greetings!!

[veronica]

hello,

thank you for your advice and wisdom peggianne from your repsonse to my last post...

today brings me much sadness and a feeling of emptyness...i asked lisabeth to return the

glasses all 3 pairs that total 600 dollars the response was i'll return the sunglasses only!

the sunglasses were 45 dollars.  the fact here is this behavior is unacceptable and very

deceitful and selfish!!  i can not reward this negative destructive act by allowing lisabeth

to keep the glasses.  why would one reward such a decitful act -only to reinfoirce negative acts.

the frosting on the cake of deceit is when lisabeth indicated the plan to write a thank you

letter to lenscrafters for the wonderful shopping experience and great service!!  i am numb

with sadness and frustration! 
i agree with your following statement peggiann: 
When you have a marriage, no one gets to have what they want by themselves if the family doesn't have what they need first. When you married that's what you said "I do" to. Your home, your kids and all it takes to keep it a float come first.

the message lisabeth is sending out is "we" -so and children are not important!

i will see where today takes me...i am trying to take a day at a time

veronica       

[Peggiann]

Good morning Veronica,

I can feel for you I had a sinking in my chest when I read what you wrote. Give it time a day or so more bringing up nothing about it and try for lite conversation if anything at all. only because you need regroup time and Lisabeth needs it to soak in time. I don't see comprimize here. Not even a little.

Keep your chin up and smile and again give yourself a hug and tell yourself I love me.


Peggiann

[Dennis]

I've avoided stating my opinion here largely because I concur with what the others have said. There does seem to be a problem here on a par with addiction.

I'm not sure that characterizing it repeatedly as deceit is going to get Lisabeth to go along with the program though. It's likely making her defensive and oppositional. She has a problem and she needs to take steps to deal with it. Returning the purchases is one step, therapy or a 12 step program would be another.

It helps that she doesn't have access to the credit cards anymore. Maybe the two of you could sit down and look at your budget and make a rule that both of you are bound by about limits on spending, like Jillieann has. ie: neither of you will spend more than $50 in a week on things for yourself without consulting with the other. You might even have to make rules about what is a purchase for self and what is for household.

Your anger is justified, Veronica, especially in light of the refusal to return the purchases. I'm concerned, though, that using trigger words like deceit and lies is making it more difficult for the two of you to work through this. I suppose an analogy would be if Lisabeth were alcoholic and had just gone on a drinking binge. Yes, she would have lied to get the booze and to drink it, but the problem is more than the deceit.

Dennis

[JenniferElizabeth]

Hi and welcome Veronica dear.
I cant add any more other than copy what has been said already.
I hope it works out for you and Lisabeth. I think the idea of sitting down and agreeing to the limit is very wise. See, I have alittle trouble also. But, I do wait untill the bills are paid, and if I have some extra. Like I work overtime, then I'd use that for my f'o money. I like to buy dvds and cd's Mostly from the 70s music,
and horror movies. But, its agreed that thats my play money and I can do as I please.See, we have 2 car notes, and house note, and alot of other bills. So, those come first. I hope Lisabeth comes to her sences and gets with the program. Huggs.

[Kimberly]

In my OPINION you both need to sit down and have a nice long talk without name calling, without refusing to compromise (etc.). You both need to understand so very very much!
...
I will not say anything else so I'll actually post this one...

Best of luck to you two, but luck is not what you need right now.

[Kate Thomas]

  I believe a realtionship is based on honesty and trust. 

Hi
From my point o view veronica nailed it on the wall with "trust"  it is also clear that the needs of the family is her top prioriy! Also clear is the great love that she has for lizabeth.

Lizabeth... YOUR FAMILY NEEDS YOU!  You must put your total trust into veronicas hands and make every effort to rebuild her trust..   

If you cannot set aside your vanity and trust her to help you.....

well let me just say, that a bag full of regrets and lost opertunitys is all i have left of my marrage.

With Love
Kate Alice Thomas
Good luck to you both

[Shelley]

Hi Veronica and welcome to Susan's,

It's really great to have you here with us and if getting things of your chest helps you've come to the right place.

It sounds to me like you are a very sensible person who is trying to hold together a relationship under very difficult circumstances. I have to agree with the others that it's not a TG thing but in fact a compulsive disorder that needs to be addressed.

From Lisabeths posts I can see why you would want to work things out as she does have an endearing personality. It concerns me a little that she doesn't seem to share your concerns on the effect on the household budget. Perhaps some councelling from a therapist would assist in this area.

Look forward to youra and Lisabeth's future posts.

Shelley

[Peggiann]

Good morning Veronica,

I have posted something over in CD forum under post entitled "Progress" We aren't supposed to double post so what I've said there will not be repeated here.

However there is an item of thought I purpose to you.
Your spouse is your equal and how you address issues you have should be on the level you would want to be addressed when working things out. I did not mean that you be overbearing or controlling or in anyway mothering toward Lisabeth.

I feel that is how it would come across if someone took my personal belongings away. I realize you have given them back but at the same time the damage of belittlement had already been done too. It's only a natural response to hit back when we have been hurt in some way. It looks like you are both doing some hitting. Your job and how you work and relate with those individuals should be separate from how you work things out with your spouse. You'll need to try to change modes when you walk out the door when the shift at work is over.

I realize that it's also important for one to take care and pamper ones self. The problem comes when a ballance is tipped. In order to move back to positive ground there needs to be We in mind not I and Me. That Me, Me, Me syndrome can be very distructive for everyone.

I made a comment about rewards in the other colunm. I hate to think of it as rewards. That almost sound like your dealing with a child too. I personally never did rewards for good behavior. I always felt that took away from the personal saticfaction of accomplishing something. The accomplishment it's self is reward enough.

In some homes I am aware that even $10.00 is more than can be found because of existing debt obligation. That's why I suggested that a new job part time fund what was needed for this side to Lisabeth. What she is doing at the building center is for helping with the house hold too right. It was taken on because of the whole of debt and set backs from Lisabeth's being out of work. There for once Lisabeth has helped in undoing that obligation then the moneies earned on the part time job could go to her persueing the Lisabeth side.

You have other issue that you need to address as well. Us the time with the Therapist together to figure out just where you feel comfortable and where the amberrasment issues are. Education of what it is this curveball you have been thrown really means to you and your personal self is important for both of you to understand.

How old are your Children again?

All of what you and Lisabeth are going through your children can feel the tension from and may need help from the therapist with it. Dealing with parents at odds can cause them to feel guilt if they are left out in the cold as to what is causing mommy and daddy to be upset all the time. I am concerned for them in all of this as well as for how you and Lisabeth are doing. Children have always been my soft spot. Watch for signs of needing help in coping from their behavior and their grades in school. Those are where they show stress signs first.

How did you session go with the therapist? Was any ground made in the right direction or is it still to early to tell?

Well, I have to go pick Leah up from her appoinment and then we are headed out and won't be back till Saturday sometime. Bye Bye for now.  Keep on Keeping on Lady it will work out one way or another.


Smiles,
Peggiann

[Jillieann Rose]

Veronica,
I have been reading both postings hoping for some positive progress.
Looks like many of my sisters and brothers here are giving you good advice.
And yes there is more than TG issues here. Have you had your join the therapy session?
How did it go?

Yes Veronica I do plan on telling my wife soon.  I know when I do, to say the least; she will be hurt and confused. To cause a loved one (the one person in this world that I love the most) pain is something no one in their right mind wants to do.
Beside that my mind keeps asking questions about how it will affect our marriage: will she think less of me, think I'm a sick-o, a religious heretic (I am a leader in our church), hate me and possibly even leave me.
Yes Shelly I read your postings on your wife finding out about you and I know that I need to tell here.
Just to give you an idea of the stress in our lives right now. We are both looking for new jobs maybe in another part of the country. She is having some health issues. Our youngest son 21 has no high school diploma, no job and got drunk and totaled one of our cars recently. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, we are in a financial crunch and really have to watch or pennies too.
I have began to write an article to share with my SO on what I am a Transgender/ Cross Dresser with (GID) Gender identity disorder. And what I believe religiously about what I am.

I will continue to pray for you Veronica, also for Lizabeth and your children.
Jillieann

[veronica]

hello,

thank you all for your input...

we are trying to communicate more openly.  lisabeth tends to build walls and shut me out...

i need to allow her to open the lines of communication if we are to rebuild our relationship.

jillieann i am so sorry about your son i hope he was not injured in the accident,  that must

of been very stressful for you and your spouse.  it sounds like you have alot on your plate

at the moment.  i think you will know when the " right" time will be to share your feelings

with your wife.  i think it is so important to let her in and be open and honest. 

i do not want to treat lisabeth like a child,  since i am such a nurturer by nature i may

tend to get carried away-it was the only way i was reaching lisabeth.  stubborness is

a trait lisabeth has along with selfishness and selfabsorbing tendancies but lisabeth can

also be kind and loving and funny with a sense of humor -a sense of humor is what i

remember most when we first met over 11 years ago.  i am hoping we have many

more years together but i can not handle any more deceit it is destroying our

relationship.  we need to start making compromises together and begin to rebuild

our relationship back to the loving one i thought we once had.  we can be so good

together.  our next appt. with the therapist is together on the 20th...i am looking forward

to appt.   


veronica

[Shelley]

our next appt. with the therapist is together on the 20th...i am looking forward to appt.   

Good luck to you both and keep in their Veronica I think Lisabeth will benefit from your support.

Shelley

[Jillieann Rose]

Hi Veronica,
When my son totaled the car, because he had been drinking, he came out of it without a physical scratch on him. But he was really shook-up and lost his drivers licenses and spend a night in jail. He's ADD and Hyper-active too so this hasn't helped his depression. Mentally he is around 15 even though he is actually 21.We hope and pray he will find a new job so that he can get back on his feet again.

Let us know how all goes at the therapy session on the 20th.
If there is anyway I can help please let me know.
Hang in there.

Hugs, from your friend

Jillieann

[Lisabeth]

Hi everyone,

Gee I feel like my name is mud around here.  I think some of the things I said were somewhat misconstrued.  One thing was that I continued to deny the glasses purchase even after confronted with the bill.  There was no bill, Veronica simply asked if I had made any more purchases since New Year's.  I couldn't get myself to tell her about the glasses because I knew she would be furious.  I guess I have been hiding my purchases for so long, it came easier to lie than to face the truth.  As I have said before, I am sorry that I continued my old habits of lies and deceit.  The thing that hurt the most was this:

Sorry to hear Lisabeth's words are empty and meaningless. Here in the forum we have to at first, take what someone says at face value, trusting that they are in fact who they profess to be and do what they say they will do.

"I love my wife and it bothers me deeply that I don't have more self control, even when I know we can't afford it.  I will make this up to her no matter what it takes.  She has every right to be furious with me. "

That really hurt alot, because when I said I would make it up to Veronica no matter what it takes, I meant it, and I will make it up to her.  I really think we are going to be able to work things out.  It may seem thick on my part but I never considered returning the glasses as one of the options at the time that I said that.  I was hoping I could make it up to her in some other way.
  I had wanted to get a pair of glasses for many years, but never had the guts to go through with it.  The first pair was not impulsive, I had carefully planned it out, and called two days before to make sure I wouldn't be rejected.  The second pair of glasses, and the sunglasses were impulsive though, and that is where I really need more self control.   It was not easy for me to walk into that store in male mode and try on female glasses in front of other customers.  I knew I would never go this far again, and did not want to let the price stop me at that point.  I have a problem in that respect.  It's like Cassie was saying about the gamblers addiction, you always think you can make it up somehow later.   I know it was an expensive purchase when we really can't afford it.  We both have decent salaries, but when I was out of work 3 years ago we ran up some debt.  We are slowly working are way out of that.  We both do everything we can to save most of the time.  I work 50 hours every week including weekends and aside from the roughly $1500 total that I have spent on Lisabeth in the past 6 months, I rarely make pleasure purchases for myself.  My wife and I have talked this over quite a bit lately, and I think we may have come up with some solutions that will be good for both of us.  I will not get into those right now, but I think we both will be happy in the end. 
  I have given my wife my credit cards, and I don't plan to make any more crazy purchases like that.  I was simply trying to come up with a complete female package over the past couple of months.  I feel like I am through at this point.  There are several small things that I would like, but I have agreed with Veronica, that when I feel like I need something, I will add it to a wishlist, and if finances permit, I may be able to make the purchase, but only with her consent.  I am hoping I can abide by this, and can avoid any more lies and deceit.  I really want this marriage to work, and I am thankful that I have a wife like Veronica, who is at least making attempts to understand, even though I know this is so hard for her.  Anyway, I want to thank everyone for their input, even though the truth hurts some times.

Love,

Lisabeth

[Jillieann Rose]

Hello Lizabeth,
You posted

Gee I feel like my name is mud around here.

That's not true and I'm sure other people here will tell you so too.
We are just concerned about you and your family.
I check the site daily and look to see if you have been here.
I've been thinking and praying for you Veronica and the kids allot.

I really want this marriage to work, and I am thankful that I have a wife like Veronica, who is at least making attempts to understand, even though I know this is so hard for her.

That a girl Lizabeth. I think Veronica is a great SO. The fact that she is willing to learn as much as she can about you by join Susan's show how much she really cares and loves you. I have enjoyed talking to her here and feel that she has gained some new friend, one of them being me.
Do try shopping for bargains; it really help's when you are on a tight budget.

Love Your TG Sis

Jillieann

[Dennis]

I'll chime in on that Lisabeth, your name is not mud. I've not thought anything negative about you at all through this whole discourse. I was concerned that there might be a problem that you weren't dealing with. It seems, however, that you are dealing with it and I'm glad to see it.

I've also been concerned about Veronica's terminology and the effect it might have on you and your efforts.

Keep working things out.

Dennis

[Peggiann]

Mud... no I did not use that word at all. I do not feel ill feelings about you either. I was and continue to be concerned for your relationship with Veronica. It will take nothing short of returning the glasses to make it right with her. She has stated that. She has said she asked you to return them and that you refuse. Your blanket statement what ever it takes is what got you in this spot your in. She has told you what it would take and you refuse to do what it will take. Your word is at stake here. Your chance to build back trust is at stake. That is what my comment was about Your keeping your word.

It may seem thick on my part but I never considered returning the glasses as one of the options at the time that I said that.  I was hoping I could make it up to her in some other way.

I don't think it is up to you to decide what it is she's willing to accept as "I will make this up to her no matter what it takes." Is carried out. Your blanket statement took care of you having a choice in the matter.

I am glad you have another appointment jointly with the therapist. I hope you both voice these and other issues openly at that time and have help with them. I'm also glad to read in the post that Veronica has agreed to your time needed for letting Lisabeth out in the open and breath and live freely from time to time.

I am sorry if stating what should be obvious was hurtful. None of what I say is ment to hurt only make someone think. To help them make a step in the right direction for the better in the relationship.

I too agree with Dennis, I've also been concerned about Veronica's terminology and the effect it might have on you and your efforts. And have posted on these remarks. From Veronica's reply post though it is to no avail. She continues to bring up and use these hurtful choices in wording. I realize she is hurting and can't heal till you solve the sunglasses issues. How ever the continueing in treating you like a child by taking your belongings and justifieing it as she does is not helping you be able to feel good about Lisabeth either and can have some rebounding results that will cause regret and guilt in the long run for you. Possibly her too. You have so much else to continue to work through but seem stuck in limbo at this issue. If she can't get past these using positive remarks to ehlpher through it will truely be hard. I am concerned in this respect for you both moving forword can't come if you can't leave old baggage behind and not look back.

I was glad to see some possitive compliments about you in her post. the were looking and remembering the past though not something from the present.

lisabeth can also be kind and loving and funny with a sense of humor -a sense of humor is what i remember most when we first met over 11 years ago.  Color choice is for green and growing. It's a start.

Lisabeth copie out the possitive statements from Veronica's post only those and read them over often so you see they are important and can be impacted more. The rest of the post don't read as much when you need a pick me up. Only take your copy out and read over what it is she finds good about you abd says so. only the supportive parts of your Lisabeth side, like being able to allow you time to dress when the kids are away. Things like that.

Both of you keep your chins up and eye on the end result you both want.

Smiles,
Peggiann

[Cassandra]

Lisabeth,

No your name is not mud. I was and continue to be somewhat disappointed. I still think you should take the glasses back. You said you would do whatever it takes. You have talked the talk, it is time to walk the walk. If you do not do this it will remain a wedge between the two of you. I know of what I speak and am concerned for you and your spouse. I hope you will reconsider and do what in your heart you know is the right thing.

Cassie

[Louise]

Welcome to Susan's, Veronica.  Just to come here shows that you are willing to communicate.  My wife is very supportive of my crossdressing but has never posted here. (Although I am not one of the most active posters, I have been visiting here for about eight years.)

You and Lizabeth are both in my prayers.  Just remember that, while communication is necessary, patience and compassion are also important to sustain your relationship.  Hugs to both of you.

[Shelley]

Hey Lisabeth,

Some of the comments maybe considered a little harsh but I think you will find that it was because people cared for both of you. It is very good to hear both sides. I hope that you and Veronica get through this because it is obvious with both your posts that you both care deeply for each other.

Good luck to you both and hang in there.

Shelley

[Peggiann]

HI Veronica,

I hope you and Lisabeth are doing better and making head way. I looked at the calendar and realized this was the day of your next joint therapy. Just wanted to say hope it goes well for you both.

I was also glad to hear from Lisabeth that she had agreed to take back the glasses and you and her were going shopping for somae together. I think think that's a step in a positive direction.

I also wanted to ask how are you doing? I mean this has to be a real shock with all that is transpiring with lisabeth. Are you ok with the interest in HRT?



Smiles,
Peggiann