Is the MTF GRS in Thailand better than the one in North America?

[Jenna Marie]

I can't speak for other surgeons... but I know Brassard had adequate material to get 5.5-6" of depth with every woman except the one who was less than 1" erect (she had to have a small skin graft from her thigh, but she did get her depth as well). I'm not sure how he managed it, either, but I can at least say that in my pre-op exam he judged my likely depth by examining the donor material while flaccid and stretching it out by hand. (That was HORRIBLE. At least it was over quickly.)

[Laura_7]

I know that Chett. recommends "grafts" based upon allot of the posts from his patients that I have encountered.

An earlier comment regarding donor material has me wondering.  Just what is considered adequate donor material?

I have what would be considered a "partial" or "incomplete" circumcision.  I presume that this would be somewhat advantageous in the construction of the "clitoral" hood (although no one has ever confirmed this for me).

And with regard to the "other donor material" As erections are a distant memory -  How does one calculate "adequate"?
Is it number the of inches or centimeters in the flaccid state that is the determinant?

Seems kinda late in the "game" (for me) to be posing these questions, but in fact, it looks like we don't get to find out until we're front & center with our surgeon just days before surgery.     

Some knead the ... thing ... a bit and stretch it...

there are methods to regrow foreskin on wikipedia...

and some surgeons accept photos of the state now and make comments...

and many say they will use skin grafts if necessary...


hugs

[iKate]

What about:
-Brassard
-Suporn
-Chett
-Kamol, Sanguan    ?

If the donor material is small often docs use a skin graft.
And some people ... work ... a few minutes a day  .. a bit on donor material to add a bit of length.


hugs

I don't know about Brassard because I am diabetic and he seems averse to working on diabetics. I am not seriously diabetic though (A1C of 6 or slightly less) and I manage it well but I don't know. His requirements are rather strict health wise.

Suporn or Chett maybe. The whole chonburi organ thing seems a bit odd to me but I guess he (suporn) knows what he's doing.

Yeah I need to work on the donor material again even if it sickens me to even touch it.

[Lagertha]

Suporn or Chett maybe. The whole chonburi organ thing seems a bit odd to me but I guess he (suporn) knows what he's doing.

Turns out Chettawut also makes chonburi organ (surely he doesn't call it that..).

[Joi]

 I know that his thread has drifted a bit from it's "original" intent but I guess we're not breaking any rules by expanding on it.

Just looking for feedback.

Would one whose donor material fell into the range of 4 inches. flaccid and 6 inches erect be considered adequate enough donor material to preclude the necessity of a "graft" ?

[Patti]

That's a good question that I would like to see answered. I'm nowhere near ready for this but compiling answers helps.

I know that his thread has drifted a bit from it's "original" intent but I guess we're not breaking any rules by expanding on it.

Just looking for feedback.

Would one whose donor material fell into the range of 4 inches. flaccid and 6 inches erect be considered adequate enough donor material to preclude the necessity of a "graft" ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lagertha]

I know that his thread has drifted a bit from it's "original" intent but I guess we're not breaking any rules by expanding on it.

Just looking for feedback.

Would one whose donor material fell into the range of 4 inches. flaccid and 6 inches erect be considered adequate enough donor material to preclude the necessity of a "graft" ?

You are having your surgery with dr. Chettawut. Penis size doesn't matter because depth of neovaginal wall isn't made from penile skin and isn't dependant on penis size. Surface of scrotal skin will determine whether it is enough for neovaginal wall on it's own, or a surgeon will have to use additional skin graft from groin. Only your surgeon will be able to give you that answer after the examination.

[Joi]

Thanks Lagertha!

It's quite likely that a graft will be on the agenda for me.  Long term HRT takes a toll on the "huevos" & that in turn leads to a reduction in the size of the scrotal sack.  Perhaps this would have been better explained if using a US based surgeon and having had an in person visit well before the date of the surgery.  As is my case and that of many others, can't just drop in for an appointment with Dr. Tulayaphanich anytime. 

Hugz!

[Serenation]

Depends where you go Joi,  Suporn and Chett will do graft no matter what, because they like to use the penile skin elsewhere.

I don't think a western surgeon would need to graft with the measurements you gave. They will tell you beforehand in a consult anyway. I had a graft it's nothing to worry about it really. Only things I ever noticed were it produced more scar tissue and at a guess made dilation more difficult.

I would say that's why chett and suporn have such different dilation requirements than most western surgeons.

[Joi]

Thanks for your input Serenation!

I think that I "finally" understanding the procedure better.  Good thing because it happens next week. I'll be ready for the graft  ($cha'ching$).  I'm confident that things will be fine.

Hugz!

[ShadowCharms]

I've been thinking about what my priorities are in terms of the surgery, and I think they matter to me in this order (most important to least important):

Appearance
Sensation
Lubrication
Depth

I'm not into men, so I don't know how much depth matters for me. Lubrication seems important because I don't want to be uncomfortable all the time. Sensation would be nice because I've never really been able to have a sexual experience that wasn't riddled with dysphoria, and I think that would be really good for me to have one. I'm not much of a sexual person though, so if I didn't have a lot of sensation, I could learn to live with that. Appearance, of course, would be nice so that I can feel a bit more normal.

I assume that appearance isn't a huge concern regardless of who I go with (provided that they are experienced). As far as I can tell, the north american surgeons all seem to do something that's a bit cleaner and more tucked in than how the majority of cis women look, but that is not an unnatural look for a cis woman to have. I'm actually okay with the smaller labia minora look. I'm worried that I will find it too tidy, but maybe it won't matter to me.

I'm currently considering Dr. McGinn as my top choice. Does anyone know how her surgeries tend to measure up against Suporn and Chett and  in terms of sensation and lubrication?

[ShadowCharms]

The problem is that what is "better" differs from person to person. For example, I didn't care too much about depth; the Thai surgeons generally guarantee more depth (with a more invasive surgery technique), but that's not better for me. Whereas I also like smaller inner labia and better defined outer labia, which the Thai results generally seem to trend *against*; again, not better for me. So which is better is going to come down to what you want most. You may want to figure that out first, then go shopping for the surgeon who  most reliably produces in the area that is your #1 priority.

Everyone has to prioritize depth, sensation, function, and aesthetics (and sometimes specifics of how we want it to look or function). I cared most about sensation and function, and then aesthetics, and then depth. So I picked a surgeon with a solid track record in producing the first three and a known tendency to achieve acceptable depth and call it good, and I was satisfied. (I also cared a lot about getting adequate aftercare - which the Thai surgeons are in fact known for doing excellently as well - because I believed the first couple weeks post-op can influence the final result substantially and also I wanted the peace of mind. And I found a surgeon who did 10 days of aftercare [first 2-3 in a hospital, remainder in a recovery residence with 24/7 resident nurses on duty].)

Would you be comfortable with telling me who you went with? It sounds like you wanted a lot of the same things I do.

[Jenna Marie]

ShadowCharms : I went to Brassard. I was sensate from the moment I woke up and orgasmic in my sleep at 3 weeks post-op, so I exceeded my best hopes in terms of sensation. Functionally, I have adequate depth, can accommodate the largest dilator, and do self-lubricate. In terms of aesthetics, I really lucked out - I've had a gynecologist and some ER doctors who thought I was cis. I'm generally very pleased with the results.

He definitely does do the "tidier" look, but it was not too extreme for me; I've seen enough cis vulvas that looked similar to be comfortable with it.  Heck, these days, some cis women with larger inner labia are paying plastic surgeons to *get* that look... (I do like that he used some leftover urethra to give me pink, moist mucosal tissue on the inside of the inner labia and clitoral hood, which looks very natural.)

The other thing is, within the general range of cis norms, once you're done and healed up it's yours, you know? I figure I had a little more input than the average cis woman, but not by much, and just like she has to learn to live with what nature gave her, I see what I ended up with as unique and all mine. I have a couple of quirks I don't like, but so does my wife.

[judithlynn]

Hi Lagertha;
Based on your criteria who diode you choose?
Judith

[Lagertha]

Hi Lagertha;
Based on your criteria who diode you choose?
Judith

I'm having my surgery with dr. Suporn.

[lisarenee]

From what I have heard (second hand), the Thai surgeons (namely Suporn) give more depth. That said, comparing the 2 pictures I was able to find of Suporn's work with what I've seen for American (Sinclair) and Canadian (Brassard) surgeons, the North American surgeons seem to produce more aesthetically pleasing results in line with what I would want my vagina to look like. I guess its a tradeoff. Do you want depth (Thailand), cosmetics (USA), or sensation ()

[AnonyMs]

From what I have heard (second hand), the Thai surgeons (namely Suporn) give more depth. That said, comparing the 2 pictures I was able to find of Suporn's work with what I've seen for American (Sinclair) and Canadian (Brassard) surgeons, the North American surgeons seem to produce more aesthetically pleasing results in line with what I would want my vagina to look like. I guess its a tradeoff. Do you want depth (Thailand), cosmetics (USA), or sensation ()

Its a pity we can't post links here as I've seen a few more than that, and in those Suporn's aesthetics look far better than Brassard's.

[Laura_7]

Its a pity we can't post links here as I've seen a few more than that, and in those Suporn's aesthetics look far better than Brassard's.

You could have a look here :
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69392.msg929639.html#msg929639

There are pictures of results from Brassard, some years old but according to descriptions he strives for consistency and results might still be the same.

Imo its also a matter of liking : more genereous labia or a more tidy look.

Additionally imo you might ask the surgeon. Its possible they can make some changes in their usual results, like generating more generours labia if desired. They can give no guarantees though.


hugs

[lisarenee]

Its a pity we can't post links here as I've seen a few more than that, and in those Suporn's aesthetics look far better than Brassard's.

Part of the problem (causing the dearth of good images) seems to be Suporn's focus on depth. I found a lot of images, but in all but 3 of them, the lips are being manually pulled apart or a rod is stuck inside to show "how deep" the vagina is. Of the remaining 3, one was taken from too far away and made too small to see anything to speak of and the other 2 were taken at odd angles.

[AnonyMs]

Part of the problem (causing the dearth of good images) seems to be Suporn's focus on depth. I found a lot of images, but in all but 3 of them, the lips are being manually pulled apart or a rod is stuck inside to show "how deep" the vagina is. Of the remaining 3, one was taken from too far away and made too small to see anything to speak of and the other 2 were taken at odd angles.

I guess you're talking about the images on Suporn's site. I'd agree they are not very useful, but there's quite a few others available on Internet. From everything I've heard is does focus a great deal on aesthetics. I'll send you a PM.