GCS outcomes for trans girls who did not have dysphoria pre-puberty?

[Carrie Liz]

Hi Carrie, perhaps another way of looking at this might help. What if you don't do it? How are you going to feel every day over the next 5 years, or 10, or 50+?

I'd guess probably not too great.

That's what's been pushing me. Not so much hope at what's in front, but knowing I can't live like I am right now. Chances are its the right thing to do, and if not, well I'm stuck no matter what I do so there's no point in worrying about it.

I feel decent, honestly. Genital dysphoria is just a minor nagging distraction that's always there in the background but I'm pretty good at ignoring and tolerating what I have most of the time by this point.

The biggest thing that makes genital dysphoria become an issue is anything sexual. I don't like things touching my anatomy. I don't like being forced to use that anatomy for release. I don't like the physical process that it takes to get that release. And even though the release itself is fantastic, I imagine that I would actually be able enjoy to enjoy the rest of the process too, along with non-sexual things like snuggling that often involve dysphoria-inducing genital contact, if I had girl parts, because that's what my mind is always wishing was there, and always seeing as "sexy" and "romantic" in my own mind.

If I don't get it, if I'm being honest, I'd survive just fine. It's just that I'd always be dealing with dysphoria in the background whenever I'm dressed, still feeling sexually hindered because I simply hate the way my current genitals function, plus dealing with the emotional weight of that ever-nagging question, "what if I'd gotten it? Would I be happier right now?" I'm turning 30 years old next week. I still have many many years of my prime left. So there's just a bunch of added pressure where I'm either wasting it right now by not getting the surgery and letting myself remain in a body that I'm merely tolerating, or would be wasting it later because surgery still didn't fix the sex-organ self-image problem I thought it would fix.

And to answer the year question... 5-10 years I don't know. I'd still probably be merely tolerating my body, and always asking myself "what if?" (I'd probably be REALLY frustrated if I had, say, a hard medical limit that forced me to wait that long in order to get it. And honestly, I think one of the things that made my dysphoria so much worse earlier in transition was that feeling of being trapped with my present genitals with no control over them. Knowing that SRS was obtainable but I was barred from having it because I needed to get past the financial hurdle and the 1-year RLE barrier first was soul-crushing for me. It's only since I actually crossed those barriers, and now there's nothing stopping me, that I'm doubting.) But I could definitely see myself making it begrudgingly, even though I'd be REALLY frustrated that I couldn't have it for that long. But 50 years, I would simply HAVE to have it done by that point. I'm going to get it in my lifetime. That much is completely not in question. I've wanted it for too long, and am too damned curious, to not ever do it. It's just a matter of when. I have 50+ years of life ahead of me. I'm still in the prime of my youth. I want to know EXACTLY what would make me happy, so that I can live those years to the fullest.

[Carrie Liz]

I was 34 when I had GRS and had only wanted it for a year, year and a half. I hope that knowing that helps a little, and I'm happy to answer any questions you my have about functionality, as well. (I didn't want to get into TMI if you weren't asking for that, but I lost my virginity at 19 and had a happy and fulfilling sex life with a penis for ~12 years [I got married at 22, so it was a frequent occurrence, too]. I may be as good a comparison as you'll find of someone who was able to enjoy things that way for years and then got a chance to enjoy sex with a vulva and vagina - which is even about 1000x better. )

Thank you. That is EXACTLY the kind of response I was hoping to see, and it definitely eases my mind. To see that info from a post-op person, one who recognizes the same things in regards to genital dysphoria that I'm typing, discovered their transness even later than I did, and yet the results were an emphatic yes, is fantastic to see.

[JessieBirdie]

I feel decent, honestly. Genital dysphoria is just a minor nagging distraction that's always there in the background but I'm pretty good at ignoring and tolerating what I have most of the time by this point.

The biggest thing that makes genital dysphoria become an issue is anything sexual. I don't like things touching my anatomy. I don't like being forced to use that anatomy for release. I don't like the physical process that it takes to get that release. And even though the release itself is fantastic, I imagine that I would actually be able enjoy to enjoy the rest of the process too, along with non-sexual things like snuggling that often involve dysphoria-inducing genital contact, if I had girl parts, because that's what my mind is always wishing was there, and always seeing as "sexy" and "romantic" in my own mind.

If I don't get it, if I'm being honest, I'd survive just fine. It's just that I'd always be dealing with dysphoria in the background whenever I'm dressed, still feeling sexually hindered because I simply hate the way my current genitals function, plus dealing with the emotional weight of that ever-nagging question, "what if I'd gotten it? Would I be happier right now?" I'm turning 30 years old next week. I still have many many years of my prime left. So there's just a bunch of added pressure where I'm either wasting it right now by not getting the surgery and letting myself remain in a body that I'm merely tolerating, or would be wasting it later because surgery still didn't fix the sex-organ self-image problem I thought it would fix.

Given my previous response, not that I really am I qualified to give a long term happiness review of my surgery as I haven't gotten there yet, but your second paragraph was also MY prime reason too after puberty, otherwise paragraph 1 was the other reason.  Only difference between you and me is that I knew paragraph 1 since early childhood...

Even if communities like this seem to romanticize it, honestly I think that does more harm than good.  I don't care what they tell you, for everyone, I'm positive that getting genital surgery is like getting on a rocket to begin a one-way trip to the Andromeda Galaxy.  We have a slight idea what is there in the Andromeda Galaxy, but as we're so far away, nothing definitive.  So, in the case of MTFs, you simply have to admit it, unless you have memories from in-utero before your genitals differentiated (and I don't know how you could), all you have ever really known is a penis and testicles between your legs and you can only estimate what it'll be like to have a vagina.  Do not deny it, doing otherwise is a delusion, accept it as a given in your decision-making, period.

Regarding paragraph 3: There is a difference between being happy with yourself and tolerating yourself.  You have to decide when and if the risk is worth the decision and if you are emotionally capable of shouldering any negative consequences.   FYI: It took me 7 years of transition to get here and honestly, I think the main and only difference between simple social transition and this is the absolute finality of it.  Social/hormonal transition is reversible/semi-reversible today, surgery is not.  Otherwise the purposes of such actions (transitions) are the same; to go from trying to tolerate life to actually living it!  So just ask yourself, are ready to leave earth (Penis-land) on a one-way trip to Andromeda (Vulva-land), which you can only really depict in your imagination (don't know much about) and own that decision for the rest of your life?

[Dodie]

Hi Carrie,
Muah!! love ya girl.
I am a typical trans girl.
I don't have much to add, just like the way your thinking things through..  I had really never thought of not doing it.. to the point when someone said are you sure you want to have a vagina I got upset.. like what the hell.. yes I do.
I have a friend who likes girls and has no plan to do it..
Me I am doing SRS soon..
Good luck on your decision..Its amazing how we have to dig so deep to find our answers sometimes but it sure is nice to know ones self...
Love
Keri

ps and KID... you have plenty of time to think on it....your just a child..!

[Ange]

Haha Jenna Marie, I function so much like you    I'm never 100% sure of anything, always doubting (in a rather positive way). It's good to learn to make decisions (especially hard ones) without certainty. That's a part of me I really like.

I match the profile of this post, except I'm not post-OP yet. Planned for april with Chett.
- I always played with both boys and girls toys (favorites were plushies... tons of them @_@ )
- I never thought about being a boy or girl before adolescence.
- Even now honnestly I'm rather tomboyish (and I like it )

We should really stop with this sexist way of considering transpeople. Women comes out in a lot of different shapes. Liking dolls doesn't make you a woman. It just makes you a person who likes dolls. I'm not into dresses, makeup, vanity fair - or in fact anything a woman is supposed to be into. I'm fine with wearing men jean and men sweater until the end of my life. That's who I am. Male, female ? That's nonsense. The guy I'm in love with (I'm bi) reads vanity fair. Who cares ?

That aside, I have the EXACT same doubts as you. As Jenna Marie said : I'm 27, and I started looking into transition at 17. It's been 10 years. Sure I might change in the future, we all do. But never taking decisions is just going to make your life a boring hell. It's been 10 years, we can assume it's a fairly strong sensation. Plus I don't know for you, but when I started HRT 5 monthes ago, it made me totally happy. I felt complete with HRT - so much complete SRS seems like a detail.

And I was always a sexually active, not-at-all awkward cis male. I liked my beard. I liked my face. (not nearly as much as I like it now though ) I liked doing love with my wife. I really liked the sensation of penetrating her. The feeling of melting our bodies, curves against curves. Though now that I think about it, I don't think I really need my penis to feel that way about her. In fact I think it would work just as good, maybe even better, with a full woman body.

Anyway I never had any problem with my penis, though I never liked it much either. I masturbated and it felt good. It's just my penis. It will be removed and that's frightening me, but well, it's not like I like it enough to cry over it. It gave me quite a lot of good feeling with women though. That's life. It would be easier if everything was bad in being a boy, but as a lesbian, I found having a penis was quite fun. I wouldn't mind being a woman with a penis and I'm not that dysphoric about it.

But if I calm down and sit, close my eyes, have a deep breath, and feel my body - the sensations, the pleasure of being myself in my home - I feel that part is out of place. It's not natural. And that's the main thing, I guess. I don't hate that part of myself, but it feels out of place and it most likely always will.

HRT was EXACTLY how I thought it would be. I thought I would feel happiness in my body and I felt it. It wasn't life changing in a common definition. But it made my body feel right. I think SRS will do the exact same. I wasn't wrong the first time, I don't think I'll be wrong the second time.

So that's how I made a fast and maybe a little hasty decision to book SRS with Chett only 4.5 monthes after the beginning of my HRT.

My 2 cents.    Hope it helps.

[anjaq]

I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.

With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.

I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon. 

[Serenation]

I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.

With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.

I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon.

Please tell me more about this "homologour"

[Carrie Liz]

I am a bit more "typical" but I think it is very common to have a strong increase in dysphoria when puberty hits. Especially body dysphoria basically is almost always coming on strong at that time for those it comes. Before puberty, the body of boys and girls is rather similar, so the dysphoria in that repect may only be centered around genitalia. One may feel a sense of not belonging to the boys, prefer girls as playmates or such - but that is all more or less the social component.

With puberty, sex differentation starts and feelings of wanting to have breasts, wider hips, a vulva and vagina emerge for those who have this teenage body dysphoria. It cannot really come earlier.

I definitely was also unsure about similar things - i had those phantom sensations you wrote about - and was unsure if it would really be as it felt in my head and mind. People kept telling me that transitioning is all about the social roles and being effeminate - but for me that was not it. I wanted my female body - breasts and vulva and vagina and all of that. And I must say I was not disappointed - my body felt so much more right with hormones doing their work and dysphoria changed slowly into temporary euphoria - and GRS really made my genitals feel the way I had it in my head before the surgery. It matches rather well to the phantom sensations. Sadly I did not have the modern surgery that is available with Suporn and some others, who use homologous materials for the reconstruction, but had the classical "penile inversion" method done to me, which kind of makes some aspects of my vulva feel like it is still missing. But its not like there is something wrong, its just some things are still missing because they put them in the wrong place or even cut them. So make sure you get a homologour reconstruction method done if you really want your sensation afterwards to match your phantom feelings perfectly.
But of course, if you are in doubt - better wait and ponder. I did the surgery back then when I was about 80-90% sure i wanted to take the risk. The remaining 20% were some doubt about if it would feel as I imagined or fear if they would botch me. But hey - considering how wrong it felt before the surgery, I was pretty sure it would come much closer to how it should feel - the risk of being botched was one I had to take, this should be much much less now anyways if one chooses the right surgeon.

Thank you so much!

Great to have that experience as reassurance, and also great to have some very strong confirmation on my decision to go with Chettawut for that exact reason... that I want the materials to be as homologous to a cis vulva as possible.

I actually had a dream not too long ago where I was scheduled with an American surgeon but backed out at the last possible second because what I really wanted was the non-inversion technique.




By the way, since I made my last post in this topic 2 weeks ago, I've gotten a lot more sure about it.

Basically, as a part of me doing CBT for anxiety, I decided that if I'm going to be afraid "maybe there's SOME way that I could use my present anatomy which would cause me less dysphoria and I wouldn't need SRS anymore," I decided to test that possibility rather than just let the anxious fears fester in my head. So I bought a personal massager, to attempt doing things in a more "female" way, and I was consistently having trouble making the damned thing work for me. And the more and more I tried and failed, the more and more I couldn't do things in that "female" way, the more frustrated I got. It was agonizing for me to be unable to experience what people with vulvas experience. And then I saw people who actually were post-op on here talking about how they finally had a "female" experience there, and it was amazing, full-body. And when I yet again couldn't make the stupid thing work, couldn't even come remotely close to feeling anything close to what my mind is always telling me would be "female," I actually broke down and started crying.

It became pretty clear to me how strongly I feel about this after that episode.

Having my first meeting with a trans-experienced psychologist to start the process of getting my letters helped also. He says that I'm a good candidate, and that my reasons for wanting it are consistent with what he's heard from his many other trans clients who've had it.

So yeah, I'm probably up to 90%ish now on being sure about it.

[warmbody28]

i know i was fine until about 6 weeks before SRS. thats when my GD kicked in

[anjaq]

Please tell me more about this "homologour"

Sorry - i meant homologous. Typo.

Basically it is what Suporn and some others do. They take the parts of the genitalia and put them in the place they should be . Every part of the male anatomy has a counterpart in the female anatomy and a proper reconstruction tries to place it all right. the old "penile Inversion" missed some parts and mainly focussed on the clitoris and outer labia, while it neglected the inner labia and other structures.

[Carrie Liz]

Okay, make that doubt number now rapidly dropping close to 0.

I just found this video on Youtube.

And, well, this girl just gave me EXACTLY what I was looking for by making this topic. She described EXACTLY every single thing that I've personally felt in my life.

She started wanting SRS at the exact same age, she had the exact same "tucking" impulses and jealousy of women in athletic competitions that were a huge thing for me back in high school, she was going through the exact same anxieties about whether it would really be everything she wanted it to be, afraid of loss of sensation or complications or of somehow being wrong, she just described every single one of my sexual issues, every single one of the feelings I have about my anatomy, every single fantasy I ever had that was genital-related, every single  reason I want SRS myself.




She had her SRS 7 months ago. She's still gushing about how happy she is, how it really does feel exactly how she wanted it to, how it really did heal a lot of the envies she had when around other girls at the beach and in summery revealing clothes, how she doesn't have to feel that soul-crushing feeling of want/trapped anymore, she can just have fun.

I don't really think I'm having doubts anymore. I couldn't have hoped to find someone who more closely matched my experience in terms of how I've always felt about myself and why I've always wanted SRS, as well as the anxieties I was feeling about it.

[jeni]

I'm late to the party, but glad to see you're finding your answer with more certainty.

I just wanted to add that I am much like you in terms of having trouble feeling sure about anything if any room for doubt exists or if the evidence is less than conclusive. Giving a hard answer, even to myself, when I have any possible reason to think I might be incorrect is not something I can do easily. (That didn't work out so well when a cop asked what I had in the trunk of a rental car at a traffic stop.... but how could I know what the previous renter might have hidden there?)

So there's no way I'll ever say with certainty that I won't regret surgery, even though strong genital dysphoria was the main sign of my being trans for most of my life. But I am not uncertain about whether I will have it. How do I reconcile this? I like to think about what my concerns are, not just whether i have them.

My worries are that I'll have complications, or that I'll be unhappy with the appearance, or that it will be painful, or that it will be a burden on my family, etc. Concern about losing the equipment I have now, or being unhappy with having a new set does not register.

There is no way I can be sure that I won't regret the decision after it's made. If something goes wrong, I very well may wish I had made decisions that did not lead to that outcome. It's still hard to weigh those concerns against the benefits if a good result is achieved, but it's less emotionally involved. You can look at complication rates and do quantitative comparisons to get a sense for how risky it is, which is harder to do with questions about body image.

[anjaq]

Well - yes, I think I went into the GRS with about 90% certainty that i will be ok. The remaining doubt was mostly about the surgery going wrong and a tiny bit still said that I can not really know if it will really be as I imagined it.

Well, it turned out that things did go bad, I had complications, and it took a long while to fix me - but I made it through and in the end it went well after all.

But I guess if you have the time and money, its good to make a wise and informed decision about the surgeon to minimize risk and maximize the chance for a great surgery outcome - there will always be a risk - but I guess thats something we have to take ...