Your brain on (your old) hormone system

[November Fox]

Hey guys, and girls, anyone reading this.

I´m mainly happy that I´ve figured out more-or-less where I want to be in life, in terms of who I am and in terms of gender. But.

But there are some times -I don´t know exactly when but it is probably tied to hormonal cycles and ovulation and a bunch of stuff I know very little about. When a tidal wave of estrogen finds its way back into my brain and then I start to question everything all over again (I´m pre-T).

It makes me feel more loving and I´m totally okay with that, but it also has a way of undoing all the conclusions I made for myself during the times that I don´t have this flooding of estrogen. Meaning that most of the time I have everything figured out, but then those hormones hit and since I don´t feel so male during that time, I start to think "oh God what if I´m making a horrible mistake" and has a way of making me anxious and scared.

I just wanted to know if this is a thing that happens to other transgender & transsexual people who are pre HRT.

[Tessa James]

I sent decades dithering with my doubts.  It is impossible to say it was the 'right' way to go but i started full time before HRT and refused to allow that genie back in her bottle.  My sum total reward for years of what ifs, fear, doubt and shame was relief it was "over."

Sure, it is just plain reasonable to consider the options and guys can be very loving too, as you know;-)

[November Fox]

it is just plain reasonable to consider the options and guys can be very loving too, as you know;-)

Of course!

The thing is, I know it´s the hormones at work because during these times my feelings will get magnified in a way that I don´t feel like myself, just as happens with PMS. I am usually very aware of how a drop or a rise in estrogen affects how I feel, and this is exactly that. That´s why I think these doubts are mainly based on the change in hormonal make-up for that period of time... and not really on thought or rational processes.

[Tessa James]

Oh we are complicated critters eh?  And ironic to think some of us can't wait to be on the E ride you might not be enjoying now?  Similarly I detested what I knew T was doing to me as it clearly clouded my judgement and impacted my persona.

My guess is that the T hormones will fit you better.

[Kylo]

I want to see what T will do to my system, whether it helps me focus. I'm already pretty good at focusing on specific things as well as multi-tasking but getting into the "mood of something else" has always been difficult... flipping form one mindset or task to another and concentrating on it absolutely is difficult because the mood of one thing flows into another and isn't so easily compartmentalized. Since art is my job, an example would be if I'm working on one sculpture, and then I gotta start another before the first is finished... so difficult to get into the mindset of the next one while I'm still thinking of the first and it's buzzing around inside my brain still. Since I do both illustrations, sculpts and regular issues of manga, it's a nightmare flipping from one to the other to the other on a regular basis.

Not to mention I tend to evaluate emotional situations cumulatively... whereas my bio male friends and colleagues don't seem to do this at all. They seem to approach each day like it's a completely different or fresh situation and they're hearing some complaint for the first time. But if I hear a complaint I'm thinking to myself, holy ->-bleeped-<-, this is the fifteenth time I've heard this already, I'm just about done here! In relationships it's the same. Cis male partners seem to forget easily about things that have happened but I remember absolutely everything and it's very difficult not to apply the evaluation machine to the whole thing and get depressed or angry because this or that argument keeps coming up and they keep forgetting what they've said in the past but which I took in and remembered and stored away as fact. I blame E for these "tendencies".

I'm not on T yet but I can't say I ever feel like I'm making a mistake to transition or that I don't feel so male one day to the next. I feel 100% not female ever, any of the time. So I'm not sure if estrogen makes me a loving, caring or doubtful person. I doubt it does any of those to me, lol.

But it would be nice to be able to compartmentalize better, focus better, and forget about what people are saying and just focus on the current situation. I don't have much use for many of the supposed emotional benefits of E, I guess.

[November Fox]

Similarly I detested what I knew T was doing to me as it clearly clouded my judgement and impact my persona.

That´s the thing, only it´s really so powerful and convincing that it makes me question myself. That´s why I was wondering if others experienced that - if a surge of hormones made them question their identity.

I'm not on T yet but I can't say I ever feel like I'm making a mistake to transition or that I don't feel so male one day to the next. I feel 100% not female ever, any of the time. So I'm not sure if estrogen makes me a loving, caring or doubtful person. I doubt it does any of those to me, lol.

Urgh, I think that´s the thing that makes me insecure. Because I do feel female at those moments when the estrogen is taking over. I just know that I hate that thing downstairs, (the upstairs stuff doesn´t bother me anymore, yay for binders). But in those moments I sort of seem to "forget" everything else that I disliked about being female and it´s just confusing.

I´ve mentioned to my gender therapist that now and then I go through anxiety about whether or not I´m right in doing this, so they might be able to help me when I start talks in a bunch of months.

Not to mention I tend to evaluate emotional situations cumulatively...

Oh, yeah. Very recognizable, the whole thing, also with the relationships. My tendency to do that and keep score drives me completely nuts. Guys do definitely seem more able to let go of things and then just start over with a blank slate - though you have to admit there´s downsides to that, too.

I don´t know about the emotional benefits of E. I don´t really enjoy it. Like I said before it does make me more loving but in a manner that I would never be if it weren´t for a tidal wave of hormones. It´s more of an animal instinct. Maybe it´s comparable to sex drive in men - not really a choice, it just happens to you and you try to find a way to deal. But overall E causes major moodswings in me and I´d really rather be more stable and focused.

[sparrow]

I hear that transguys lose the ability to multitask, and the ability to cry.

Leaving T behind has taught me a lot about how both T-dominated and E-dominated brains work.  I understand both sides better, and I find myself brokering agreement between men and women in typical gender discussions... I've gained the ability to explain the rationale & motivation of either side in a way that the other will comprehend.  This is a superpower!

[Kylo]

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed E seems to make you focus on very specific details and things people say, score keeping, etc. I do just want to let go of things that don't matter in the long run and relax more.  Focus on the big picture, not the small ones. They say T isn't always relaxing, but for some I hear it makes them feel right and by way of that help them to relax and feel comfortable even if the T itself is more likely to make you feel driven, want to be more active or potentially aggressive. But I've also heard that T doesn't actually make a person aggressive, just that if there are aggressive tendencies in the person to begin with, it might accentuate that. I have to watch myself there because I do have some aggressive genes in me, and I'm under a lot of pressure lately.

E does seem to make people feel calmer, or erupt into emotion more easily. I could use the calming effect of E if it's there, but I really wanna lose the emotional hair-trigger. I've been working on it since I was a kid but as a child I always cried at the drop of a hat. It was very dysphoria inducing. I forgot to mention not crying or feeling like a tsunami of emotion just smacked me in the face will be very welcome. After however many decades I found I just have zero use for crying and all it does is make me feel bad, not better.

[November Fox]

I've gained the ability to explain the rationale & motivation of either side in a way that the other will comprehend.  This is a superpower!

*imagines sparrow flying through the sky with a cape*

E does seem to make people feel calmer, or erupt into emotion more easily. I could use the calming effect of E if it's there, but I really wanna lose the emotional hair-trigger. I've been working on it since I was a kid but as a child I always cried at the drop of a hat. It was very dysphoria inducing. I forgot to mention not crying or feeling like a tsunami of emotion just smacked me in the face will be very welcome. After however many decades I found I just have zero use for crying and all it does is make me feel bad, not better.

For me, E has never made calmer. If anything it has made me agressive, it´s the combination of holding on to things and PMS, it´s the worst. The emotions aren´t always negative but for me, I don´t enjoy the rollercoaster much. Wish my emotions were more predictable 

For me crying does provide relief. But I don´t cry a lot, and I´ve noticed that since I really dived into feeling male and welcoming that feeling, I´m less prone to it.

[sparrow]

After however many decades I found I just have zero use for crying and all it does is make me feel bad, not better.

Yeah... this is a "real gender difference" and not a hormonal difference.  When my dad died, I just wanted to cry.  I'd get two tears out, and dry up.  I was crippled by grief for almost two years, and I couldn't even cry.  This was a source of a huge amount of anguish for me.  After I started E, I found that I could actually produce tears!  Oh wow, how i missed crying!  I mean... there's pain involved, but it's like puking instead of dry-heaving.

[Futurist]

Hey guys, and girls, anyone reading this.

I´m mainly happy that I´ve figured out more-or-less where I want to be in life, in terms of who I am and in terms of gender. But.

But there are some times -I don´t know exactly when but it is probably tied to hormonal cycles and ovulation and a bunch of stuff I know very little about. When a tidal wave of estrogen finds its way back into my brain and then I start to question everything all over again (I´m pre-T).

It makes me feel more loving and I´m totally okay with that, but it also has a way of undoing all the conclusions I made for myself during the times that I don´t have this flooding of estrogen. Meaning that most of the time I have everything figured out, but then those hormones hit and since I don´t feel so male during that time, I start to think "oh God what if I´m making a horrible mistake" and has a way of making me anxious and scared.

I just wanted to know if this is a thing that happens to other transgender & transsexual people who are pre HRT.

While this is just an idea, and while I can easily be wrong in regards to this, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be gender-fluid?

[November Fox]

While this is just an idea, and while I can easily be wrong in regards to this, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be gender-fluid?

That´s how I started out 

First I identified as genderfluid, but as time passed I realized I really, really, really did not feel comfortable with a lot of female sides of me (and I still don´t, most of the time). I abhor the female traits of my body and am more comfortable seeing myself in intimate situations, as a guy.

It´s weird how I switch back to feeling more female during certain timeframes (which are linked to the hormones). My emotions change, but my attitude towards my body doesn´t.

[Kimberley Beauregard]

They say T isn't always relaxing, but for some I hear it makes them feel right and by way of that help them to relax and feel comfortable even if the T itself is more likely to make you feel driven, want to be more active or potentially aggressive. But I've also heard that T doesn't actually make a person aggressive, just that if there are aggressive tendencies in the person to begin with, it might accentuate that. I have to watch myself there because I do have some aggressive genes in me, and I'm under a lot of pressure lately.

You might find this article interesting: http://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/testosterone-poisoning-isnt-what-you-think

There was a study conducted where the effects of T were observed in women. Some were given small amounts and others were given a placebo. The women who thought they were receiving T were more likely to behave in an aggressive manner than the those who actually received it. I wonder what that says about guys who act aggressively...

Obviously, you can't draw any concrete conclusions from this study but many people are somehow able to do that based on the actions of a few men. I'm not ruling out that biology can play a part, but given that most men aren't aggressive and douchey, it's stupid to chalk down certain sets of behaviours (which are defined by society in the first place) on a hormone. Society's view on what constitutes competitiveness is harsher than the reality.

Transmen tend to receive higher doses of T in a shorter amount of time than boys do as they experience puberty so I can understand why the effects might be more potent. That said, the accounts of transmen on Susan's don't corroborate with society's views on T. Many report feeling more mentally stable on the hormone, which would figure if your brain is supposed to receive more of it.

As for me, it's the dominant hormone in my body, but I have issues with concentration and anger. This is because of my ADHD and my current work situation, which is dire. Anxiety and depression affect my mood for the worse too. My DHT was suppressed for some time which helped with concentration, but not much else.

[November Fox]

There was a study conducted where the effects of T were observed in women. Some were given small amounts and others were given a placebo. The women who thought they were receiving T were more likely to behave in an aggressive manner than the those who actually received it. I wonder what that says about guys who act aggressively...

Interesting take. When I still identified as genderfluid, I did have times where I was trying to be more "manly" and I did so by being more agressive and using force. Later I realized that it didn´t have anything to do with being manly, that I could be masculine without resorting to that.

Maybe some guys who act aggressively could be proving a point (masculinity) because they don´t feel masculine enough? Just a theory. I know women who have resorted to violence as well and I despise it in both genders.

I have issues with concentration and anger too, which for me are (partly) related to hormones (I seem to have an estrogen deficiency which can lead to anxiety, moodswings and concentration problems) (I´m pre-T). Have you linked it to your hormonal balance? Could be related.

[AnonyMs]

I found by far the biggest difference is that my dysphoria, depression, and all the craziness is gone. I'd almost say I wasn't trans, except for the HRT and breasts and stuff.

You might find this article interesting: http://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/testosterone-poisoning-isnt-what-you-think

There was a study conducted where the effects of T were observed in women. Some were given small amounts and others were given a placebo. The women who thought they were receiving T were more likely to behave in an aggressive manner than the those who actually received it. I wonder what that says about guys who act aggressively...

I can't read the actual study without paying, but on the face of it I don't think its very credible. They really gave cis-women significant doses of testosterone? How did they like their side effects of that? More likely they didn't get enough to make a measurable difference. It also goes against my experience (in the other direction) and many others I've heard about

The papers abstract talks about folk wisdom from animal studies (which probably did use high levels of T), but no mention of the trans experience; humans who take high levels of T? It doesn't inspire confidence.

"Evidence from animal studies in rodents shows that testosterone causes aggressive behaviour towards conspecifics. Folk wisdom generalizes and adapts these findings to humans, suggesting that testosterone induces antisocial, egoistic, or even aggressive human behaviours."

[captains]

Hey guys, and girls, anyone reading this.

I´m mainly happy that I´ve figured out more-or-less where I want to be in life, in terms of who I am and in terms of gender. But.

But there are some times -I don´t know exactly when but it is probably tied to hormonal cycles and ovulation and a bunch of stuff I know very little about. When a tidal wave of estrogen finds its way back into my brain and then I start to question everything all over again (I´m pre-T).

Hm, this is me as well! I experience profound changes in dysphoria in relation to my hormonal cycles. I'm on a continuous dose of a ethinyl estradiol based birth control, and I've found that that does wonders for my dysphoria. When I'm premenstrual, I feel like I want to rip at my skin, claw out my hear. I know I'm a man on those days and my body feels disgusting to me, ugly and offensive and just plain wrong. Now that I don't PMS anymore... everything is kind of okay. I still feel trans -- it didn't turn me into a girl -- but the screeching cacophony of dysphoria was replaced by a more constant drone. Some days I feel fine.

Honestly, it freaks me out a little bit. Every time I hear about women feeling better on estrogen, I'm like " is this me? Am healthier and happier with estrogen in my system because I'm a woman, and have been this whole time? Was I confusing dysphoria with regular ol' PMS dysmorphia?"

I will say, though, that my time on anti-androgens correlates nicely with my sudden, panicked realisation of trans identity. So I've got evidence in both directions, I guess, haha.

[November Fox]

Honestly, it freaks me out a little bit. Every time I hear about women feeling better on estrogen, I'm like " is this me? Am healthier and happier with estrogen in my system because I'm a woman, and have been this whole time? Was I confusing dysphoria with regular ol' PMS dysmorphia?"

This might sound horrible but aww I am not the only one  I was seriously beginning to worry. "Oh God maybe this is the wrong decision, I told everybody to call me a man, what if I am really a woman and I am just denying myself".

I´ve never been on anti-androgens. I do have a suspicion that they could actually make me feel better, because my estrogen levels are too low, which leads to PMS, lack of energy, moodswings, the package. Only difference is I actually feel more female during and after PMS and after that I go back to feeling male. The dysphoria gets worse though even when I feel female, especially during shark week.

Maybe going back to the female side is kind of going back to the comfort zone (for me). Everything was delineated in there, I knew my own identity, but it blew because it was always akward. That wasn´t really me, either.

[captains]

We're gender/cycle opposites! If you mashed us together, you'd get one normal dude and one normal chick. :') For what it's worth, I feel better for not being alone too.

Also, obvs I don't have the answers wrt your specific identity, but if it helps, low E levels would probably make you feel like garbage regardless of gender. Our body works on such a fine equilibrium, you know? When our hormones aren't in balance it throws everything off. I mean, I had a period where I (ill-advisedly) took a stupid amount of herbs/vitamins with anti-estrogen properties and I felt super weird. I dropped a bunch of weight, my OCD got really bad, my gender swung "male" really hard and fast... Idk.

I hear you on female being the uncomfortable comfort zone. I used to feel like I knew where I stood "as a woman" at least, but these days, damn, it's anyone's guess.

[Kimberley Beauregard]

Interesting take. When I still identified as genderfluid, I did have times where I was trying to be more "manly" and I did so by being more agressive and using force. Later I realized that it didn´t have anything to do with being manly, that I could be masculine without resorting to that.

Maybe some guys who act aggressively could be proving a point (masculinity) because they don´t feel masculine enough? Just a theory. I know women who have resorted to violence as well and I despise it in both genders.

I have issues with concentration and anger too, which for me are (partly) related to hormones (I seem to have an estrogen deficiency which can lead to anxiety, moodswings and concentration problems) (I´m pre-T). Have you linked it to your hormonal balance? Could be related.

On aggression: that's my hunch. I think those who put on an aggressive front are desperate to prove something.

On my hormonal balance: I mentioned it in passing on a thread under General Discussion, but mine are odd. I don't have exact units, only figures, but my T is high-normal at 34.5 (the highest standard is 37). However, my E is over twice the upper bound in the standard range, which is 130; mine is 275. I also have an overactive thyroid and an abnormal liver function. The doctors are trying to see how these are linked.

I'm considering low-dose hormone replacement therapy to alleviate my dysphoria (I've finally got the ball rolling with Sheffield GIC, shame about the 70+ week wait!). I have absolutely no way of knowing how it will affect my mood and concentration. As it stands, issues with depression and ADHD need to be tackled separately from my dysphoria. The carbimazole for my hyperthyroid and citalopram for my depression work for me. I'll have to wait on stimulants for my concentration until my thyroid is sorted out.

Maybe my brain would work better with lower levels and T and higher levels of E, but I can't say at this stage. The improved concentration from taking finasteride is apparently reported by many guys. However, my surge in E has seems to be recent, I'm just not sure that's the cause of my steady improvement in emotional stability over the past year.

I can't read the actual study without paying, but on the face of it I don't think its very credible. They really gave cis-women significant doses of testosterone? How did they like their side effects of that? More likely they didn't get enough to make a measurable difference. It also goes against my experience (in the other direction) and many others I've heard about

The papers abstract talks about folk wisdom from animal studies (which probably did use high levels of T), but no mention of the trans experience; humans who take high levels of T? It doesn't inspire confidence.

"Evidence from animal studies in rodents shows that testosterone causes aggressive behaviour towards conspecifics. Folk wisdom generalizes and adapts these findings to humans, suggesting that testosterone induces antisocial, egoistic, or even aggressive human behaviours."

You make some incredibly valid points and I understand your concerns with the study. I don't believe we can (or should) draw concrete conclusions from it, but I do think its findings are worth discussing. My issue is with how much stock we place on hormones in determining behaviour and a person's demographic instead of considering their social status and history.

I'm sorry if I'm digressing from the original topic.

[Obfuskatie]

I've vacillated between very confident and nervous over my choices with my transition since I started. Transition is daunting and hard, but I'm happier now than I've been ever. Don't let the possibility of a different variety of choices paralyze you and keep you from doing what's necessary. To be completely honest, it doesn't matter if some of my choices weren't the most optimal, they got the job done when it needed to be done. All that's left afterward is patience and conviction, so work on educating yourself about what you need to know and you'll be able to make those informed decisions.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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