Body or Clothes

[maybe_amanda]

Here is a key difference that I've noted about my situation and would like everyone's input.

I've read quite a bit here and other places and it seems that many focus on the clothes
and other modifiers of outward appearance. My focus, especially when I was young was the shape of my body
and face. How I dressed was secondary.

I never had the feeling of being a girl trapped inside a male body like many describe. I just wanted my body and face to match
what I felt like inside: feminine. I also never focused on my penis, it was overall. Maybe we are all saying the same thing but it seems to be somewhat different.

The clothes I wore was very secondary to me and even today I have no strong drive to dress in a feminine manner. If I had to make a
choice and were forced to wear male clothing, I would be ok with that if I had a feminine face and body.

Does any of this make sense?

[Jessie_Heart]

to me it sounds like you are saying that you are not hung up on any type of fashion I know plenty of women who are without our particular birth defect who do not care to wear very feminine clothing this does not in any way lessen them as women. the key question is do you feel as if you are truely a woman or do you just feel as if you would like to express femininity through a more classic idea of an attractive female body shape?

[Kate]

Yup, I can relate quite a bit. I never noticed the clothing, but even as a small child I was always *insanely* jealous of girl's faces. Bodies too, but not as much... I mean as a kid they're not all that different. Even when I started HRT, I just kept wishing there was this dial where I could allocate ALL of the feminizing effects to the face... and get back to the other stuff later. Still, probably part of that is that my body isn't all that masculine anyway, while I always thought my face was.

And the genitals didn't really bother me when I was young. I mean heck, I was a kid, I didn't know what girl's had, so what could I be jealous of? I DID and DO hate it when it gets aroused though (doesn't happen anymore, thank god). THAT made me horribly embarassed and made me feel disgusted and ugly.

I think the "girl trapped in a man's body" thing is mostly semantics. I THINK we all share a similar feeling, but just use different words to describe it. But I could be wrong

I never felt I deserved to claim to actually BE a girl. I mean hello, I had a male body and everyone told me I was a boy... so to claim to be a girl would have been delusional in my thinking. The idea of some "spirit inside" or whatever was too subtle for me at the time. I just knew I had to BE a girl somehow, some way.

And yes, it took me 41ish years to finally transition. The GID was *always* there, but for my first few decades, I didn't know I COULD transition. And for the next few, I didn't believe it would work for me - I figured I'd just be a feminized male, neither a man OR woman anymore to everyone. Apparently some will say I'm not a TS because I waited so long, but... whatever, lol. I don't care anymore what I "am," only that I've finally done what I had to do.

~Kate~

[maybe_amanda]

I guess that's where my problem lies and I don't know the answer. The drive or compulsion or whatever you want to
call it is that my body does not match what I feel inside. I've never thought I was a girl trapped inside as I've heard it put many
times.

I'm having trouble finding the right words to describe it, let me give you some examples.

If I stand in front of a mirror with my eyes closed and picture myself in my mind I see a very feminine girl. I opens my eyes and
what I see does not match. If I say something, my mind hears a feminine girl, what comes out is a mans voice.  My emotions, personality, the way I think all are very feminine and always have been but have been tempered because of the role I've been living in.

When I was younger I tried changing what I saw when I opened my eyes to match my mind through shaving body hair etc.

Is that the same thing as saying "I'm a girl trapped in a man's body?" Is that what you mean when you say that? Or am I just sipposed to know that I'm female.... god this is so confusing.

[Jessie_Heart]

I guess that's where my problem lies and I don't know the answer. The drive or compulsion or whatever you want to
call it is that my body does not match what I feel inside. I've never thought I was a girl trapped inside as I've heard it put many
times.

I'm having trouble finding the right words to describe it, let me give you some examples.

If I stand in front of a mirror with my eyes closed and picture myself in my mind I see a very feminine girl. I opens my eyes and
what I see does not match. If I say something, my mind hears a feminine girl, what comes out is a mans voice.  My emotions, personality, the way I think all are very feminine and always have been but have been tempered because of the role I've been living in.

When I was younger I tried changing what I saw when I opened my eyes to match my mind through shaving body hair etc.

Is that the same thing as saying "I'm a girl trapped in a man's body?" Is that what you mean when you say that? Or am I just sipposed to know that I'm female.... god this is so confusing.

actually what you are saying hits very close to home for me I knew something was not right my body was not formed right for me I think this is why I choose the phrase "birth defect" rather than "girl trapped in a man body" I know that my body is not formed the way it is supposed to be but I am physically aware that it is my body so I look at transisitioning as a way to fix a birth defect and correct that my body didn't correctly for me! I guess the wierd thing is that the way you and Kate is a better way to describe how I feel than I could have ever come up with on my own. Thanks!! but the one thing we do differ on is I love cloths but I was like that even when trying to force myself into a male role

Posted on: September 24, 2007, 02:21:10 PMsorry I ment to correct that my body didn't form right for me. and I meant the way you and Kate described. I really need to start proof reading my post better!

[maybe_amanda]

Kate: I had seen my sisters vagaga when I was young so I knew girls were missing something that I had, but it was never a focus. My penis did not for some reason hold the power of my femininity like it does for others.  I'm glad to hear that about the girl trapped in a mans body.

Are people that transition later considered less of a TS? or not TS at all?

I have to admit also for the doubters here that I also did not know you could transition. Yes I knew that people had
"sex change" operations back in the 70's. I thought (because of NO information) that all they did was make your genitals
look female. And that is what I thought up until about a year ago. You would have a mans body with a vagaga. I never even
thought to look into it, I guess I just accepted what I was.

I know this makes me sound very stupid but I did not even realize what I was feeling was even the same thing(and still not sure obviously) as TS. Since my penis was not a focus of my situation and thought GRS was simply removal I never even thought to find information on TS and GRS. I had no idea about hormones and things like that until a year ago. And I was jaw dropping amazed at what hormones alone could do. When I realized that hormones could do that then I began to realize that I could be TS.

The bottom line is that this has been a puzzle that I have slowly put together.

See ya,

maybe Amanda

[Kate]

Is that the same thing as saying "I'm a girl trapped in a man's body?" Is that what you mean when you say that? Or am I just sipposed to know that I'm female.... god this is so confusing.

I got really hung up on that when I first joined the forum. I've always known what I needed to do, but when I joined here I was suddenly hit with all these different and new ways of describing how I felt, AND everyone's explanations for WHY they felt that way.

After going NUTS trying to figure it all out, I decided it's something like this...

We're all born with this Gender Identity Disorder (GID) thing. Who knows why or what it literally is. But we know it's this condition where we feel a drive, a need to be living as the sex opposite of our birth. That's consistent.

But how each person decides to describe and explain it... varies greatly. You'll find people here *insisting* you can't be a TS unless you felt exactly as they did, explain things as they have, or justify a transition using the same rationale they used. But ya know, I always preach that what you NEED is far more important than what you ARE. You can chase these intellectual ghosts around forever, never knowing WHAT you are... and die unfulfilled, having never DONE what you needed to do to be happy.

Someone here once told me that when they told their therapist that they were a woman, their therapist simply said, "Prove it."

And ya know, that kinda woke me up. You don't need to "know" your truth, you need to LIVE it.

~Kate~

[Jessie_Heart]

has anyone ever asked born women how they knew for sure that they were women I mean like asking to describe what amkes them a woman without saying anything about thier physical Characteristics? that might be an interesting conversation!

Posted on: September 24, 2007, 02:44:47 PM"makes them a woman" I mean I swear I did proof read that one I am just having one of those days.

[maybe_amanda]

I'm about two posts behind.

That's been the hardest part, deciding what I feel now, what I felt then and then describing it all. The words are just not there.

And I guess the reason we all go thought this at first is that it comes done to "being right". This is not something you want
to be wrong about.

maybe Amanda




Posted on: September 24, 2007, 02:46:42 PMJessie. I've had those days before, it all looks great until you hit save 

That's a great question, how does a normal woman or man know that? Do they just feel that way? Or does their body
match what they feel?

[Jessie_Heart]

I just asked both my wife and a 20yr. old friend of mine to describe how they knew they were women but told them not to use any physical descriptions. they both said "I just know that I am a woman it's how I feel" then I asked if someone asked them to prove it who could not see them what they would say my wife said "I don't know" and my friend said " I would tell them that I have nothing to prove to them so they could f*** off" so now if someone asks me for proof I guess I will try to "pass" better and give them one of the answers that a born female would give them which answer depends on how nicely they ask...lol

[maybe_amanda]

"I just know"

That's no help, I need hard and fast rules!!! 

[Jessie_Heart]

"I just know"

That's no help, I need hard and fast rules!!! 

I understand that I am just trying to deminstrate that GG's have no better idea how to express how they know than most of us do. I am sure you will find the answers you are looking for!! I wish I could be of more help in your search!

[maybe_amanda]

Thanks Jessie, I know, I hope you know I was joking!

maybe Amanda

[Jessie_Heart]

Thanks Jessie, I know, I hope you know I was joking!

maybe Amanda

I didn't realize that I am in a strange mindset from some of the other topics I have been involved in or else I would have probably caught it!