Proper Hormone Levels For MTF

[Lyndsey]

I'm 9 mos. into cross sex hormone therapy.  I've been on the patch.  Initially one, then two, then three.  Total E levels only moved from 31 at 90 days (one patch)  42 at 120 days (2 patches) 76 at 180 days (3 patches). Little feminization.
Some breast tenderness, mental changes, body odor. T is very low.  My endo is taking me off the patches in favor of injections.  His target was around 200.  We'll see if this change is effective.  Have to stop all hormones next week in prep. for GCS.  Who knows what will work after my surgery.

Bring it on!  I'm down for this!

Hi Joi

After surgery a lot will change. You will be cut way back on your meds and no more spiro as you will not need it at all. My estrogen meds have dropped in half and they are still high when last checked 523 WOW it a wonder thing have been crazy with me. They are still trying to get me adjusted and will for sure in January 2016. I feel so good now and Love my choice to have SRS but for the ones who don't that is ok too as you are no less a women if you decide not to.


Hug's
Lyndsey

[KayXo]

With oral, not sublingual intake, there is a certain strain on the liver because it immediately breaks down part of the estrogen.

I don't believe that this puts a significant strain on the liver. Drugs like acetominophen, alcohol, excess sugar do however put on a strain. The effect is so small and insignificant with bio-identical estradiol that I would hesitate to put liver damage as one of the potential side-effects. Studies have also NOT shown this with bio-identical estradiol.

And clotting factors may rise

Yes but when one considers that birth control pills given to tens of thousands of women over the world have such little affect on risk of clotting, that these contain a type of estrogen that affects clotting to a much greater degree than bio estradiol (500 times, as much as 2500 times), I consider the effect with bio-identical small, especially considering doses prescribed are usually quite conservative.

My 2 cents.

After surgery a lot will change. You will be cut way back on your meds and no more spiro as you will not need it at all. My estrogen meds have dropped in half

Pre-surgery, T is suppressed to post-surgery/castrate levels. So before and after surgery, T remains low. Nothing changes hormonally. Why lower E then if T remains the same before and after surgery?

The rationale for lowering E post-surgery comes from way back when E was used ALONE and higher doses were prescribed to help suppress T sufficiently and since post-surgery, T is low, E can be reduced as it need not suppress T now. Times have changed. It's important to question why we do what we do.

[Lyndsey]

I don't believe that this puts a significant strain on the liver. Drugs like acetominophen, alcohol, excess sugar do however put on a strain. The effect is so small and insignificant with bio-identical estradiol that I would hesitate to put liver damage as one of the potential side-effects. Studies have also NOT shown this with bio-identical estradiol.

Yes but when one considers that birth control pills given to tens of thousands of women over the world have such little affect on risk of clotting, that these contain a type of estrogen that affects clotting to a much greater degree than bio estradiol (500 times, as much as 2500 times), I consider the effect with bio-identical small, especially considering doses prescribed are usually quite conservative.

My 2 cents.

Pre-surgery, T is suppressed to post-surgery/castrate levels. So before and after surgery, T remains low. Nothing changes hormonally. Why lower E then if T remains the same before and after surgery?

The rationale for lowering E post-surgery comes from way back when E was used ALONE and higher doses were prescribed to help suppress T sufficiently and since post-surgery, T is low, E can be reduced as it need not suppress T now. Times have changed. It's important to question why we do what we do.

Hi All

I think that it is very important that we question what we take and the amount that we put in our bodies. My Doctor and I talk all the time and If he is trying to get something right I may have blood tests once a month.
Lyndsey

[Joan]

This is something I've been thinking about since I got my latest blood work back last week.

I've had 2 years of estradiol injections, but the last few months I've been too busy to make some of the two-weekly appointments and I've been using patches to keep my levels up for as much as 10 days after the time an injection was due.

The latest levels came back as 37.9pg/ml for oestrogen, and 17.3pg/ml for testosterone. Both of these are actually within male ranges for my age, when my last tests I think were in female ranges.

Having said that the blood was drawn 2 weeks after the previous injection. Breast growth has been more than satisfactory, fat distribution to my hips has happened a bit, and my face has rounded out.

I wonder if after some time the body begins to reassert itself some and a certain amount of 'oestrogen intolerance' takes place. I think I read that somewhere, but I may be wrong.

Should I ask about upping the dosage?

[Lyndsey]

This is something I've been thinking about since I got my latest blood work back last week.

I've had 2 years of estradiol injections, but the last few months I've been too busy to make some of the two-weekly appointments and I've been using patches to keep my levels up for as much as 10 days after the time an injection was due.

The latest levels came back as 37.9pg/ml for oestrogen, and 17.3pg/ml for testosterone. Both of these are actually within male ranges for my age, when my last tests I think were in female ranges.

Having said that the blood was drawn 2 weeks after the previous injection. Breast growth has been more than satisfactory, fat distribution to my hips has happened a bit, and my face has rounded out.

I wonder if after some time the body begins to reassert itself some and a certain amount of 'oestrogen intolerance' takes place. I think I read that somewhere, but I may be wrong.

Should I ask about upping the dosage?

Hu Joan

Why doesn't your Doctor let you give yourself the shots mine does. I do them once a week it keeps it more even. Every two weeks is like a roller coaster ride. Way up than way down. The hell with that. I would ask him. I would be welling to bet he lets you do that.

Hug's Lyndsey

[Joan]

Hu Joan

Why doesn't your Doctor let you give yourself the shots mine does. I do them once a week it keeps it more even. Every two weeks is like a roller coaster ride. Way up than way down. The hell with that. I would ask him. I would be welling to bet he lets you do that.

Hug's Lyndsey

Hi Lyndsey, and thanks for that

I've been thinking about how to get around this, as it's an hour's drive to the clinic. I hadn't thought about self-injecting, but I may ask. I might also ask about an implant, though I'm not sure implants are available in Japan.

I can feel myself begin to slide a bit when I get to the end of the two weeks.

[Lyndsey]

Hi Lyndsey, and thanks for that

I've been thinking about how to get around this, as it's an hour's drive to the clinic. I hadn't thought about self-injecting, but I may ask. I might also ask about an implant, though I'm not sure implants are available in Japan.

I can feel myself begin to slide a bit when I get to the end of the two weeks.

Hi Joan

The implants are out my doctor told me that they have had a few issues with them. Self injecting is the way to go.I'm sure your Dr. will let you if you are not scared to do it yourself

Hug's
Lyndsey

[Laura_7]

Hi Lyndsey, and thanks for that

I've been thinking about how to get around this, as it's an hour's drive to the clinic. I hadn't thought about self-injecting, but I may ask. I might also ask about an implant, though I'm not sure implants are available in Japan.

I can feel myself begin to slide a bit when I get to the end of the two weeks.

Yes, two week cycles can be a big problem.
In the beginning there is a very high amount, and at the end a low phase, which might also effect mood.

You might ask for ten day or preferably weekly cycles.


hugs

[Lyndsey]

Ask for weekly cycles it has no low

lyndsey

[luna nyan]

Hi Joan

The implants are out my doctor told me that they have had a few issues with them. Self injecting is the way to go.I'm sure your Dr. will let you if you are not scared to do it yourself

Hug's
Lyndsey

It's an individual response and may also depend on how the implant was compounded.

My first one left me with a nice little lump for a while.   Consequent ones which were compounded differently have been great.

[Joan]

It's an individual response and may also depend on how the implant was compounded.

My first one left me with a nice little lump for a while.   Consequent ones which were compounded differently have been great.

That's interesting. I thought implants were the safest (low strain on liver) and most hassle-free (fewer visits than for IM) means of delivery. I didn't realise there were specific and unique problems.

[KayXo]

This is something I've been thinking about since I got my latest blood work back last week.

I've had 2 years of estradiol injections, but the last few months I've been too busy to make some of the two-weekly appointments and I've been using patches to keep my levels up for as much as 10 days after the time an injection was due.

The latest levels came back as 37.9pg/ml for oestrogen, and 17.3pg/ml for testosterone. Both of these are actually within male ranges for my age, when my last tests I think were in female ranges.

Having said that the blood was drawn 2 weeks after the previous injection. Breast growth has been more than satisfactory, fat distribution to my hips has happened a bit, and my face has rounded out.

I wonder if after some time the body begins to reassert itself some and a certain amount of 'oestrogen intolerance' takes place. I think I read that somewhere, but I may be wrong.

Should I ask about upping the dosage?

I'm not surprised your estradiol levels dropped as you skipped some of the injections, the blood was drawn 2 weeks after the injections and patches typically don't give much. I think it's important NOT to miss your injections when they are due.

If you measure levels 2-3 days after the injection, you will surely get a VERY different result. So levels don't really say much. You seem to be doing good so that's what's most important, I think.

Testosterone, I think, is in ng/dl, no?

[Joan]

I'm not surprised your estradiol levels dropped as you skipped some of the injections, the blood was drawn 2 weeks after the injections and patches typically don't give much. I think it's important NOT to miss your injections when they are due.

If you measure levels 2-3 days after the injection, you will surely get a VERY different result. So levels don't really say much. You seem to be doing good so that's what's most important, I think.

Testosterone, I think, is in ng/dl, no?

Hi Kay, and thanks for that.

The testosterone level is definitely pg/ml. I guess something down there is putting up a fight

I try not to miss injections, but between my schedule and the clinic opening times sometimes I just can't find the time.

[Lyndsey]

Hey All

It's rather funny. Before SRS I took spiro to knock out the T and my dose of estrogen now I take less than half the estrogen and they are giving me T cream so as to bring it back up and WOW increase libido. Go figure! Crazy.


Lyndsey

[DanaDane]

I'm 9 mos. into cross sex hormone therapy.  I've been on the patch.  Initially one, then two, then three.  Total E levels only moved from 31 at 90 days (one patch)  42 at 120 days (2 patches) 76 at 180 days (3 patches). Little feminization.
Some breast tenderness, mental changes, body odor. T is very low.  My endo is taking me off the patches in favor of injections.  His target was around 200.

8 months 15 days in. 

Dr has had me on patches since day one.  2 at a time changed twice a week.. My E went from <20 to 80 to 252.  I see hardly anything when it comes to physical changes.  Some breasts.  Face appears softer, but that's about it. 

Will be seeing a new Dr next month.  I'm curious to see what they'll have to say.

[Lyndsey]

8 months 15 days in. 

Dr has had me on patches since day one.  2 at a time changed twice a week.. My E went from <20 to 80 to 252.  I see hardly anything when it comes to physical changes.  Some breasts.  Face appears softer, but that's about it. 

Will be seeing a new Dr next month.  I'm curious to see what they'll have to say.

Hi All

From My experience My Doctor has put me on 1 time a week injections and it has remained very stable. I seam to have no ups and downs. But when the estrogen went threw the roof a month after surgery I have to say that I was and emotional basket case. I could cry if someone even looked at me wrong. After he got me down to 280 I have been feeling great. Wow what a ride. LOL! 

Hug's Lyndsey

[Laura_7]

8 months 15 days in. 

Dr has had me on patches since day one.  2 at a time changed twice a week.. My E went from <20 to 80 to 252.  I see hardly anything when it comes to physical changes.  Some breasts.  Face appears softer, but that's about it. 

Will be seeing a new Dr next month.  I'm curious to see what they'll have to say.

If e is pg/ml levels should be good.
But its not all levels, internal applicaion ike injections works better for some people.
How are t levels ? They might stand in the way of some feminization...


hugs

[KayXo]

The testosterone level is definitely pg/ml.

Is this free testosterone, bio-available testosterone or total testosterone?

It's rather funny. Before SRS I took spiro to knock out the T and my dose of estrogen now I take less than half the estrogen and they are giving me T cream so as to bring it back up and WOW increase libido. Go figure! Crazy.

Other than an increase in libido, what other effects (positive and/or negative) have you noticed? How long have you been on the cream? Post-op, the only testosterone that we produce comes from adrenal glands, in other words, very low.

[Lyndsey]

Is this free testosterone, bio-available testosterone or total testosterone?

Other than an increase in libido, what other effects (positive and/or negative) have you noticed? How long have you been on the cream? Post-op, the only testosterone that we produce comes from adrenal glands, in other words, very low.

Hi Girls

My levels of testosterone were only .04  now they are 4.0  My Estrogen is now 323 down from 523

I feel great and my boy friend like it too as I have been getting very frisky. LOL! 

Hug's
Lyndsey

[Joan]

Is this free testosterone, bio-available testosterone or total testosterone?

Hi Kay

That's free testosterone.