Family and uncertainty

[captains]

Hi everyone. Posting all over the board as usual, haha, sorry. I just wanted to... I dunno, whine a little and see if anyone else was in a similar boat.

I sent an email to my parents yesterday requesting that, in lieu of misc. gifts, they donate to my top surgery "piggy bank." These days, I find that I want a few bucks in the bank more than I want the equivalent amount in knickknacks. For context, I am 23 and semi-financially independent (I'm a full time grad student and my parents help with a small portion of my expenses, something I am endlessly grateful for. The rest I handle with loans.), so it's hard for me to save without a real income.

They responded, um. Well, in that they called to tell me that they loved me unconditionally. My father asked that, rather than fundraise, I just let them pay for the whole thing. So, I can't complain. I absolutely, unequivocally cannot complain.

But there were other aspects to the conversation that shook me up a little. I've brought up the subject before, so it wasn't like I dropped a bomb on them. Nonetheless, they reacted with shock and almost... disgust? The email I got from my father in reply just had the words "Um. Wow. We need to talk." followed up a few minutes later with "Wow."

He said that it was inappropriate for me to ask for this for xmas, because xmas is supposed to be fun and this was, well, not fun.  He found it disturbing. He stressed that "if" this was a necessary procedure for me, he would pay for it, but he really didn't want to talk about it at all, outside of to tell me that he wanted it to be as late as possible and that I would need "intense therapy" post-surgery to deal with the changes. He asked me if I was going to drop out of school to pursue a sex change () and he kept repeating "you can never go back" over and over again. My mom, in a separate conversation, was sure to stress that it wouldn't change anything for me, that I was a beautiful girl but would be... an ugly one after the procedure was done. Top surgery won't turn me into a boy, nor will it lead people to perceive me as one (I don't pass). They both emphasised the scars.

It was all normal stuff, and again, they're supportive so I don't want to be too whiny about it, but the ... tone of the conversation was hard for me to hear. They were clearly disturbed (although they were sure to emphasise their love), and the transparency of their feelings was unsettling to me. I feel like all the security I had about top surgery and my gender identity has been uprooted, replaced with shakiness and shame. I dunno. I'm embarrassed. I'm afraid I've been deluding myself into thinking that this would make me feel better. I dunno. I dunno. I'm a big baby, I guess, haha.

Do any of you find that you're easily influenced by the opinions of others? Can you relate at all? I keep telling myself to nut up, but the problem isn't that I'm hurt by my parents questions (I'm not!) but that I feel knocked off my axis by the sudden reminder that, outside of the trans community, what I'm about to do is really, really weird. Doubts worming their way in.

[Ms Grace]

It's up to you to make your own mind up about your way forward - that said, these are the kind of tactics used by people to talk us out of things they don't want us to do. That doesn't mean they don't care about you, it's just that the prospect of what is involved is overwhelming for them and they can't image why you'd put yourself through a procedure they don't have a need for themselves.

[katrinaw]

Not sure how long since you came out to them, but even with all that support they will sometimes still struggle with the changes.
Personally I think they are showing an amazing amount of support.

Having come out to my wife of well over 40 years of marriage she is showing amazing support (well short of where I'd love to be) however for every step forward there is a half step back. My closest family has shown mixed support.

For you they are just concerned for you and that you are making the right decisions for all the right reasons. You may have to just accept that for now, remember unless they live through what we do they struggle with it all.

L Katy xxx

[Elis]

Wow, your parents sound fantastic. If I was in that situation I don't think I'd pin my hopes on them giving you the money for the surgery. My dad is a bit like your parents. I remember me telling him I had another appointment with the gender therapist and him saying 'why, is there something wrong with you'. Even if he meant it as a joke that was one of the worst things he said. Close second was me telling him I can start T and he responding with 'why do you need that' and 'you'll never realise how weird you are'. All I want to do is give up and stop kidding myself. I've been obsessing myself over this for so long so there must be something wrong with my brain, right. But I know the alternative would be much worse.
You clearly know what you're doing (I've read your other posts), are mature and clearly unhappy living as female. You're making the right choice and going to prove them both wrong soon

[captains]

Yes, they are amazing. I've been out to them for two years and they've come a long way from when they were referring to top surgery as "mutilation." Thank you for your kind words. I try very hard to live well as a woman and to cause as little trouble as possible for my family. They have high expectations of me, and it's important to me that they view me with pride. But sometimes it's difficult.

I've never been someone who acted impulsively about these kinds of things, and I've struggled to come as far as I have wrt self-acceptance. I think my parents see my glacial pace as evidence that I'm not "really" trans (They often emphasise that if I were truly FTM they would support me, but suggest that I'm not fully/truly transgender.), when really, they never saw me throwing tantrums (or even making polite requests haha) because, well, our family has had a lot of other stuff going on and I wanted to be considerate. I wish they would see me, their weird-but-never-troublemaking kid, and know that I don't need to be held back for my own good.

But of course, I understand where they're coming from, and I'd be the same in their shoes. And I'm grateful. I know most people aren't this lucky.

Thanks again. Really, thank you.

[darkblade]

The doubts will run their course and leave, I think, just let them run their course. I think parents just need lots of time to think things through. I came out to mine 11-ish months ago, had my first conversation with dad on the subject a few weeks ago. Before that both my parents thought this was just a phase and will pass, dad always commented on how he'd tried therapy and that it was utterly useless. Mom was/is hoping it'll pass. She once said, "maybe this is just you wanting to be different?" and I just exploded with frustration and told her that I'm already different in so many ways and that I just wanted to be normal. I've also gotten a close friend say, "oh we all wish we were guys, society treats them better" and various iterations on the feminist rant side. Stuff like that do make you think though, even though they may hurt a bit, which I guess is a good thing.

Like yours, I know both my parents care a lot. My mom is at loss with how to help, and my recent conversations with dad on the subject have mainly been him asking a few questions about the process of transition/about how I feel.. followed by an hour of quiet on both our parts. It's hard stuff to stomach, so I'm really grateful he's trying to digest it. I feel like just the thought that I might not get married (the way they'd wished I would) is hard enough on them, let alone the details of physically transitioning.

When my dad asked about surgery (for some reason, in the Arab world people think of transition as if it were a single simple surgery), and I mentioned that you had to take T for basically the rest of your life. He very solemnly said, "so its not a real solution.." That's something I think about a lot too. When I feel like I'm swinging one way or the other, I try to weigh the pros and cons of both cases irrespective of whatever my mood is at the time. I always come out with the same conclusion.

[Kylo]

Do any of you find that you're easily influenced by the opinions of others? Can you relate at all?

No. But that's because I trust my opinion and experience regards my own feelings and self over that of anyone else. This is a thing that comes with increasing age and experience, so if you're fairly young it's no surprise you feel self doubt and peer pressure. When you've lived a certain amount of time you'll understand by way of the unique personality you have developed what will work for you, what will only cause you grief, whether you have a tendency to follow one or the other, and whether or not that tendency leads you to better or worse places, and what is a complete bull->-bleeped-<- waste of time to worry about in life. This is - I believe - unique to each individual, so advice about it from another only goes so far. It's fair to say though that at any age, a person ought to know what is making them feel happier and more content, and what isn't and what is causing them distress. No qualified doctors, specialists, therapists (or parents) can say what feels better or worse to a person than the person themselves. Know thyself.

At the end of the day, this isn't for them, it is for you. I have faced the same kind of dilemma with a long term partner and had to choose between whether I want to live my life in the way I want with the time I have left - which could be extremely long or extremely short, who knows? - or to remain in a body that sickens me so that he will have a romantic partner that doesn't sicken him. We both knew which one was the most important, and which consideration has no contest. He would do the same. Consideration for loved ones, however, is natural. They wouldn't be loved ones if you didn't give a crap what they thought of it, after all.

One thing I will say though is, that I was the good kid, the responsible eldest, largely invisible because I never kicked up a fuss or made demands, supported other family members in their sometimes selfish personal endeavours... and at the end of the day, they still believe I am selfish and incomprehensible. It isn't worth trying to be the good kid forever, or sacrificing your own happiness if they are not truly supportive. I think you need - in no uncertain terms - to sit down with your parents and ask them to listen. 

I think you need to understand as well that transition, surgery, hormones... even trying to move from one gender identity to another will not erase every doubt or every issue you have. Many trans people I have encountered have said this. They are happier on the whole - very few of them seem to regret their decisions to transition - but they have all been through the part where they realize it's not a panacea, that there will still be obstacles, difficulties and sorrows to face. Some of them even say that the twinge of doubt, the question of their reality never completely goes away. That's where knowing yourself will serve you best.

[FTMax]

It was really only after I stopped being influenced by the opinions of others (or what I perceived their opinions would be) that I was actually ready to transition.

It's interesting, my mom had a similar reaction but in reverse. When I told her I wanted money for my birthday to put towards top surgery, she offered to pay for it. She's always been super supportive and very caring about the whole situation. After I healed up post-op, she wanted to see. She thinks my scars are awful. I don't think she'd ever go so far as to call it mutilation, but I know she hates it. She's glad I feel better, but I think it's a combination of how gnarly it looks with knowing everything I've gone through that makes her squeamish about it.

How long have you wanted top surgery? How long have you felt that it was the next logical move for you? If it's not a sudden development, I doubt you would regret it. I'm not sure I've ever seen stats on % of guys that regret top surgery. I know they exist for bottom surgery. Might be something to look up.

[FtMitch]

I know how it feels when parents are... strange... about their acceptance.  Sort of an in between "oh we love you, and it's cool except that it's not because this is obviously nuts" deal.  It SUCKS.  Mine are better than yours, but they still drive me crazy with their obvious lack of acceptance on top of the reiterations that they love me.  Great, you love and support me... So stop ACTING like you don't believe this is real or that you think it is just a phase.  And I, too, have a hard time ignoring their feelings--it causes me to feel ashamed, too.  To be honest, I can barely talk to people face to face about being trans at all.  Trans support groups are better, but to people who don't know what it feels like?  I can barely choke it out.  I had to explain it to my gym in writing because I was too embarrassed to explain details in person, and I can barely talk to my very supporting BFF who has more trans friends than I do.  I often feel like a fake and a freak, mostly because my parents' feelings on it are so obvious, and because I've spent so long believing that they are the ultimate judge of my character and life. But I am just doing my best to work through it and reiterating to myself that I am a grown man, and my parents do not know me like I know me.    But yeah, it is super hard.  I feel for you, dude. 

When I start questioning because of other people's comments, I lay in bed and remind myself of the things that make me a man, focusing on things other than my physical form and imagining myself in the future, living like I want to.  I also rewrite history in my head sometimes, taking my life experiences and reimagining them with me in a male body.  I don't know WHY this helps me, but it does.  I guess it makes me feel like the words "I've always been this in my mind" are more true (I know they ARE true logically, but emotionally it's tough to believe). These things are slowly helping me feel more and more "real," though every time I get misgendered by someone who knows I am a trans man (people in stores or whatever don't bother me 'cause I know I don't pass physically) or when my parents make it obvious they think of me as their daughter, my confidence crashes again.  But I am working to build it up.