Transgender Americans Have Been Registering Their Transitions With Social Securi

[stephaniec]

Transgender Americans Have Been Registering Their Transitions With Social Security Since 1936

http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-law/data-on-transgender-americans

PS Magazine/y Francie Diep    10/05/2015

"Very few surveys ask people if they're transgender. One economist managed to mine American government data for clues to the transgender American experience over the last seven decades."

[Dena]

Once upon a time a Social Security number was intended ONLY for Social Security. You had no options to op out if you didn't want to be a part of the system. The Social Security number was not to be used for identification. It said that right on the card the government issued. Over time, all your financial became tied to this number that was not to be used for identification. Now we learn the government is mining our not to be used for identification number to determine our personal history. I am not happy.

[cindianna_jones]

While I resent the data mining, it was interesting to note that there were fewer than 22,000 who changed their legal gender. Wow. That is a staggering low number. Who wouldn't change their gender after changing their name with the SSA and everything else we go through? I'm having a hard time with this. There has to be more post-ops than this by now.

Cindi

[lisarenee]

Who wouldn't change their gender after changing their name with the SSA and everything else we go through? I'm having a hard time with this. There has to be more post-ops than this by now.

I don't know about the Post-Op count, but getting a doctor's letter is sometimes more difficult than a name change. I went Full-Time and changed my name before I started HRT. The former only required me to present female at work as I was already presenting female in my personal time. The latter required some paperwork and several hundred dollars. By comparison, the DMV/SSA letter requires a doctor's signature, which some may not want to give until you've been seeing them for a while.

[suzifrommd]

While I resent the data mining, it was interesting to note that there were fewer than 22,000 who changed their legal gender. Wow. That is a staggering low number. Who wouldn't change their gender after changing their name with the SSA and everything else we go through? I'm having a hard time with this. There has to be more post-ops than this by now.

Cindi

When I tried to get my gender changed in 2013 the supervisor there kept me for for 45 minutes while poring through regulations to try to figure out a way he didn't have to do it. He asked me invasive questions ("Did you have surgery?" "You can't ask me that, it's not a requirement." "I can ask you anything I want"), a patronizing attitude ("You need to calm down ma'am. Just calm down."), and cryptic statements ("You can't get your gender changed until your treatment is complete." "What do you mean by 'my treatment is complete'?", which he refused to answer). He ended up sending me home because my doctor's license number was not on the letter. Apparently there are two sets of rules, and the page at their website only contains one of them.

I couldn't get my doctor to write another letter with his medical license # on it, so I ended up waiting for a year until I had my surgery.

[Shana-chan]

I haven't read the article and only have read what's been posted here but, can anyone tell me how the Social Security finds out and registers your personal transition process thus outing you to them that you're trans?

[Michelle-G]

While I resent the data mining, it was interesting to note that there were fewer than 22,000 who changed their legal gender. Wow. That is a staggering low number. Who wouldn't change their gender after changing their name with the SSA and everything else we go through?

Well, there are reasons (none of which applied to me). When I changed my name and gender (pre-op), my attorney recommended that I change my name at SSA but not my gender. When I asked why, she said "Well, when you want to get married then you'll still be male on paper and you won't be denied, because it won't be a same-sex marriage."

I was taken aback by this, mainly because she automatically assumed I was a transbian and that I would naturally want to marry a woman. I wasn't offended by being labeled as lesbian, but I was offended that she saw this as a natural expression of my trans identity and didn't consider any other option.

But her point was valid. Same sex marriage was not the law of the land at the time, and I can see many instances where you could challenge and circumvent gender based laws to your advantage and in the process challenge the absurdity and injustice of those laws, by just omitting that little detail.

I think the data mining could be helpful for us. If it turns out that there are more trans people than we imagine then this could make us a more significant and powerful voice in the political landscape than we currently are.

When I tried to get my gender changed in 2013 the supervisor there kept me for for 45 minutes while poring through regulations to try to figure out a way he didn't have to do it.

Incredible. And shameful. I had no such issues in 2012, and I was pre-op. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to deal with that.

[LordKAT]

Changing at SS was actually pretty easy, although I did have to get them to look up their own rules first. Only took a letter from my doc and it had to have a few tid bits of specific info on it. That was before you didn't need surgery.

[Eva Marie]

When I tried to get my gender changed in 2013 the supervisor there kept me for for 45 minutes while poring through regulations to try to figure out a way he didn't have to do it. He asked me invasive questions ("Did you have surgery?" "You can't ask me that, it's not a requirement." "I can ask you anything I want"), a patronizing attitude ("You need to calm down ma'am. Just calm down."), and cryptic statements ("You can't get your gender changed until your treatment is complete." "What do you mean by 'my treatment is complete'?", which he refused to answer). He ended up sending me home because my doctor's license number was not on the letter. Apparently there are two sets of rules, and the page at their website only contains one of them.

I couldn't get my doctor to write another letter with his medical license # on it, so I ended up waiting for a year until I had my surgery.

That's awful Suzi - you should not have been subjected to that kind of treatment.

I think the treatment you'll get at the SSA office has a lot to do with the agent you get and in what state the SSA office is located in. I live in California and I changed my name and gender at a SSA office in a suburb of L.A. about a year ago. I was was in and out in about 30 minutes with no issues whatsoever.  I did make sure to bring all of the required documents.

A friend of mine who also lives in California had a similar experience with SSA recently.

Hopefully the experience will soon be a smooth one at all SSA offices.

[Joi]

I changed my name at SS the same day that I received my legal name change.  Smooth as silk.  It wasn't until about a month later that I  thought about changing my gender, but this had more to do due with my desire to change my gender on my "Medicare Card" card. (As it references gender.)  Thought that it would be easy as well.  Created an online SS account at SS using my new name.  It is at this site, that one can request a new (or replacement) Medicare Card.  Sent in the request.  A few weeks later I received a letter from Medicare addressed to my new name. Although, the letter was addressed to my new name, inside was a replacement card from Medicare using my old name with no change to the gender marker).  Have since learned that one has to go back to SS and submit a letter from your MD saying that you "have completed your transition to the female gender."  (This is the same letter that I sent to Dept. of State with my legal name change docs. with my request for name change). The Dept. of State is supposed to change the gender on my passport accordingly as well.  Still waiting for my new passport.  Expecting it anyday. When I get it I'm going to take both my passport and the letter from the MD to SS and get this accomplished? 

[iKate]

I am going on Tuesday. I will be a pain in the butt if I have to. I have dr's letter in hand with medical license number and DEA number.

My letter also says that I've had "all necessary medical and surgical procedures to fully transition from male to female." What are they going to do? A panty check? Please. "Have you had surgery?" Yes, I have. I aint lying!!! I even told the judge I had surgery when I changed my name. He never asked what kind of surgery... I just said I had surgery related to my transition. None of their business anyway. My gender is between my ears not my legs.

Someone here told me the letter has to be notarized. I don't think that is true. Must be just a requirement in her state (Oklahoma) because that's what their DMV requires.

BTW if they have to look in their manual, it is RM 10212.200 in POMS.

[Valwen]

I personally had no problems at all at the SS office in fact I was more concerned with how little the woman working there reacted to my information. I know I don't pass all that well, I wonder if they would have had more reservations about it all if they knew I had only been living as a woman for about 10-12 weeks at that point. But really I said I am here to change my name and gender and she reacted like I told her "here some junk mail arrived for you" just took my paperwork clicked away in silence as I sat there wondering what was happening then handed me everything back and told me I would get a new card in a week or two.

Oddly I seem to get similar reactions in lots of places friends, family, coworkers, random strangers. I mean I know its massachusetts and people are busy but I sorta expected some questions or comments. This treatment makes me mad...at myself for being so afraid of how people where going to react.

ok got off topic but ya Social security was a breeze the wait was the hardest part. Really I think when transisioning the waiting is the worst part over all, waiting for doctors, waiting for judges, waiting for hormones to do there thing, waiting for surgery dates. Lots of waiting.

Serena

[cindianna_jones]

If I ever got hassled like that in a government office, I'd just say: "You want me to pull down my pants? I'll show you right here and now." When I changed my SS number, I did take my letter from the surgeon and had no issues whatsoever.

Cindi

[Sydney_NYC]

I am going on Tuesday. I will be a pain in the butt if I have to. I have dr's letter in hand with medical license number and DEA number.

My letter also says that I've had "all necessary medical and surgical procedures to fully transition from male to female." What are they going to do? A panty check? Please. "Have you had surgery?" Yes, I have. I aint lying!!! I even told the judge I had surgery when I changed my name. He never asked what kind of surgery... I just said I had surgery related to my transition. None of their business anyway. My gender is between my ears not my legs.

Someone here told me the letter has to be notarized. I don't think that is true. Must be just a requirement in her state (Oklahoma) because that's what their DMV requires.

BTW if they have to look in their manual, it is RM 10212.200 in POMS.

My HRT doctor did notarize my letter but I don't remember anyone saying it was necessary.

[iKate]

My HRT doctor did notarize my letter but I don't remember anyone saying it was necessary.

Someone on FB said that it was. I texted you the details. I don't like publicly shaming people for an innocent mistake, but suffice to say she is wrong.

[Sydney_NYC]

Someone on FB said that it was. I texted you the details. I don't like publicly shaming people for an innocent mistake, but suffice to say she is wrong.

I was saying that in reference to when using my letter to change SS and Passport, I don't remember anyone saying anything about the notarization on my letter. Meaning I didn't get any indication that they were looking for the notarization on the letter. I do think some states require notarization for letter to change the gender marker on birth certificates. I believe New York State does,

[iKate]

I was saying that in reference to when using my letter to change SS and Passport, I don't remember anyone saying anything about the notarization on my letter. Meaning I didn't get any indication that they were looking for the notarization on the letter. I do think some states require notarization for letter to change the gender marker on birth certificates. I believe New York State does,

I believe that NJ doesn't require a notarized letter but requires surgery.

The state in question was Oklahoma which requires a notarized letter even for driver license gender change.

But in NJ notarization is not required for anything. Neither is it required federally.

[Jessie Ann]

I changed my name and gender with SS about a half hour after I got my name and gender change done in court. (There was a SS office across the street from the courthouse.)  All I needed was an original certified copy of the court order.  There was no need for the Doctors letter because I had the court order directing the gender change in addition to the name change.  I had already completed Form SS-5 when I walked into the SS office.

As iKate said, RM 10212.200 (effective 09/30/2013) covers the change of SS data other than a name change.  Acceptable proof (besides a 10 year passport, state issued amended birth certificate or court ordered gender change)  is a doctors letter (must be M.D. or D.O.) that contains all of the following information:
- Physician's full name
- Medical license number
- Issuing state of license
- Address and telephone number of physician
- Language that the applicant has had appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition
- Language that the physician has treated the applicant in relationship to transition or has reviewed the applicants medical history in relationship to gender change and the physician is in a doctor/patient relationship with the applicant
- A statement that say's "I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the foregoing is true and correct."  It does not require that the statement be notarized.

This directive specifically states that "Surgery is no longer required to change the sex field on the Numident."  Thus any questions about that issue are irrelevant and not necessary. 

Good luck to everyone doing this.

[cindianna_jones]

I changed my name and gender with SS about a half hour after I got my name and gender change done in court. (There was a SS office across the street from the courthouse.)  All I needed was an original certified copy of the court order.  There was no need for the Doctors letter because I had the court order directing the gender change in addition to the name change.  I had already completed Form SS-5 when I walked into the SS office.

This directive specifically states that "Surgery is no longer required to change the sex field on the Numident."  Thus any questions about that issue are irrelevant and not necessary. 

Good luck to everyone doing this.

I transitioned in 85 to 87. The legal requirements were much more stringent back then and if "it" was still there, the gender marker would not change. I am absolutely thrilled that it is now easier to get legal documentation changed now. There has been so much progress.

Cindi

[iKate]

I did mine today. Court order became effective on Sunday but yesterday was a holiday.

It was straightforward. I filled out the forms at home, printed it and carried it in.

I had my letter, court order and new photo ID with name and gender corrected.

Took a number and they called me to the window. I gave the guy the docs and said I need to update my name and gender. He took the docs in the back because he had to consult a supervisor I think. He came back and said all was well, he just needed to find out what the proper procedure was and make sure the letter was in the correct format.

He then did a whole bunch of stuff on the computer, printed out an order for a new card, had me verify the data. He took it back when I verified and gave me back my docs. He destroyed the old social security card.

I should have it in the mail soon and then I can update my name at payroll and the other places at work where I needed to wait until an official legal name change.

My letter was NOT notarized and it didn't have to be.