Need help choosing between Hilary and Bernie

[suzifrommd]

Our primary is only a few months away and I'm still not sure who I'm going to vote for. I've narrowed it down to a choice between Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

I think Hilary would make a good president. But she's a lousy campaigner. She often comes off wooden and tentative when she answers questions. The only strategy I've ever seen her employ is to act like she's already won the election and not do anything to draw attention to her rival. That went disastrously for her in 2008, when she started out far and away the front runner and ended up losing to a previously little-known junior senator. Yet that seems to be what she's doing now, and despite the fact that Sanders is gaining on her, she just seems to be hanging on hoping he can't overtake her. I'm concerned she may not be a good enough campaigner to beat even weak candidates the Republicans put forth, and that that voting for her will end up paving the way to the presidency for a transphobe like Rubio, Cruz, Huckabee, Carson, or Christie or a demagogue like Trump.

Sanders would be a decent president as well, but I have trouble with some of his policies. He favors single payer health care, which has me picturing transgender folk in this country enduring the waiting lists and red tape that seem to plague those in Canada, England, and Scandinavia who seek transition-related care. I don't like his negative views on free trade which run contrary to any knowledgeable economist I've ever heard discuss the topic. I'm also concerned that his unabashed claiming of the Socialist label will also allow for a dangerous Republican to exploit anti-socialist bias to make it to the White House. However, he is a better speaker than Hilary, and really has a grasp of what is wrong with the country and the direction we've been headed. He's not afraid to call out wealthy interests and understands the importance of curbing the accumulation of wealth in the upper strata of society.

For those who are also making this choice, what is important to you? What favorable stances on issues, leadership traits, or political skills have you seen that has helped you pick one? What questions should we be asking?

Emphatic Request: Posts that bash either of these candidates, the Democratic party, politicians in general, or the political process do not belong in this thread. If you make a post here that violates the TOS injunction against bashing or pulls the thread off-topic, I will ask the moderators to remove it.

[Deborah]

Ok.  This isn't a bash but I just view Hillary as dishonest and I don't want to vote for any more dishonest people in that office.  Bernie on the other hand comes across as honest and genuine so I would feel good trusting him.  As far as their policies I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to either party yet as the whole process at this point bores me.  After the nominations are in I will start paying attention in earnest.


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[cheryl reeves]

Bernie is a socialist and Hillery she loves communism and will let more people die for her ineptitude too lead. I'm a conservative Republican and Hate communists or liberals, sorry but its the truth. I'm voting for Trump for we need a business man too get this country running again, for going on 10 yrs now and our country is dying. I know since I'm trans I have to side with liberalism, but I can't for I believe in the republic not a democracy, for in a republic the people rule, under a democracy the government rules. The USA was founded on a republic and Thomas Jefferson warned us about what a democracy would do too us, well Franklin Roosevelt who was a socialist forced us into a democracy while the people were sleeping. I wish more Americans would study history, I know more about this country then the people who are supposed too be teaching it. Long live the republic.

[Kova V]

Who is more LGBT friendly?

[Deborah]

I used to be Republican.  Now I'm not and its not primarily because of being trans either.  The main reason, hopefully without crossing the line, is that I see the Republicans advocating policies that will in time transform this country into a theocratic totalitarian system at perpetual war with everybody that I don't want to live under and I certainly didn't spend 20 years in the Army defending.


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[stephaniec]

I'm sorry, I just  don't get the dislike of Hilary. She's basically the most qualified of both the GOP and the DNC.  Just don't get it/

[Deborah]

Well, for me the whole Benghazi debacle turned me against her forever.  I can never trust a politician that hangs Americans out to die and then refuses to do anything to stop it.


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[Eva Marie]

I think that Hillary has a lot of integrity issues - she's been caught spinning tall tales (ie: "I was under sniper fire") and shes been involved with a lot of questionable dealings (ie: whitewater, missing billing records from the rose law firm, mail server). And shes already lived in the white house.

Bernie on the other hand has a track record of standing with disadvantaged people; he seems to be an honest candidate that means what he says.

Honesty in the white house is very appealing to me at the moment.

[stephaniec]

sorry, If Abraham Lincoln or George Washington were running I'd probably agree that she might try to blame the loss of the cherry tree on Bill therefore I'd have to vote for George or Abe

[Wynternight]

I will remind people of the TOS, particularly 10:

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:◾Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
◾Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
◾Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation

One more violation and this thread will be locked and penalties given to the violators.

[FTMax]

Bernie without a doubt. As a native Marylander, I'd love to see a Bernie/O'Malley team take the White House.

I would be especially excited about his healthcare ideas. I personally do not see the red tape of Canadian and European healthcare to be a bad thing - you jump through the hoops, they take care of your transition. As someone who feels overly burdened with the financials of my transition, it's something I would welcome. And I think Martin O'Malley would help get moderates off the fence and down into the democrat camp.

Don't get me wrong, I love Hillary. Her experience is tough to come up against. It's her integrity that I have a problem with. Campaign politics in general are filled with lies, but I feel that they're mostly benign and for the sake of trying to win. I think the lies that Hillary has told are more for self-preservation, and that's not something that I respect.

I wish Rand Paul had done better in the Republican camp this time around. I genuinely feel that he would make an excellent president. As it stands, I really do hope that Trump gets the nomination. That'll ensure that a democrat gets elected.

[Kova V]

Yeah, that's the problem with oliticians, they're politicians... 

I'm really torn, I know Hillary has made it a point to reach out to the trans community, I also know Bernie is way more liberal and most likely just as supportive.

I think Hillary would be able to get more done and would be motivated to as she would be the first US prez to be a woman. Bernie, I'm not sure how much pull he'd have or how much pressure he'd be able to lay on. I like Bernie but I think he'd have a difficult time accomplishing what he wants to do.

I think I just made up my mind. Hillary. She can definitely get stuff done because she knows how to play the game. And she's pro-lgbt community.

[stephaniec]

I think the choice is quite simple , the difference between taking a few gallons of water with you for an afternoon hike in death valley doing the hottest day in the summer or taking a few gallons of molasses . Hillary of course .

[Tysilio]

Mrs. Clinton (like most other politicians) is an opportunist: she adjusts her political positions after raising a finger to check the winds of the moment, but her intentions and actions don't change to match. She has also taken advantage of whatever position she's been in to use it for personal gain. For example, she has taken millions of dollars in "speaking fees" from Wall Street over the years; no matter what she says, if she's elected she is going to protect their interests, and to hell with ordinary Americans.

Mr. Sanders, not so much. He has held the same beliefs over a long career and isn't shy about expressing them. I believe he is the only candidate from either party who genuinely cares about the interests and well-being of regular people. I don't like his support for defense spending and for Israel, but he's no worse on those issues than most of the other candidates -- and better than many. His positions on everything else more than make up for those things.

There's a good reason why he's been popular in Vermont (not the most "liberal" state around) for decades: he puts his political money where his mouth is and actually does things for the benefit of his constituents instead of for the rich and powerful.

To my way of thinking, it's a no-brainer.

[RobynD]

I'm a socialist so my first choice will be Bernie. Hillary is a bit too far to the right and is fairly hawkish about our country's military role around the world. Hillary has been involved in healthcare reform. She campaigned hard for it during the Clinton era=, in many ways that set the stage for an acceptance of the ACA.  I will happily take a single payer system and i think either candidate could help get us one or two steps closer to that.

Bernie, despite the media and very little coverage is clearly the populist candidate. Love his positions on most everything. I believe the idea that democratic socialism is good is quickly spreading and the idea that socialism is not communism as well, so i am not to worried about Bernie going against a Republican. I use to be a conservative i remember how those associations were commonly made.

So it will be Bernie for me, but Hillary if she wins the nomination. Sometimes after the convention i will show up at the local Dem office and be prepared to work for either of them.

[Wynternight]

It's so simplistic for low information voters to dismiss Bernie as a socialist because they equate socialism with places like NK (facist), the former USSR (not socialist), etc. Saunders is actually a socialist along the Scandinavian model and if people would do some research they would see what he stands for. Think, and look, for yourself, and stop trusting Fox News talking heads and RW radio.

[stephaniec]

Not to open a can of worms, but how much of the attitude and the excuses conjured up against Clinton is because she's a well educated , intelligent and capable female that has earned the right to be President of a great nation. Her qualifications stack up against any previous president except Abraham Lincoln. I know I've talked to a few who've dismissed her ability just because she's an intelligent , strong willed female. I'm not referring to anyone on this site, but I've had plenty of conversations with people where I get the  impression that her real problem is being female.

[Deborah]

I expect that very little of the general disapproval people have is related in any way to her sex.  People simply don't trust her for all the reasons mentioned above.


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[Wynternight]

I expect that very little of the general disapproval people have is related in any way to her sex.  People simply don't trust her for all the reasons mentioned above.


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I would say that both you and Steph are correct. There is certainly a gender element at work here.

[stephaniec]

That's why I just don't get the amount of criticism for her. The embassy thing for example. It was a terrorist act. She had nothing to do with it. You could say that all the secret service at the Time of the Kennedy assignation should of resigned for not predicting   and preventing Oswald from killing President Kennedy. Chalk one up for the terrorist , they found a way to manipulate our elections.