iKate's FFS thread

[iKate]

Starting my own thread because I'm seriously considering FFS and didn't want to derail others. How much and what exactly is yet to be determined.

Stats and vital info:
Age:37
Height: 5'6"
Weight: 150lbs
Ethnicity: Asian Indian
HRT: ~1 year
Previous surgeries: VFS (Dr Kim/Yeson).

But this is what I'm working with.

Front pic taken at DMV, profile pics taken with iPhone front camera. I will have better pics with a DSLR probably later or tomorrow.

Frontal pic (driver license)



Profile 1:



Profile 2:



So I would probably need some brow work, orbital, rhinoplasty and chin work. Not exactly sure what yet though. I'm going to be consulting with surgeons very soon.

[BellaSwan]

Hi iKate!

I agree with your analysis, but I would add jaw and upper lip lift too. I know it sounds harsh, but I genuinely feel it's just the reality for most of us. Even those of us who pass before FFS. If that's out of your budget then prioritize forehead/nose and chin. Throw in the upper lip lift if it makes sense financially. But if you can afford "the works" I say go for it.

[iKate]

Hi iKate!

I agree with your analysis, but I would add jaw and upper lip lift too. I know it sounds harsh, but I genuinely feel it's just the reality for most of us. Even those of us who pass before FFS. If that's out of your budget then prioritize forehead/nose and chin. Throw in the upper lip lift if it makes sense financially. But if you can afford "the works" I say go for it.

It's not a matter of affording it, it's a matter of how much trauma I want to give to my face.

The question originally was, what do I do with the chin?

I think I pass, at least no one treats me like a trans woman (those that don't know), people have made comments about being on my period, or asking about my husband etc. But I don't know for sure. I feel FFS might help me more in the "for sure" department.

Regarding the lip lift, can you explain a bit more? What would they do?

I also don't want procedures that would shape my face like a caucasian or african-american person. I want to look like a girl of my ethnicity. I know one other Indian girl who is going for FFS at Facial Team (ssneha23) so I want to see her results and what they did for her. Especially if anyone else who is Indian can chime in, that would be great.

But honestly I want opinions from everyone because I also live and work in American society, so blending in is a matter of blending in here.

[iKate]

I may never look like this but it's nice to have goals.

[Lagertha]

It looks from avatar pic like you have smaller chin. Looking now this photos you posted, especially DMV one, it definitely looks like you would benefit with chin reduction, height-wise and lateral narrowing. Upper lip-lift seems like a good idea. I can't comment on jaw based on this pictures.
If you'll decide to feminize upper face, you should go with a surgeon who does "type3" forehead. Just some burring and smoothing wouldn't make much sense for you. The biggest change will be orbital rims, which will really depend on how much of a forehead set-back will be made.

......

[iKate]

Whoa. That's pretty good, even for a quick attempt.

What kind of pic would you need for the jaw? 3/4 profile?

[Lagertha]

Frontal, taken a larger distance than (like at 8ft) to avoid camera deformation. And 3/4 profile yes, anything around 70° usually works. This will give better idea of how jaw really is. 

[iKate]

Frontal, taken a larger distance than (like at 8ft) to avoid camera deformation. And 3/4 profile yes, anything around 70° usually works. This will give better idea of how jaw really is.

Cool. I'll have to set up the tripod and 30sec timer on the DSLR for that one... stay tuned.

[iKate]

This is another I took the night before I went to DMV to update my license (last month). I was experimenting with various makeup combinations, hoping to get a good pic on my license.

[Debra]

Jumping into this thread, hope things go well for you!

I'm researching/consulting about FFS myself too.

Nice job Lagertha too! Fun to be able to see what could be possible.

[iKate]

Jumping into this thread, hope things go well for you!

I'm researching/consulting about FFS myself too.

Nice job Lagertha too! Fun to be able to see what could be possible.

I agree, thanks!

I'm probably going to do virtualFFS as well, but it's nice to see the possibilities.

[Lagertha]

Looking at DMV photo up in the first post, I would swear that you need lateral jaw reduction. Now looking at the last photo you posted, I'm not shure... I don't think you need it.
When you will be making photos for consultations with surgeons be shure you take the photos from larger distance (and then crop out appropriate size pic). They hate when patients send them "selfie" pics, because of short distance deformation. 

[iKate]

Looking at DMV photo up in the first post, I would swear that you need lateral jaw reduction. Now looking at the last photo you posted, I'm not shure... I don't think you need it.
When you will be making photos for consultations with surgeons be shure you take the photos from larger distance (and then crop out appropriate size pic). They hate when patients send them "selfie" pics, because of short distance deformation.

I agree. Front cameras in phones especially are wide angle.

When I do the DSLR pic I'll use an 85mm portrait lens from about 8-10ft.

The problem with the DMV pic is lighting. Plus facial shadow which tends to create the illusion of a larger chin and jaw.

But once I do the DSLR photos we can get a better idea.

[BellaSwan]

That it may, but a chin and jaw within in female proportions probably would still look female with facial shadows and bad lighting.

[iKate]

That it may, but a chin and jaw within in female proportions probably would still look female with facial shadows and bad lighting.

Oh definitely I have a problem with the chin. That's a given. The jaw, I'm not so sure.

[BellaSwan]

If you don't feel there's a problem, no need to get it done. It's all about relieving our own personal dysphoria, not living up to someone else's expectations! X

[Sydney_NYC]

iKate,

I don't see anything about your face that clocks you as trans at all. There is nothing wrong with getting FFS, but get it for the right reason like you want to change a feature of your face. I can't imagine anything that would change that would make you look more feminine. I don't think that FFS is going to improve passibility at all since you pass completely fine. If you just want plastic surgery to fix flaws, that is a better reason.

I myself have been on the fence about getting FFS. My brow bothers me some as I feel it's a little too strong. No necessarily masculine, but strong. Everyone tells me it's fine. I pass just find and I've seen cis-women with a much stronger brow. After going back and forth on this, I've decided that my $$$ is best spend on hairline improvement so I fee more comfortable with getting my hair wet swimming and being able to where my hair back in the high ponytail. I can pull off a low ponytail, but not a high one.

[RubyAliza]

Hi iKate,

   Thanks for sharing about your possible intentions. You should read Alexandra's virtual ffs website, even if you don't plan to have her give you an evaluation. It's excellent, many FFS doctors are aware of and trust her analyses, but you can just read her descriptions of feminizing different parts of the face.

       I'm not an expert and it also depends on what you want in terms of femininity, but my opinion is you could use full ffs with aggressive type 3, rhinoplasty (although you have a relatively thin bridge as is), very slight lip lift, aggressive sliding genioplasty, jaw tapering, and in my opinion, neck lipo. Actually, you seem to have a similar problem as me (profile pic hides it); excess skin around the jowls and neck, which is why it's impossible to tell with these photos what your jawbone actually looks like. Look in the mirror while you pull up the skin from the sides so you can better see what the bone looks like. Also feel for the masseter muscle in the corners, maybe you need to wait longer for the hormones to work, or perhaps botox or a surgical reduction would help. Maybe it's more of a soft tissue problem than a bone one?

     Whatever the case, you look good and will only look better with ffs. It's your choice but I think you should go for it. In order of prices, most expensive to least, of doctors you should consider: Dr.O/Deschamps-Braly, Dr.Lee/Gary Alter, Dr. Spiegel, Facial Team, Dr. DiMaggio, or Dr.Rossi (my doctor). Any of these doctors will give you the aggressive type 3 and chin/jaw work that will benefit you the most.

    Also, thanks for your thread on Yeson Voice. You helped me make my decision to go to them Seriously voice is just as important, a fact I'm learning the hard way.

- Ruby

[BellaSwan]

I stand by what I said about iKate and I think your money would be better spent on a forehead reconstruction, Sydney. If passing completely is the goal, FFS is a necessity. As trans women, facial proportions aren't the only thing that are "off" and it's rarely just one facial feature. Having an OK feminine face for a cis woman and a trans woman mean widely different things. I think realism is lacking here. I passed before FFS because I'm built like a model, petite for my height, have hips, small feet and hands, the only overly long feature I have are my legs etc, but anyone who knew even the most basic of skeletal differences between males and females would have seen my face was off, and I was generally considered beautiful. I ultimately don't feel it matters what we start with, most of us would still benefit from having most things done. I won the genetic lottery in many ways considering how my face and body developed (and didn't develop), but I'm not going to lie to myself - what needs doing needs doing. Not getting FFS is fine, but let's not pretend it's because it wouldn't benefit each and every one if us who went through a normal puberty, especially if you're above a certain very young age.

[iKate]

I know Sydney very well (we meet up every now and again) and while I respect her opinion, I do think I want to have FFS. No, I don't think I need it to pass at all. I pass right now. I just find that some people may have doubt that I want to remove. It is also about feeling good about myself.

It's like the voice. I knew I could train it but I felt the surgery gave me a better outcome. No regrets whatsoever. It has been a total life changer. I have zero fear of my voice outing me now. I could not sound masculine even if I tried, and I tried as a test on the phone with Amex to their customer service in India, nope, still ma'am. I am extremely pleased about that. I do not have to ever think about my voice and that is wonderful.

I would like to do the same with my face, because I feel it would give me a better self image and help with the doubts that I feel some people have about my gender. I also would not have to worry about how I look if I leave the house quickly, eg to go to the store. Maybe just slip on a sweatshirt and pants. Right now though that's possible, and I don't ever get misgendered, not even visually, but I still feel people have doubt. I want to alleviate that.

Also, these pics without makeup are on purpose. I don't want contouring and other visual tricks to prevent an honest assessment.

One other important consideration is my safety. I am from the Caribbean and it is not a very nice place for transsexuals as we are routinely assaulted and killed. Unfortunately I still have to go there off and on and passing undoubtedly is a matter of safety.