I wish I could find my way back

[Deborah]

I'm not really sure what anyone can say but this has been on my mind a lot lately.  I wish I could find the way back to God, but I don't know if that's possible anymore.  I used to be really close to him but it all went away.  I miss it.

Atheist. That probably is accurate for me right now.  It's not that I sought it but I just ended up here.

"Whatever you ask the Father in my name shall be given to you."  Doesn't it say exactly that.  So why wasn't it given.  Why wasn't there any answer at all.  For more than 40 years only silence.  FORTY YEARS.  And it wasn't like I was asking for something material; only asking to make it all go away, one way or the other, so that I could live at peace as the Church said.

But only silence.

I really did search hard too.  I searched everywhere, as a Mormon, as a fundamentalist, as a Seventh Day Adventist, as an Anglican, and finally as a Catholic.

Still, only silence.

Except from the Church.  No silence there.  "GOD DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES."

Maybe I just needed to learn more, dedicate myself to him and then he would listen.  I studied the bible.  I began studying for an MDiv degree.  I became an Anglican Subdeacon and served holy communion on Sundays.   I taught bible classes.  Surely now he would listen.

But only silence.

Maybe he doesn't exist or maybe he just hates me.  I'm not sure it makes a difference either way anymore.

Some say he doesn't care and I wasn't wrong to begin with, but . . .

If it really was that he just doesn't care then surely he wouldn't have told all the Church that I'm an abomination.  But maybe that's all they hear too . . . Total Silence.

I do miss him and if I could find a way to believe again I would, but I was defeated by his silence.


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[Kylie1]

Deborah,
I was raised Catholic and have thought some of those very things.  I asked God as a small child to help me.  There's something wrong with me.  Why would God do this to me?  Why does he want me to suffer?  I'd ask for help over and over with nothing but silence. 

The silence was filled with science.  The silence was filled with history of the earth and history of mankind and history of the development of all the divergent species on our beautiful planet.

If we go back millions of years and look at the Prokaryotes that existed then the eukaryotes and drift along for millions of years changing sex to and from male to female at will to propagate the species  until we finally see vertebrates who need to be assigned a sex.  Male or female.  The problem is all life forms came from the prokaryotes and eukaryotes, the same ones that can switch their sex as needed.  Once the assignment came that there had to be one or the other there was a problem..  That's what allows our minds to be one thing and our body be another.  In all species there are animals stuck in the middle.  The "church" through its expansive knowledge (that took place only in the last 2015 years out of 4.5 billion years) have taught us that as "gods creatures" we need to be a certain way.
The truth is.. and scientifically backed up is all vertebrate creatures are assigned a sex , they just may not match the gender, but overwhelmingly the masses will match and those that do can propagate the species.   That is why we have all the different nuances of sexuality and gender etc. 

As for God in all this...  Why would some omnipotent being care about any of these little details?   Why would that being like to torture people?  the answer is they wouldn't.  The interpretation of god has been the battle field for all of man kind for centuries, the way people have twisted the diverse beauty on this earth to fit into little categorizes is trite and frivolous at best.  Living in those confines is impossible if you don't fit into the categories that are assigned.  The fact is you are a beautiful human being living on a beautiful planet screaming through space captured by the gravitational force of the life giving sun.  The problem is the interpretation of god.  Not you.

sorry to go off on a giant rant.
xx

[luna nyan]

Deborah, I'm sorry you feel so lost and wistful, and there are a million trite cliche things that Chrisitans often say to people in your situation.

I've struggled with the very same questions and wishes you have.  There is no clear answer as far as I am concerned.  I've prayed for it to go away, and I've tried negotiation with God.

In the end, I've had to consider this like the thorn in Paul's side, something that keeps me grounded and humble.  I hate to think of how much of a smarmy self satisfied git I would be if I didn't have my gender issues.

I lean on Psalm 46:10 "Be still and know that I am God.  I will be exalted among the nations.  I will be exalted in the earth"

In Him is the power and security, and I trust that He will lead me safely through life, even though I may not hear Him clearly, I know that He is there - He did not abandon me before, He will not abandon me in the future.  Perhaps all too often we are listening for the wrong thing.

Regardless of where you end up, I wish you joy and peace.

Luna

[Jacqueline]

Deborah,

I can't really give that to you as you know but sympathize with the desire. I have traveled my life with similar experiences. Not sure if we are the same in that I am a very late arrival at the trans party. I only realized or admitted to myself last winter/spring. I did study variations and other beliefs but never left the church I grew up in(Presbyterian-Northern USA). That denomination is fairly liberal and conservative if that makes sense?

I was very strongly involved as a youth. I nearly went to seminary(I can preach a mean sermon). Luckily, I realized before going that it might not be a good fit. While I could do the research and interpret as well as argue a point I realized that I just didn't like people enough. That whole "ministering" part of being a minister? I could not really relate to most others(go figure-considering my recent self discoveries). But I always stayed connected from the sides.

I have had decades of self loathing and was positive that something was wrong with me. I too kept praying and looking for answers. I felt there had to be a way to stop these perverse compulsions. I too was not really corrected or told in neon lights that I should stop dressing or wanting to be like a girl. Around this time I was interested in the fictional character of the Vampire Lestat (by Anne Rice). He and Louis fully knew that their acts were against what they understood of God's law. Lestat kept waiting for God to strike him down for all the atrocities he commits. He even makes his acts worse. I wondered at the time if that is what I should be doing but had no heart to.(sorry, that paragraph is so rambling).

Lately, I have been more of the fake it till you make version. I have three teen daughters, my wife and I, have tried to bring up in the church. I am trying to lead by example. However, like you , I have asked many questions and reached out to God but never really heard or felt an answer. Every so often a series of positive or negative events might lead me to believe a question prayed about was being guided(I'm sure it could be argued as coincidence).

The idea of Doubting Thomas often comes to mind to me (blessed be those who do not see and yet believe still). I keep hoping that this is the area where I need to keep focusing.

A while ago, I ran across the thought that we don't and can't understand God. Simple enough idea but put into very clever lyrics that resonated with me by the "Crash Test Dummies" in the song "God Shuffled His Feet".

I do have my doubts. Maybe at this point my belief is just a habit. My dad is a retired science teacher. I understand science and history yet can't seem to shake some sort of belief. Maybe I am more agnostic but much of the Bible and other holy books resonate as well. Perhaps I am too frightened to take a jump away from all this and you are the braver.

I have been working with the thought that people are correct, God does not make mistakes. But people do. Yes the Bible is inspired by and to spread God's message. However, it was written by humans. Humans and their committees that decide what books go in or are left out the Bible are not perfect. What if we are made the way we are supposed to be not as a lesson to see how much we can take and still believe(only supposed to happen once, unless God made another agreement like the one affecting Job). Maybe we are supposed to be a lesson to others about tolerance. It also makes me wonder about the nature of God.  If we are made in God's image, there is always the question of male, female(can we add other?).

I can't seem to settle this myself. I hope I don't come across as a know it all or trying to tell you what to do. I am just making most of my life up as I go along. I too hope to reach a stronger belief that I once had.

I hope you can come to peace and find some part of what you are looking for.

With warmth,

Joanna

[Laura_7]

"GOD DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES."

Things like this happen. There are all kinds of birth defect.
Being transgender is more and more understood as having biological connections, to do with development before birth, through various transmitter substances.
People are called to help in love then.

"Every so often a series of positive or negative events might lead me to believe a question prayed about was being guided(I'm sure it could be argued as coincidence)."
But this is how this universe works.
You think about something... something happens, a door opens... and if you follow, further doors are shown...

A secret on this planet is that every person has a connection to god/goddess/all that is.
If you are still, maybe in a quiet place, or in nature, you can feel it.

There are no middle men necessary. In fact its a huge possibility to manipulate.
People should love each other and live in harmony.
Instead they are told to fear and follow rules made by people who were never elected.
Well more and more people see through it...

There are old stories that might be used as guidelines.
But only as far as they make sense. If thought about, some contain valuable lessons. But others don't.
It can be discerned with feeling imo.

And guiding people should act as mentors. Helping uncover what a person feels, and help finding their own solution.
Not telling them what to do.

[Deborah]

Your responses have been very helpful. I realized today that this was really a festering sore on my soul and your responses enabled me to begin getting past that.  It helped me remember some things and reignited the old spark to seek something higher whether it exists or not.  I just have been looking on the wrong path.  What you all helped me remember were certain things that always made me believe there is more to it than just wishful thinking.  Things transcendent to all this physical gender stuff.  Transcendent even to all the "revealed" religions.  Somewhere along the line I lost that focus.  Writing about it is cathartic so it will be continued.  Hopefully I won't convince you along the way that I'm a total fruitcake.  And maybe someone can help me on to the right path.


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[Laura_7]

Your responses have been very helpful. I realized today that this was really a festering sore on my soul and your responses enabled me to begin getting past that.  It helped me remember some things and reignited the old spark to seek something higher whether it exists or not.  I just have been looking on the wrong path.  What you all helped me remember were certain things that always made me believe there is more to it than just wishful thinking.  Things transcendent to all this physical gender stuff.  Transcendent even to all the "revealed" religions.  Somewhere along the line I lost that focus.  Writing about it is cathartic so it will be continued.  Hopefully I won't convince you along the way that I'm a total fruitcake.  And maybe someone can help me on to the right path.


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Its completely ok to temporary feel puzzled.

I'd say try to concentrate on within... on emotions of love and peace... and go from there.
You might try daily like a small ceremony... making some tea, coming to rest...
animals can also help for example... they can be a wonderful source of unconditional love.

Then trying to go from there... what feels right...
there might be hints... like looking at a book, reading a chapter that feels like it was made for you...
hearing a conversation feeling like its meant for you...
etc...

have an intention... what you would like... and see and feel what happens...

and try to listen to inner voices you feel are helpful...


*hugs*

[cheryl reeves]

I wasn't going to respond on this,if I sound offensive please forgive me.the answer is not in Christianity period,I'm a ordained rabbi and a preacher,I don't do sermons but actually teach the bible,it's up too the person I'm teaching too go and see if I'm wrong.the bible was written by Israelites too Israelites,to understand one has too study and study it in the historical context it is written in.I tell my students too read Deuteronomy and then read it from the Hebrew perspective it is written in,for once you do you then realize it's a family book that Rome took and made a religon out of it.It's like taking Alex Haley's book of roots and making a religion out of it. The part about crossdressing in Leviticus had too do with women dressing as warriors and the men taking the female role and raising the children and taking care of the house,like a lot of Amazonian tribes did,we are not too be like that,but in our society it's becoming that way.so if you want too find the God of the bible,you first have too find him like the Hebrews did,and the bible is full of clues to who he is.if you have any questions feel free too ask.

[Laura_7]

I wasn't going to respond on this,if I sound offensive please forgive me.the answer is not in Christianity period,I'm a ordained rabbi and a preacher,I don't do sermons but actually teach the bible,it's up too the person I'm teaching too go and see if I'm wrong.the bible was written by Israelites too Israelites,to understand one has too study and study it in the historical context it is written in.I tell my students too read Deuteronomy and then read it from the Hebrew perspective it is written in,for once you do you then realize it's a family book that Rome took and made a religon out of it.It's like taking Alex Haley's book of roots and making a religion out of it. The part about crossdressing in Leviticus had too do with women dressing as warriors and the men taking the female role and raising the children and taking care of the house,like a lot of Amazonian tribes did,we are not too be like that,but in our society it's becoming that way.so if you want too find the God of the bible,you first have too find him like the Hebrews did,and the bible is full of clues to who he is.if you have any questions feel free too ask.

Well imo everyone has a connection to god/goddess/all that is.

There are some good stories or materials that can help guide.

Its also a highly individual aspect.
Someone compared it to living in a certain part of a city. There are many quarters... or religions... but they are all part of one.

There are many people who want to guide. But there are also many who mislead.
Imo the decisive voice or feeling has to come from within.


*hugs*

[JLT1]

Hi Deborah,

I can relate to so much that you have said.  I remember my own questions that lasted for more than 30 years.  From faith and loss, then to church, to a different church to yet another church and another and another...I felt lost and terribly puzzled.  I knew God was there but I also knew that He wasn't. He was a far off watcher whose anger hurt if I got to close. My church experience ended for some time when I was asked not to talk to anyone at church because of what I did for a living and to not be a full member.  My terrible sin at the last church?  I'm a scientist – PhD's in chemistry/molecular toxicology.  They presumed that I could not believe in God, that I had to believe in evolution and that I would poison the congregation.  I was not so far gone to realize that they were presumptuous and distorted the bible to fit their own preconceived notions. 

In those years of struggle, I also heard all about homosexuals being bad and that transgendered individuals were worse, deserving of a special place in Hell. They were dangerous, sinful people controlled by twisted lust. All the while I was hearing, I was enduring a struggle of my own with what I really am.  "God doesn't make mistakes." was they cry.  Then I looked around the world and realized that while not a mistake, there are definitely things wrong in this world.  I prayed and prayed and waited and listened.  I heard nothing that I could understand and in not understanding, presumed there was no response.

I could have transitioned in 2001.  I knew what I was, what I felt and what I wanted.  Looking back, it was my own shame and not God's doing.  I was trying to do what I thought God wanted rather than really listening to what He wanted.  I wanted my answer – which was to stay male rather than listen to God's answer, which was to become the woman I really am.  In 2012, He forced the issue and I started to transition.

In struggling with transition and medical issues, I started a daily time to speak with and to listen to God.  I knew I could talk but talking from the heart?  That's hard.  I'd been lying to everyone and even myself about what I was for so long, I didn't know what truth was.  Then there was listening...listening is a skill and listening to someone who doesn't talk in the normal way is even harder.  I read "A Slice of Infinity" each day over lunch and pray about the one or two verses that it addresses.  In time, as I prayed from the heart, I learned to listen to my soul and then to hear the faint desire/voice of the God who made me.

As a scientist, I theorize that transgendered individuals suffer from some sort of birth defect or defects.  I don't think most doctors order medical tests necessary to determine a cause of "transgenderism" but they instead focus on a treatment.  For many, the answer is for us to see a psychologist.  For some, it is pills and misdiagnosis of a myriad of mental (or even physical) conditions.  For the religious, it is prayer.  In reality, effective treatment is for us to be simply what we are, even if being what we are is uncomfortable for some.  As a Christian, I believe that any time a person overcomes an obstacle and becomes what God made them to be, God rejoices with them. 
   
I was lucky, about a year after I started transition, I found my cause.  About six months ago, my psychologist pointed out that had I not been the way I was, I probably wouldn't have survived my childhood.  And while transition is terrible difficult, it teaches an appreciation for life.  And when done well, can draw a person closer to God through Christ.

The bible says that there will be a time when all shall be seen for what they are.  I, Jennifer, will be there, a daughter in the faith. 

In Christ,

Jennifer

[michelle]

I have often thought that it is more important for God to believe in me than for me to believe in God.   And since my Faith teaches that God is Unknowable,  then most of what I believe about got is probably my own personal fantasy.     First God was never in my home growing up.   My father was on the outs with Catholicism and my mother's family was Lutheran, but there was too much of an air of self-righteousness for her.  So it was kind of my idea to go to church.  I was baptised and Episcopalian but never went to church there. 

I went to Southern Baptist church summer schools and in preteen years wound up in the First Methodist Church,  the Congregational Church when I moved, and when I moved again it was the Baptist Church, and finally to the end of my Christian days I was a member of the Congregational Church.   My personal religious views were to the left of a Reformed Jew.   I unofficially was a Buddhist, and finally a Baha'i which I am today.

I cannot say that I have ever heard God speak to me, but somehow in a twisted way God kept me from crashing and burning.    Alcohol made my family an emotional mess, so I was active in the Church and went to youth camps,  weekly youth group meetings, and church every  Sunday singing in the choir in my own tone deaf way.   

The Congregational youth programme in the early 1960s was very intellectual discussing many ethical issues stemming from the Second World War.   It was this way, in college but I became a youth group of one.

I learned to think thanks to a Congregational Minister and his son who were of the Henry David Thoreau New England version of Christianity.   God protected me by making me the one who was never in the right place to seriously get myself in trouble or become a part of the high school or college drinking scene.   

Being a transsexual woman mean that while I was attracted to women, I was extremely awkward around them completely out to sea when it came to courting them as one night stands or as partners. 

  I got into the hippy drug scene while in college but having no connections my drug usage was minimal and just occasional.   God was protecting me.   In this way, God protected me most of my life.

   In a depressed state, I graduated from college and managed to be classified as a conscientious objector with a call-up number of 46.  I worked as a physical therapy aid for two years.     I lived this life as a butch female.   As you see God kept me in a protective box and my life was survivable,  but while the woman I married was an acceptable spouse,  she had personality traits which would mean a divorce 32 years in the future.   She was not the spouse that would be a spiritual partner that I felt that I needed.   So I got good kids and grandkids and the freedom to become Michelle.   

I was involved in organized religion as a shelter and a place to hide from the emotional storms around me.   When I became Michelle, I kept my Faith, but was not active with any institutional Faith activities.   My Faith became personal.  Now not having a car and finding transportation difficult at night this  makes it harder for me to go to meetings.   

I sort of look at the Spiritual Writings of the Faith as lighthouses to lead me in the direction of the Unknowable God.  So I don't know what it means to go back to God.   When I get tired of looking into the darkness I turn to the Light.   In my Faith, there are no priests or ministers and each of us is responsible for our own spirituality and for coming to terms with the Spiritual Laws.  Personally, speaking, and it is not an official point of view of my Faith,  I feel that I have to integrated all of God's Spiritual Laws and not just focus on the ones that I am having problems with.   I follow the Spiritual Laws because I love God and not out of fear of judgment.   

I am sharing all of this just to point out that there is a multitude of ways to going about your spiritual journey to God and just don't put yourself in a box.    God may be acting in your life even when you don't notice that God is there.    Look at the problems you have escaped and not just at the troubles you have fallen into.     

[Deborah]

Hi Cheryl,  thanks for your comments and I'm not offended at all.  I understand your perspective.

Jennifer and Michelle, what you both wrote resonates with me.  It's good to know that along the way our spiritual journeys have had many similarities.

I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking the past couple of days.  I think what prompted this whole thing was that while I have felt alienated from God for the past two years I only tried on the atheist costume o short time ago.  I'm finding that particular set of clothes doesn't really fit too well.  I found myself denying a theistic vision of God which for me really boils down to what is defined in the early ecumenical councils, the creeds, and the orthodox theologies taught by many theologians throughout the millennia. (Problem #1).  At the same time I held on to a strong spiritual sense that I am unable to deny (Problem #2).

So how to reconcile all that?

I can't see myself going back to a simple Christian faith because I spent so much time and effort studying theology that I cannot simply read scripture through any other lens anymore.   I also can't see adopting some other traditional faith because all the ones I am familiar with and especially the ones where I live all suffer from the same problem.  They all claim some revealed truth to which I must subscribe.  I can't do that again because one thing in the bible that I really do believe is that we all see through the glass darkly.  I'm now immediately suspicious of anyone with the claim that they possess that one piece of glass that is clear.

I am beginning to see a way out of this conundrum, a new lens and a new approach.




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[Del]

Deborah,
To start with I am not transsexual. I do know how many feel although not to the extent they do. That of course would be lying.

As for making your way back to God I can only offer a few scriptures and explanations. You could accept or reject them and I would not be offended.

To start with, in 1 Corinthians 2: 7-14 we see that the word of God is spiritually discerned. If you notice the disciples who became apostles and those who followed all received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. They prayed and received it.

Now, Paul wrote the spirit of man only seeks the things of man and the Spirit of God the things of God. That is why so many people believe so many different things. The carnal mind is enmity with God, the heart of man is deceitfully wicked and the spirit of man lusteth unto envy. Those who seek the word of God or truth using those rather than the Holy Ghost often have problems. Remember, kiddo, how it says lean not to thine own understanding but in all your ways acknowledge him?

The only advice I could offer which is scripturally sound would be to pray for the baptism of the Holy Ghost without ceasing until you get it. Submit unto the will of God regardless of how it leads you. Trust the Lord with all your heart.

I just couldn't help but wonder when it was that you felt drawn away or losing your closeness to the Lord in respect to events in your life? Also, we must remember the Lord answers in is time and not ours. Remember the man who layed for over 40 years? Just one of many.

This is all I could offer to try and help. I hope I have not offended you. Have a blessed night young lady.

[stephaniec]

I understand  being lost. I've got lucky when I was 19.I want to say though that I'm presuming that those who have read my posts are aware the I'm a Jesus freak so that what I say as extremely biased. I went to catholic grade school, high school and 3 catholic Universities and a public University. I went through the hell we trans go through growing up with the bullies and the torment of being so very wrong. When I reached the age ot 19 the crap hit the fan and I won't go into it all, but the most important part was my baptism of the true spirit. I was born again. My birth would be considered heresy , apostasy, evil . a blight on God. a sickness. pure sin , etc. my rebirth came at the hands of the Hippie revolution. I was baptised in the Holy spirit of my beloved Lord through the use of LSD. I was a suicidal teen and a very depressed young adult. I basically flunked out of grade school and high school , but they just let me move through those years and I barely made it out of the educational system. when I was 18 I was one depressed little camper. I had lost my mother when I was 8. My father was very grief stricken and never remarried , but took care of me and my siblings. As I was saying when I was 19 I was in bad shape mentally besides everything else I was trans , but didn't understand it. The revolution started a few years before I was 19. I caught the tail end of it , but I sure did grab that tail. I turned into an LSD junky to escape the pain. My path to God is somewhat different than others ,but it saved my life and gave me my beloved Lord. I lived by a Catholic University and got a job by the campus at a hamburger joint. The campus has a pretty chapel by Lake Michigan. I had started doing drugs and walking the beach at night and encountering vision of God. Weed tends to do do funny things. One day I was on campus at the library, where I use to do weed and hang out, You could see the chapel from the library so I decided I'd go into the chapel after smoking out back. I got into the chapel and sat in a pew and got hit in the head by the love of my Lord. It turned into an everyday thing. I grew my hair bcame a Hippie move to LSD  and continued praying to my beloved Lord in the chapel on LSD. Most Christians would call this sin so I guess I'm a Jesus freak from hell who is destined to return to hell when my time is up. This event I consider my birth , my baptism of the spirit. It's been 45 ears since this happened and my love for my Lord only gets stronger each second of my life. I was lucky to have God come into my heart. People say their prayers go unanswered, But my beloved Lord has given me the strength for the past 45 years. My life has not been really anything. I truly have nothing and I've never had more than food and shelter , but the thing I cherish above all is Gods love. God showed me  Love all those years back and has never taken it away from me. I'm a blasphemous child who Loves my Lord more than life. I just wanted to say that Gods love is real at least to me.

[rochyrob]

Hi, I'm a life long catholic. I can't pretend to know as much about the bible as you all and I never studied religion after making my confirmation. (other than mass on Sundays) I really can't pretend to understand some of the jargon used above. I'm an engineer, my dominant language seems to be math most of the time.

That being said. I agree with "God doesn't make mistakes." That means none of us are mistakes. If others view us that way it is them that has made the mistake by second-guessing one of God's creations.

I believe God has answered all of our prayers for help. We have wonderful websites like this one where we can communicate with others and share our feelings. We have therapists that are there to help us on our journey. We have science that has and is still discovering ways to alleviate our pain. We have celebrities that are personalizing the issues we face. Caitlyn, Jazz, Laverne. And, we have each other. These may not be the answers we are looking to find but these are the ones that are given. We really can't expect for him to wave his hand and make everything go away, or make other people poof and change their attitudes. I wish but that's just not realistic.

A joke my priest told when I was young that always stays in my mind. (shortened a bit)
A man was stranded on his roof during a flood. He prayed to God to be saved.
A fella in a boat came by to help. The man said no thanks. God will save me.
A helicopter came to help. The man said no thanks. God will save me.
The man drowned. He met God in heaven and asked, "Why didn't you save me?".
God said, "I sent you a boat and a helicopter. My help doesn't have to look like a miracle."

[2cherry]

A joke my priest told when I was young that always stays in my mind. (shortened a bit)
A man was stranded on his roof during a flood. He prayed to God to be saved.
A fella in a boat came by to help. The man said no thanks. God will save me.
A helicopter came to help. The man said no thanks. God will save me.
The man drowned. He met God in heaven and asked, "Why didn't you save me?".
God said, "I sent you a boat and a helicopter. My help doesn't have to look like a miracle."

That's great...

I think that there is this subtlety to all of it. If one asks why God hasn't answered my questions? well, maybe he already did. Maybe that's why God's silent. If not, were you specific enough? There is this thing about "faith"... some kind of trust, trusting that it will be okay and that you'll be provided for.

Then smart people say: what about the children in Africa? yes, what about them? Well, we're not here for a vacation... We are here only temporary, as this place isn't where we belong. Maybe the mercy of checking out quicker is something to pray for. Who knows what is good and evil? This Universe is dark because it is inverted light,  everything is inverted in this place, a place where good seems evil, and evil seems good. Browse around, anywhere, in reality and in virtual reality. Everything is turned upside down and inside out. Maybe this is hell, and maybe that's why God can't communicate with us. Who knows? maybe our freedom is escaping from this Hell by believing, by trusting and not to sin ever again... maybe Jesus descended into hell to save us. Fire and brimstone, kinda like our solar system: fire: sun, brimstone: earth.

[Del]

Deborah,
This caught my eye again tonight. It raised a few questions which I would like to ask.

To start, here you say you wish you could find your way back and that you miss the Lord. On other posts you have said that you answered and nobody was there. (If I recall right) That's an interesting way to see it from both ends so to speak.

Might I ask if this is because of your mood swinging back and forth? Since I am not transgender I don't know what all y'all go through. I would imagine your mood swings back and forth like all else from time to time. While a poor example, I guess like I do with cars. Do I restore it? Do I make a street rod? Then end up selling it.

I guess what I am asking is how deep is this desire? A passing thought? A shift in mood? Or a deep seated desire to get back to walking with the Lord on a daily basis?

I wish I was at liberty to share more but I can't about a certain person I know. This individual wrestled back and forth with transgender feelings for about 50 years before ever getting an answer. This individual has finally found peace and joy. I'm sure that not all will however.

I recall that in some cases people lay for over 40 years awaiting an answer. You know scripture as well as I so remember how it says in Ecclesiastes there is a time for all things done under the sun? The Lord's timing seems to fit his schedule and not ours. I guess this person I know just decided not to give up regardless of whether the answer came or not. Just keep the faith regardless.

As I look at the problems in my life (probably small by comparison) I find that regardless of whether I get an answer or not I have to hang on in faith. After all, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We know this means Jesus because as a Christian Christ is our hope and the evidence of the unseen God. Still in all, what a man sees why should he hope for it?

I have been tempted to give up many times in my areas of need but when I look at all the saints went through in Hebrews 11 my problems are rather small. I have a home, food and clothing. That which I need. Maybe more than many others have. For this I am thankful.

I guess what I am saying is that if you have a deep seated desire to feel the presence of God in your life don't give up. Too many people fail to see every promise of God is conditional and in his time.

I hope that this came across right. It isn't meant to discourage, belittle or question your faith or lack of it. It is just some thoughts as I care.

Have a blessed day young lady.

Del

[Deborah]

Hi Del,  thanks for that nice reply. 

I'm not sure it was mood swings although my mood was certainly low when I walked away.  Also, while my being trans was certainly a factor, it wasn't the only thing.  There was also some political things totally unrelated to trans that happened at my church several years ago that left me feeling abandoned also.

So I'm going to tell you a few things to try and convey what was going on in my mind.

First though, about the presence of God.  There was a time when I believed I really felt it.  When I was going through a particularly hard Army course that was taxing me to my mental and physical limits, reading the Bible every night after everyone else was asleep gave me the strength to persevere.  I even believed I had heard God speak to me, with a voice in my head.  That actually brought me back after my first major crisis of faith brought on by an extreme depression (about being trans) that had led me to the brink of suicide.  I didn't actually make an attempt but I did get as far as rehearsing the actions to prepare myself.  There was a time when prayer was real and even seemed to be answered from time to time.  I felt like I was being protected by something outside myself.  Once while driving in a thick fog I was missed from being hit by a train by literally inches.  There are many other examples but this is what I missed when I originally wrote the OP and what I still miss.

But on to why that's all gone.  I didn't really lose my faith although I was in a dry spell not unlike the "Dark Night of the Soul."  What happened was I deliberately rejected it and walked away.  That was not an easy thing either.  It was a lengthy soul wrenching thing that kept me awake for many nights.  It ended with me telling God, "I reject you!"

So, why did I do it?  I became convinced that if God was in fact real he had already condemned me to hell.  So in the end there was nothing left to lose.  I could stay where I was not wanted or I could leave and find my own way.

The catalyst that brought me to the decision point was Leila Alcorn's suicide in late 2014.  I felt that and read in her words every spiteful thing the Church has done and continues to do in their words and actions towards us.  I felt the sadness and hopelessness that the Church engenders and felt a tinge of jealousy that she had the courage  I lacked to escape the this intractably hostile world brought about by the "Word of God".

I read blogs and forums where people feel free to say things they probably wouldn't actually say in public.  I see Christians praising God in one sentence and then calling us the nastiest things; perverts, child molesters, mentally ill, and other things that if I wrote here would get this post deleted.  Like many others I served 20 years honorably in the Army.  I had the opportunity once to save a village full of people at some risk to myself.  I did other good things too.  But to the Christian, all of that is cancelled out because my simple existence is a harbinger of the apocalypse.  That's what they say about us.

Now if it was simply their opinions then I wouldn't care so much.  But according to Christianity they are filled with and taught by the Spirit of God.  My own Church which claims to be God's direct conduit on earth calls us grave sin.  So what that means after peeling away all the flowery fluff they are always speaking is that my reality severs any connection I might have with God and guarantees an eternity of separation in hell.  I call this my reality because for a trans person this is reality.  It is not a desire or a fantasy or something dreamed up for sexual gratification.  It is simply our reality that we cannot escape.  I tried escape for many years and it is simply impossible.  Another lie of the Church.

And if this was just a small portion of the Church I could write their Holy Spirit claims off as mistaken.  But it's not.  It is the overwhelming vast majority worldwide that hold this position today and the nearly unanimous position of the universal Church throughout history up until less than one generation ago.  So like it or not, I accepted that this is Christianity and in it I am condemned to hell.

While I do very much miss what I thought I once had I don't see any way back.  I have tried and on those occasions where I have opened the door there is only darkness inside for me.  Perhaps my previous faith simply existed in a state of mental innocence.  That innocence was destroyed by a combination of study, trying and failing to find even the slightest hint of acceptance for us, and the Internet where the hearts of people are laid bare by their words.  So it kind of feels like the third chapter of Genesis where it says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

I'm not really an atheist though.  I said I thought God had spoken once and I still believe that.  It could have been my own mind but at the time it didn't seem like it was.  I'm just at the point where I see all the Abrahamic religions as anti-God.  So I have to find another way.

Sorry if I got off to rambling too much here but I wanted to give your post the attention I thought it merited because I really did appreciate your thoughts.


Sapere Aude

[Del]

Deborah,
Thank you for taking the time to answer. You are not rambling and I appreciate that. I hope you do not mind if I continue. I find some of the things you say intriguing.

To start, thank you for your years of service in the Army. You have done more than many who have cast stones at you. Many who may have done so in spiritual ignorance without knowing what they are doing. As well as those who just hate. I am personally grateful for all who served.

I would like to share some thought on some issues you touched on. Things many so called Christians don't know or may not even care to know. Things which can make them hurt others.

Yesterday I posted on Facebook that I am leaving. Not because of the unbelievers. Because of the so called Christians who pick and choose what portion of the word of God they want. I hope I can set this in order.

Before I start let me touch on what you said about having the Lord speak to you. I believe he did. I have had him speak to me so as you described it I knew that he most likely did. That means that he does know you which is a great starting place. It beats being one whom the Lord will say depart from me ye worker of iniquity, I never knew you.

Let me start with rejecting the Lord. Scripturally speaking many have rejected the Lord with their lips and not in their heart. Others have rejected the Lord in their heart while not doing so with their lips. While it is written from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks we should also know that when people are hurt or frustrated enough they may say something they do not mean in their heart. Like Moses smiting the stone twice and calling the children of Israel stiff necked rebels. We all have said some pretty bad things at one time or another. The Lord knows our heart.

Many Christians have rejected the Lord in their heart which can be seen by the way they speak or post. They can reject the truth while professing to be a Christian every step of the way. An example would be rejecting a scripture because it steps on their toes and yet proclaiming Christ. In such case that person has truly rejected the Lord even though they don't admit it. Those who speak from pain or frustration may have said the words yet not meant it in their heart. I tend to see that more with you.

When it comes to sin and abomination the things which hinder Christians most is knowledge of the word of God and lack of discernment. The biggest hindrance to faith is our own mind. Sort of as written, lean not unto thy own understanding. Paul bore witness in 1 Corinthians 2: 7-14 about the spirit of man seeking the things of man and the Spirit of God seeking the things of God. When we study our own mind can be our worst enemy. The word of God is spiritually discerned.

Naturally time and space does not allow going into depth with this but many who may call you an abomination are no better. Hence my reason for leaving Facebook. They are fast to acknowledge someone else's sin but justify their own. It is written about a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. We pray for a sin not unto death but not for a sin unto death. Those sins are sin (not unto death) and abomination. (sin unto death) Here's where many miss the boat so to speak.

We all have sin in our life we can cease. Cursing might be a simple example. We must remember the word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Therefor, if a Christian curses and repents and trys to stop it is just sin. Foregivable and one we can pray for. If a Christian says " I don't care what the word of God says" and continues to curse it is now an abomination. That is because of willing disobedience and rebellion (which is as witchcraft) and rejection both of the word of God and the Spirit of God which moved men to write that word.

The same holds true with transgender thoughts and urges. When a person has ththoughts and urges relating to being transgender they can pray about it or just not care what the word of God says. I won't go into the part where people say the word of God backs it as that does not apply to what you are saying and I don't want to risk saying anything that would hurt others or get the post shut down. So I avoid that issue.

Getting back to what I was saying, the individual can pray about it and it is sin. They can reject the word of God or not care what the Lord says and it is an abomination. Notice the same holds true for both transgender issues and cursing. Any sin for that matter. So who is worse? The person who prays about transgender issues or the person who curses and doesn't care what the Lord thinks? To sin in one area of the law is to sin in all. To seek the Lord in one area is to seek the Lord in all. To reject the word of God in one area is to reject the word of God in all. Therefore, you may have said "I reject you" to the Lord in frustration or anger and never really said it as far as he is concerned and you may have sinned without committing an abomination. Remember, it's the thoughts and intents of the heart.It's one thing to put on a dress for example from an urge you can't help and another to do so not caring what the word of God says. Totally different.

Before you give up on your faith totally I would hope that you would consider these things. You never know what the future holds for you if you hang on.

Every day I witnessed willing ignorance, picking and choosing scriptures and justifying sin and abomination from straight and cisgender people. These same people would cast stones at others not even realizing that they may be doing worse. Yet when you confront their sin of choice they were quick to justify it. Which, of course, makes it an abomination.

It's not in my place to judge you. Only the Lord can do that. Neither is it in my place to tell you how to live your life. That's up to you. I just hope that you don't give up on your faith too soon. And if you feel like you have strive to get it back. I do believe that the Lord spake unto you and if you do try to get your faith back he'll answer. Maybe not as you think. The hallway may still appear dark but it's the hope at the end of the hallway we need to seek. The end of our faith, the salvation of our soul as Peter said. I would rather strive to please the Lord battling with and praying about things in my life which go against the word of God than give up and assure my doom. And I have enough of my own kiddo. I have no room to judge.

I didn't mean to go on so long but your post and views touched me. The things I have been trying to explain are not easily explained in a short post. I can only hope that I was able to present them in a manner that makes sense and in a light many don't think about. Maybe if cisgender and straight people would consider some of these things they would quit doing what they do which goes against the word of God. Maybe they would quit throwing stones. Sadly, many straight and cisgender people do not even know about the difference between sin and abomination stemming from the heart. I guess the bride of Christ enjoys wearing her Husband's breastplate of judgment in a deeper spiritual sense while pointing out a MTF in a dress. Which are both the same.

As for me, I have stated before that I disagree with many things transgender people believe but then again I disagree with many things straight and cisgender people believe. But, that doesn't give me the right to accuse or judge or condemn. Each and every one of us have to answer for our own sins. I just hope you hang in there and don't give up. As long as you try to please the Lord there is hope. I would love to see you make it.

I hope this helps kiddo. You may be closer to the Lord than some who have hated you. Please don't give up.

Have a blessed day.

Del

[sophieschoice]

Hi Deborah.
I came across your post, and specifically registered to add and offer my support.

Church, is only an organisation sometimes the legal, political side of Christianity.
Try not to remain caught up in the legalisms of church.
What is more important, is not "church", but your own personal relationship with Jesus.
I understand that has somehow been lost, but not with God, He is still there/here and listening and communicating with you too.

For example through Del, and even through me dare I say it.
I have not read all the replies so I may in fact be repeating other comments, but I wanted to note these things down with a clear head so to speak.

I have been visiting this forum for a number of years, and never had a desire to register and post, but here I am specifically to communicate with you.
I could have prayed and said God help Deborah and left it at that, job done, no need to do anything else.
But wait, no.  Being a Christian, and a follower of Jesus means I must act and help too.

I am no spring chicken and have been on this earth some 58 years now, but in my relationship with Jesus, (one that began for me at 13 years old) I feel so blessed to be transgendered.
13, the age too that I discovered the word transvestite, ugh that is what I was, how disgusting is that!
The Bible seemed to contain words and phrases that made me feel awful too.

I am on a journey with God, no idea where it will lead, but I do know it is a journey.

What I would say at this point is don't punish yourself, I think those that say God does not make mistakes, are quite correct, you are not a mistake, and neither am I.
Being transgender too is only a part of who we are. We make so many "mistakes" in our humanness, that to take every phrase and church view as literal means we are all condemned, so what is the point.
But that is not the case and Easter releases us from the burden that we can carry if we chose to keep hold of it.

You comment on perhaps not being able to go back to simple Christian faith, because you have become more "worldly" is interesting.
The knowledge you have gained over the years seems to have moved you away from keeping it simple rather than perhaps what you hoped for.

In my lifetime I have been very involved in "churchy" things. Taken services, Sunday school teacher, bible classes and this list could go on, but my faith, if you will, seems to have remained child like, perhaps naive but I believe that is how it should be between a father and his child. I will always be Gods child whatever my age and knowledge.

I have never heard (voice) God, and yet I hear Him all the time.  I don't always listen and say yes either, so I too am a long way from perfect, and yet he still loves me as he does you.

I am in danger of rambling here so I will pray for you and your journey and that you are able to open your heart and again and welcome in the Holy Spirit for guidance and continue with a personal spiritual journey with Jesus.

God Bless.