PAI or Dr. Suporn?

[kaylau]

Hello everyone, this is a mtf from Hong Kong.

I know it is a quite an old question whether PAI (or its equivalent as Penile inversion with ssg) or Dr. Suporn (his well known non penile inversion) is better.

I am planning my surgery in Thailand and spotted of this two, well it is hard for me to choose, so may anyone give me some idea?

And the last thing is that, I have contacted PAI and they replied me swiftly, now I booked for a consultation soon. But for Dr. Suporn he simply didn't reply my email...may anyone knows other ways of contacting him?

Thank you so much for your help

[Laura_7]

You could have a look here and the links there:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,185600.msg1762841.html#msg1762841

Well concerning email you might send it again...
and you might check all your folders, maybe an answer was flagged as spam...


*hugs*

[kaylau]

Thanks Laura, I have just read the post, but it mainly focus on Dr. Chettawut...

I will try resending him, ths a lot =]

[AnonyMs]

Dr Suporn, or rather Sophie, always takes a while to reply to emails. Give it at least 3 days.

What's your criteria for choosing a surgeon? What do you care about and what don't you care about? How much research have you done already?

Personally I strongly favor Suporn and I've done a huge amount of research on him, but there's others here who are going to PAI. Warlocker maker lives in the region, has visited the various surgeons, and she's going to PAI. Its hard to argue with that.

Suporn's waiting list is close to a year, and he's the most expensive in Thailand.

http://www.supornclinic.com/clients/calendar.htm

On the other hand I believe PAI is a better hospital.

There's quiet a few really good pictures and video's of Suporn results on Internet (I don't mean on his website, those aren't as good). I've seen one in person, and its very good. I've not seen anything from PAI. Lots of people say results are good, but at least with Suporn you can see for yourself.

There's a rather bad Suporn result here

Suporn's FailureS ..... Who else?
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=98958.0

[Laura_7]

Thanks Laura, I have just read the post, but it mainly focus on Dr. Chettawut...

This might be a good comment:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,96561.msg706793.html#msg706793

[kaylau]

Very useful information thank you.

For me, cost is not really a matter as I have saved up to 8years of money.

The main concern to me is the recovery time and risk of complications, and if the genitalia is reasonably aesthetic is ok for me, I won't seek for a result that resembling a female genitalia, similar is ok for me. It is because it is still a fake one and I must come out to my sex partner that I am a transgender. Vaginal depth is another concern....

Pai has the recovery time and allow me to go back to work sooner. Although I am a civil servant, 3months of rest is guaranteed, I just don't want to burden my colleague by that.

And, waiting time for me is not a concern as long as I can get surgery by early 2017 is ok.

I am still choosing the surgeons, so May I know any girls going to pai could give me some information?

Thanks a lot for all your help, all the best.

Btw I am going to pai tomorrow, maybe I will get back to all of you later.

See you all

[warlockmaker]

Hi Kaylau, I will send you a pm. I choose Pai and will be having both my FFS and my SRS in Jan next year.

[Laura_7]

Very useful information thank you.

For me, cost is not really a matter as I have saved up to 8years of money.

The main concern to me is the recovery time and risk of complications, and if the genitalia is reasonably aesthetic is ok for me, I won't seek for a result that resembling a female genitalia, similar is ok for me. It is because it is still a fake one and I must come out to my sex partner that I am a transgender. Vaginal depth is another concern....

...

And, waiting time for me is not a concern as long as I can get surgery by early 2017 is ok.

...

See you all

Well you possibly might also consider Brassard... he has kind of streamlined his process, and there are recovery facilities included, so its kind of an all inclusive packet.

You might have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190515.msg1697107.html#msg1697107
for some info on aftercare...

It is because it is still a fake one

I would disagree very much.
Studies have shown with the hormonal influence of estrogen the tissue can turn into a mucosa.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,149304.msg1682002.html#msg1682002
The prostate is usually left in place so there is a g/pspot.
When looking at pictures of cis peoples vaginas there is a huge variance.
So a result can be well within that variance.


hugs

[kaylau]

Dear warlockmaker,

I received your message but I cant reply you. So strange I don't know why.
Maybe can we chat on email? Mine is kyulau@yahoo.com.hk. Hope you can see this...really sorry about that

Dear Laura, thank youso much that you have always been supportive and informative. I think I just can afford surgery in Thailand. As my financial was not as wealthy as you think. The living standard in HK I really high, very much pressure on it. Wanna migrate, just want to have a relax life but in HK, not easy....

[AnonyMs]

Hi Kaylau, you can't pm until you have 15  posts.

[warlockmaker]

My mistake, I should have noticed you do not have enough posts. I will e mail you.

[kaylau]

Well...

Thanks all, especially warlockmaker. All of you have helped me to choose the surgeon.

After final discussion with my boy friend, who is ftm, and finally decided PAI.

Here are the brief summaries:

1) Dr. Suporn: Non penile inversion technique (developed by him), No colonvaginalplasty, High Cost (about 550,000 THB, around 125,000HKD), Outlooks Natural, Very Painful Dilation, Long Hours of Surgery (6-9 Hours), Long Recovery Time (Seems 1 yr post op to have sex), 3 star hospital for surgery, no prior hair removal, Long queue for surgery (12 months).

2) PAI: Penile inversion plus Scrotal Skin Graft Technique, has colonvaginalplasty, lower cost (about 8,500 USD), Outlooks OK, Painful Dilation (Unavoidable to dilate a wound), Shorter Hours of Surgery (3-4 hours), Shorter Recovery Time (Seems 6 months post op to have sex), 5 star hospital for surgery, no prior hair removal, Short queue for surgery (around 2 months).

As vaginas of women varies a lot, and regarding to safety (hours of dilation + recovery time) and cost effectiveness, I have chosen PAI.

I have also considered Dr. Kamol and Dr. Chettawut, I think Dr. Kamol and PAI are almost the same. Dr. Chettawut is similar to Dr. Suporn, but surgery done is his clinic and a few bad comments in the past, but the cost is really affordable (80,000 to 100,000 HKD).

But every surgery, including Dr. Suporn, has their own risk, and faults are to made by every person and surgeons.

Anyone who detected any mistakes in my summary, please kindly inform me, or correct me by replying my post.

Thank you very much for all of your help. =]

[AnonyMs]

I don't think I've anything significant to add where you'd want to change you mind, but in the interests of accuracy:

I don't think its entirely correct to say dilation with Suporn is very painful. I've read accounts of people who say its not, as well as those who say it is. I'd guess it mainly depends on your body, and how much painkillers you're prepared to take. I've no idea, but I'd assume the same is true at PAI. I don't think 1 year to sex is correct either, as I've heard people doing it much earlier. There would be plenty of complaints if it were true.

However there's no doubt that recovery is more difficult than elsewhere; Suporn himself says its double. From what I know of his technique it would be "more" painful than penile inversion.

There are cases of hair remaining around the entrance to the vagina with Suporn. It supposed to be uncommon and easy to remove with electrolysis. I'd assume the same's true of PAI, but I don't know. I believe Suporn doesn't want you removing it within 1 year before SRS as it damages the skin and that can cause problems for the surgery.

I believe colon vaginoplasty is something you'd want to avoid it at all possible. Its only used these days to fix problems, and for the occasional person who insists on it.

Personally I prefer Suporn, but I think you've made the right choice with PAI given your criteria for judging. Congrats.

[Lyndsey]

I did a lot of research all over the world and I got on Doctor Marci Lee Bowers list a year and a half ago. I had my surgery on 10-20-2015 in Burlingame California with her and I'm very happy. She and her whole staff are wonderful and they get back to you right away. Also they will beat down your insurance company and give you a big discounted rate if you can get the insurance to pay. By the time you pay for the airfare and all the traveling expenses you are better off in the USA. Plus over there there is none else but you when you are discharged from the hospital and you are on your own. I have heard some horror stories about that and then you will also have a long travel back home and that won't be comfortable at all. Lots to think about. Dr Bowers also will give you her cell phone and you can text her or call her and she will get back to you very fast. To me this was worth a lot. I would never go to anyone else. I'm a very happy women. Do some research before you make your choice. But weigh out everything. You have my Blessing. [emoji173]️[emoji126][emoji4]


Lyndsey Marie Burke

[AnonyMs]

There's complaints about all surgeons, including Marcie Bowers (and my favorite Suporn). I've also read plenty of horror stories from US surgeons, and no legal action, which suggest its either not true or its that its very difficult to bring legal action in the USA - much like you'd expect it to be in Thailand.

One of the things I like about Thailand is that people seem to be more open to complaining about it, so I think that you do get to hear most of the bad things that happen there. I'm not sure that's so true in the USA, or Australia for that matter.

I'm a bit cynical so I see the Thai surgeons as having more incentive to take care of you. Its a poor country and they make a lot of money of foreign patients, and a large part is due to their reputation. A lot of people hesitate to go overseas and reputation is very important. Surgeons operating mainly in the own countries don't have nearly this incentive; they are going to get business not matter what.

I see a number of people on this site who's opinion I respect and I'm sure must have a very good idea of what they are doing all choosing different surgeons. It's quite a puzzle, and somewhat worrying as I disagree with all of them.

Unfortunately at the end of the day there's no solid data on any of the surgeons.

[warlockmaker]

Let be realistic. All the surgeons do a form of penile inversion with some variations for depth. Its NOT rocket science surgery, it been done so many times it vanilla.  In vanilla surgery the more you do it the better you are, so it comes down to personality and costs. The US surgeons and anesthetist charges are just CRAZY when compared to Thailand and yes, it much cheaper to pay for the air fares and hotel. The after care service is incredible and private nurses cost less than $100 per day. So who do you LIKE, is what it come down to. Of course you have to consider the inconvenience of travel but some may find that to be a bonus. I live in Hong Kong like Kay, and Thailand is a non brainer.

I can afford anyone anywhere, I have done my research and considered Marci Bowers. I was using their therapist Michelle Angelo for quite  some time and she was excellent. I chose PAI because they are good at it/ with just Preecha having done over 3,500 SRS and the father of modern SRS surgery. His SRS surgeon now is Sutin who has done hundreds. Practice makes perfect. Yes, there are mistakes, looking at the volume done in Thailand versus the USA I would say that there may be, percentage wise, more mistakes by USA surgeons. Choose who you feel comfortable with and as long as they have a track record they are s good as one another. They all have massive egos so don't offend the one you like with too many intrusive questions. I know from experience that they don't like to be challenged.

[kaylau]

Well thank you all very much.

I did like Suporn but PAI is not a bad choice, at least better than in HK.

Thank you for correcting me and I think I have some inaccuracy, but please forgive me.

I am contacting PAI for some clarification and I can confirm the booking. But still wait for some while to have surgery.

Well...US surgeon is really expensive to me, and a long haul flight is a problem.

Thailand is a good choice for those who are not really rich.

Have a nice day everyone =]