6 years into transition, finally considering FFS

[Lagertha]

He did however suggest a chin implant (or sliding geoplasty but he said most likely my chin is so recessed that there wasnt enough bone to work on....but xrays would tell for sure) and cheek implants.

I'm still saying no to the cheek and maybe slowly getting persuaded towards chin work. I realize I had a huge overbite as a kid and spent years in orthadontristry to fix it.....and definitely have a recessed chin (which has helped me greatly in transition/feminization) but of course I'm still worried about adding too much chin and/or making the recovery any tougher than it's already going to be.

Receding chin is not a feminine feature. Both men and women have recessed chins. I don't understand how would receding chin help you in transition.. Generally it's unnattractive feature, because it messes up facial balance, and in that sense make your face look less attractive than it would with normally projected chin, but it doesnt add anything to making face look more feminine. Male chin is ideally at 0° angle, and female at 2°. Shure it's better than having strong overprojected hypermasculine chin... but, you would be better off in terms of feminine look and easier transition with 2° angle chin than with recessed chin.


When you look in the mirror... do you like the change that smiling creates on your cheeks?

[Debra]

Shure it's better than having strong overprojected hypermasculine chin

^^ Yes. That. Because my chin is recessed it never got bigger and broader. That's all I'm saying. 

Thanks for your words about the balancing though....I'm hearing it a lot from the doctors so I'm starting to consider it.

When you look in the mirror... do you like the change that smiling creates on your cheeks?

Yeah my cheeks are fine and my smile is my greatest most feminine look.

[Lagertha]

If you like the "prominent cheek-bones look" that smiling creates when muscles raise cheeks up and push forward, but you miss the same effect when you don't smile, is the best way to tell if you would benefit from malar cheek-implants or not.

[Debra]

If you like the "prominent cheek-bones look" that smiling creates when muscles raise cheeks up and push forward, but you miss the same effect when you don't smile, is the best way to tell if you would benefit from malar cheek-implants or not.

Gotcha.

Well I scheduled xrays to be done at a local facility in Jan.....for Deschamps-Braly. Won't see him till June though.

[Debra]

Ok just had a skype consult with Spiegel from Boston.

It went rather well. He agreed that my brow ridge would need to be dealt with and that my nose could be both corrected and made smaller.

I asked about his methods for forehead reconstruction and he mentioned that simply 'burring' was not enough and that he did redefine the sinus wall completely to make it work.

He said he could add a slight brow lift but my brows look fine. He also said I wouldn't need a scalp advance (when other docs said I should at least consider it).

I asked about lip lift to show more vermillion and he agreed that would be helpful.

He also (as the other doctors suggested) suggested a chin implant to bring my recessed chin forward and he explained that doing so was feminizing because it makes someone's nose seem smaller. Interesting point.

What's everyone's opinions on chin implants vs sliding genioplasty? After reading Dr O's book, he kind of poopoos implants but at the same time a genioplasty can only do so much and my chin is pretty darn recessed.

[Debra]

Also, I went and had xrays done locally for Deschamps-Braly so that's progress. I still plan on visiting him in San Fran in June as my final consult. If I really don't like him for some reason then I could possibly go visit one of these other docs (most likely Spiegel) in person as well.

Starting to think I might go for this in Oct/Nov instead of waiting till 2017. I'll be able to save for it and borrow from my 401k as well.

[Paula1]

Hi Debra,

I think that I have asked you this before and forgive me if I have.

Are you willing to travel to South America or Europe for FFS?

In my opinion the surgeons there are equally as good if not better than some of the US surgeons and cheaper too because of their locations.

For example although not FFS, I am happy to travel to Korea for Voice Surgery with Dr Kim because by all accounts he is the best now. From the UK it's just as cheap to fly to Korea as it is to say the Mid-West.

Hugs

Paula

[deeiche]

thanks Paula

I was going to ask Debra the same question. 

Hi Debra,

I think that I have asked you this before and forgive me if I have.

Are you willing to travel to South America or Europe for FFS?

In my opinion the surgeons there are equally as good if not better than some of the US surgeons and cheaper too because of their locations.

For example although not FFS, I am happy to travel to Korea for Voice Surgery with Dr Kim because by all accounts he is the best now. From the UK it's just as cheap to fly to Korea as it is to say the Mid-West.

Hugs

Paula

[Debra]

No, not really willing to travel outside of the US. I have done all my surgeries here and I think there are good enough options here...even if I end up having to pay a whole lot more. That's ok with me.

That's why I've explored 6 different surgeons from around the US.

I realize FT is great and cheap but I don't want to leave the US. I'm just not comfortable with doing that. I've seen plenty of good results in the US (if done by the right surgeon).

Aside from that, is there anything else you all can comment on? I believe I asked a question even.

I've set my limits between these 6 surgeons (see original post) and I'd appreciate any help in determining which of those surgeons would be the best. I basically think Mayer is out because he doesn't do Type 3 but all the others do. Still waiting on an actual quote from Spiegel as of yet too.

[Paula1]

Hi Debra,

Sure I can understand your reasoning.

Likewise I now wish to stay in Europe after my poor experience in the USA and having to pay £10,000.00 in crossing the pond and other expenses for revisions umpteen times ... 

I have seen Dr O's girls and Dr DiMaggio girls while in the USA and they all looked good to me. Dr O's girls do tend to look similar but so do my surgeon's regrettably.

If money is no object and Dr O's successor is as good or even better than the grand master, if it was my choice I would go with Dr Deschamps-Braly.

But please don't blame me if you decide on him and you are not happy with the result ...

[Debra]

Hi Debra,

Sure I can understand your reasoning.

Likewise I now wish to stay in Europe after my poor experience in the USA and having to pay £10,000.00 in crossing the pond and other expenses for revisions umpteen times ... 

I have seen Dr O's girls and Dr DiMaggio girls while in the USA and they all looked good to me. Dr O's girls do tend to look similar but so do my surgeon's regrettably.

If money is no object and Dr O's successor is as good or even better than the grand master, if it was my choice I would go with Dr Deschamps-Braly.

But please don't blame me if you decide on him and you are not happy with the result ...

It's all your fault! LOL Just kidding. That is my current thinking. I will finally consult with him (in person) in June so we'll see. Unless I get a bad feeling about him or a better feeling from the other surgeons or something. Guess we'll see

[Lagertha]

What's everyone's opinions on chin implants vs sliding genioplasty? After reading Dr O's book, he kind of poopoos implants but at the same time a genioplasty can only do so much and my chin is pretty darn recessed.

I wanted improved chin projection, and I was given a choice to decide between implant or sliding genioplasty. I decided for less invasive implant... and I made a wrong decision. I looks OK, Im very happy with improved projection, but I dont like the feel of implant, as it doesnt feel natural to the touch. When I touch chin with fingers, I can easily feel the implant, and its edges. Which I dont like. I cant say how would sliding genioplasty feel, because as of not I still havent had implant removed and done sliding genioplasty instead. Maybe someday.
I was good canidate for both options. And there wouldnt be a difference in appearance. However some people and some chins, have either a shape which is more appropriate to correct with implant or sliding genioplasty. If your chin is severely recessed, it might not be possible to advance it enough with sliding genioplasty, and implant could give better result aesthically. Sliding genioplasty only advances lower part of chin, which might create strange looking profile above the advanced part of chin.
It is really a question for a surgeon who will be doing your FFS. Keep in mind the fact that some surgeons only do implants, because they arent trained (enough) in orthognatic and maxillofacial techniques. And there is Facial team who doesnt do chin implants, and will always suggest sliding genioplasty.

[Debra]

Thanks Lagertha. Good info and good point about some surgeons only doing one or the other.

I may wait on the chin altogether. Just do forehead nose and lip this time and in a couple years see how i feel about my chin.

[Debra]

Whatever happened to Lagertha?

[mmmmm]

She decided she had enough of this and deleted the account... and then saw that Kayxo, who was always extremely helpful for others, asked a question herself, and I kind of felt I need to answer one for her, to hopefully help her with her issue. And I prefered old previous mmmmm username I had last year... because it doesn't mean anything...

[Debra]

She decided she had enough of this and deleted the account... and then saw that Kayxo, who was always extremely helpful for others, asked a question herself, and I kind of felt I need to answer one for her, to hopefully help her with her issue. And I prefered old previous mmmmm username I had last year... because it doesn't mean anything...

sad to hear. she was always so helpful and educated on stuff

[mmmmm]

sad to hear. she was always so helpful and educated on stuff

Haha, you didn't understood me... It's me, I'm the same person.. I'll stay for a while, as long as I feel i can be helpful to someone, even if only in a small way, it makes it worth to stick around.

[Debra]

Haha, you didn't understood me... It's me, I'm the same person.. I'll stay for a while, as long as I feel i can be helpful to someone, even if only in a small way, it makes it worth to stick around.

Ohhh ok haha. good!

[Debra]

VFFS came back! I'm pretty excited/happy with the results. She essentially confirmed that Forehead reconstruction and rhinoplasty would be very good for feminizing my face.

She also had a lot of good advice about what she thought I did or didn't need on top of that. The chin/jaw recession came up but it's so far recessed that it may not be worth the drastic measures to fix....we'll see what Dr D-B says.

She said that I didn't need scalp advancement, brow lift, lip lift, or cheek implants despite some of the other docs' opinions so that was interesting.

All-in-all, pretty happy and glad I did VFFS. Still waiting till June to see Dr. D-B before making a final decision on surgeon and setting a date (hopefully for November).

[Paula1]

Good for you Debra.

Alexandra Hamer of VFFS is great ... 

I feel that everyone who is planning FFS should use her services.

If only my original surgeon had followed her advice on how my nose should look ...