Survey for VFS patients: pitch gain versus voice break

[anjaq]

Hi everyone who had VFS (either with Dr Kim , Haben, Remarcle or anyone else).

I would like to find out if there is a correlation between the voice break and the pitch gain with voice surgery. Anyone interested in helping out (the result may help predict the pitch gain for future patients), can you please answer a few questions?:

1) what procedure did you have (glottoplasty, CTA, Laser, combinations of these)?
2) what was your average speaking pitch before surgery
3) what is your average speaking pitch after surgery (at least 4-8 weeks after surgery)
4) where was the voice break from chest/modal voice into head voice/falsetto before the surgery
5) where is the voice break from chest/modal voice into head voice/falsetto after the surgery
6) optional: What surgeon did your surgery and how long ago was it

It does not matter if you give the data in Hertz or in musical notations (as long as it is clear which musical notation is used).

Thanks a lot.
I am really curious about this!

My theory #1: having a voice with a higher voice break - a passagio that is in a higher pitch range - might allow more pitch gain from the glottoplasty. The reasoning is, that the voice break limits the upper end of the modal voice range which has to exist in a regular voice, even after glottoplasty - but since the surgery does not change the voice break, the pitch gain is limited by the voice break pitch range (plus a couple of notes below that to have a modal voice)

My theory #2: having CTA will change the voice break or even eliminate it, while glottoplasty keeps it at the same pitch range but maybe it becomes less pronounced.

Thanks for participating - please tell others who are less active in the forum because they are long done with voice surgery about the survery.

Greetings

[kwala]

Hi everyone who had VFS (either with Dr Kim , Haben, Remarcle or anyone else).

I would like to find out if there is a correlation between the voice break and the pitch gain with voice surgery. Anyone interested in helping out (the result may help predict the pitch gain for future patients), can you please answer a few questions?:

1) what procedure did you have (glottoplasty, CTA, Laser, combinations of these)?
2) what was your average speaking pitch before surgery
3) what is your average speaking pitch after surgery (at least 4-8 weeks after surgery)
4) where was the voice break from chest/modal voice into head voice/falsetto before the surgery
5) where is the voice break from chest/modal voice into head voice/falsetto after the surgery
6) optional: What surgeon did your surgery and how long ago was it

It does not matter if you give the data in Hertz or in musical notations (as long as it is clear which musical notation is used).

Thanks a lot.
I am really curious about this!

My theory #1: having a voice with a higher voice break - a passagio that is in a higher pitch range - might allow more pitch gain from the glottoplasty. The reasoning is, that the voice break limits the upper end of the modal voice range which has to exist in a regular voice, even after glottoplasty - but since the surgery does not change the voice break, the pitch gain is limited by the voice break pitch range (plus a couple of notes below that to have a modal voice)

My theory #2: having CTA will change the voice break or even eliminate it, while glottoplasty keeps it at the same pitch range but maybe it becomes less pronounced.

Thanks for participating - please tell others who are less active in the forum because they are long done with voice surgery about the survery.

Greetings

Interesting theories! I will definitely participate after my surgery in late October.

[iKate]

I need to figure out how to test for your break

[Dena]

I will provide the information when my voice is stable enough that I can work with it more but just a few minutes of work and my voice becomes restricted so I am pretty sure something isn't healed yet. One of your theories is out the window with me because my head voice couldn't do over about 190Hz before surgery and now the sweet spot for that voice is around 210Hz. The falsetto had a break between 230 and 250Hz and while my new voice is a bit rough in that area due to lack of control, that break seems to be gone in the head voice. I think the head voice was 130-190 Hz and after surgery the range seems to be 170 to almost 400 Hz but again, that is subject to change. Over all, I didn't expect anything like this to happen but my voice may have been abnormal as it was crushed into the lower end of the vocal range. Others with a more normal voice may conform more to your theory and I might be a fluke.

[Cadence Jean]

I wish I could help, but I have no clue how to test these things... Check out my surgery thread for what my voice sounds like when I try to talk from my chest and try to falsetto. The falsetto is ridiculously bad now. Lol

[Dena]

My voice has healed enough I can give you a really messed up data point. Before my surgery with Dr Haben for VFS only my voice looked like this.
Lowest usable note 80Hz, male speaking voice was above that maybe 90-100 Hz
Mouth voice 130-196Hz
Falsetto voice 155-237Hz
Whistler voice 250-490Hz
While my voice is still a bit shaky, my current ranges seems to be 150 Hz to over 500 Hz without a break in the mouth voice. I can move smoothly over 196 and the 237-250 range without hitting a wall. From my view at least, the range of a voice is greatly extended and breaks are not an issue.

[anjaq]

So do I get this right and your voice was breaking into head voice in the 155-196 Hz range before the surgery? that would be extremely low. I was told my voice break at about 200-250 Hz is already rather low.

[Dena]

So do I get this right and your voice was breaking into head voice in the 155-196 Hz range before the surgery? that would be extremely low. I was told my voice break at about 200-250 Hz is already rather low.

No, it caped out at 196 and it wasn't possible to hit anything higher without changing the way I used my voice and switching to the Falsetto. Even pushing it to 196 was a real strain. As I said before, I was standing in the wrong line when they were handing out voices. That's why I am so stunned by the change in my voice after surgery. I just expected a small amount of change and I have gone from 130-196 to 170 and over 500 Hz on the last check. It's a greatly different voice without breaks and far more range. I would expect that someone with a better starting voice may not see the changes I did but my breaks moved way off the scale.

[anjaq]

So you have no more voice breaks? thats neat!
Did you also get the CTA done with Dr Haben? I know you wrote it elsewhere, just for the record...

[Dena]

So you have no more voice breaks? thats neat!
Did you also get the CTA done with Dr Haben? I know you wrote it elsewhere, just for the record...

No CTA. I hoped for more of a singing voice as I didn't have one before due to range restrictions and the advantage of CTA seemed small. My adams apple had been taken care of about 35 years ago so I didn't see the need for the expense of cutting my neck again. Dr Haben didn't suggest it as an option, but had he given me a reason for doing it, I would have had the CTA. Also due to my age, the CTA might have presented surgical problems and that may be another reason Dr Haben didn't suggest it.

[anjaq]

Thats really interesting then, that your voice break has gone away just by glottoplasty. How would that happen?
Maybe you are more using a mixed voice now since the lower parts where your chest voice was are gone now? Basically your voice range now is in the area starting at what used to be falsetto before and now maybe became "mixed voice" which seems to be something like a mix between head voice and chest voice - basically like head voice (falsetto) but with much more resonance so it is not really that "head-y" at all but just a normal speaking voice?
Just guessing here

[Dena]

There is something else going on here I haven't figured out yet. Working with my larynx is far more effective than it was before. In the past I would pretty much lock in in position and work with it there. Now it has become a part of the pitch. When I am relaxed, the voice settles out around 190 Hz. If I pay attention and work the sweet spot it's around 210 Hz but the last week or two my voice seems to be changing and I am seeing an upward movement possibly due to some of the remaining swelling going down. I just hit over 600 Hz and the sweet spot seemed  to move up to 220 Hz. I would be very happy if my working voice settles down around 220 Hz but I still have a little soreness so my voice may still change a bit more.

If you saw my pictures, my vocal cords were pretty massive and I think the ties were 40% of the long one and 50% of the short one. That's pretty much the upper limit of VFS so we may be looking at extremes with my voice.