school tended to be women. Just always felt very comfortable that way.