Had surgery with Yeson this morning

[iKate]

Yeah I coughed like twice very gently during that 7 days and I'm fine.

[Ritana]

Yeah I coughed like twice very gently during that 7 days and I'm fine.

Ikate,

I remember you saying in one of your posts that pitch is not that important in passability, that other aspects of the voice such as timber, fluctuation and psorody as even more important than pitch. You mentioned the example of some post-vfs girls on here who could reach 250 hrz but still fail to pass on the phone.

I have been thinking about that, and I think you are actually right! I tried once (for a whole day) using my comfortable pitch on the phone (170 hrz). Bear in mind my former speech therapist told me my speech pattern is very feminine.   I managed to pass just fine even though it is still below the lowest minimum female pitch (180 hrz). I, nonetheless, got a couple of questions from customers enquiring whether I was a man or a woman.  That freaked the hell out of me and got me to go back straining. Needless to say, I have almost never rested my voice since then until i had my recent vfs with Yeson.

Hopefully when I heal, I will never have to strain again.

Rita

[iKate]

Ikate,

I remember you saying in one of your posts that pitch is not that important in passability, that other aspects of the voice such as timber, fluctuation and psorody as even more important than pitch. You mentioned the example of some post-vfs girls on here who could reach 250 hrz but still fail to pass on the phone.

I have been thinking about that, and I think you are actually right! I tried once (for a whole day) using my comfortable pitch on the phone (170 hrz). Bear in mind my former speech therapist told me my speech pattern is very feminine.   I managed to pass just fine even though it is still below the lowest minimum female pitch (180 hrz). I, nonetheless, got a couple of questions from customers enquiring whether I was a man or a woman.  That freaked the hell out of me and got me to go back straining. Needless to say, I have almost never rested my voice since then until i had my recent vfs with Yeson.

Hopefully when I heal, I will never have to strain again.

Rita

Pitch is one of several factors. There is a lot of emphasis on pitch when some girls need to work on prosody and resonance. That's not to say high pitch isn't good but it doesn't necessarily imply "pass."

Like passing in general it's one component of an overall picture.

In my own experience with transition I believe I have found my zen with passing. I'm not drop dead gorgeous but I'm not unpassable. My mannerisms and voice go a very long way. I don't dress like a teenager, I dress like someone my age +/- 5-10 years. I have nature's lottery on my side for a few things like not being overly big (small to medium size 4 to 6 clothing fits me well).

That said, I'm not saying you need to dress any particular way. Find your style. I'm still exploring and finding mine but I find a lot of things I'm comfortable with.

But overall, confidence and owning my presentation is what helps me. I step into the world unafraid and certain. This is why I tackled my voice first and foremost. A voice can make or break you. It is the swing vote in people's minds when they are making a decision about  figuring out your gender.

The person with 250+ Hz did have a lot of resonance and prosody issues. She did find herself well on her way to fixing them which is good, but this underscores why we shouldn't get too hung up on playing "Hertz wars."

What tipped it for me was a grocery store clerk who immediately switched to "Sir" after calling me "ma'am" after I responded to her. It was under her breath as if she felt deceived or something. I went home and cried and decided then and there that I was getting surgery. I actually had an initial session with a speech therapist and canceled it.

[Ritana]

I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice,  instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!

May I ask how many hertz exactly you have gained post op?

[iKate]

I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice,  instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!

May I ask how many hertz exactly you have gained post op?

I am kind of unsure how many exactly because my voice varies all over the place. Generally though I get 220Hz - 230Hz average pitch and I started out at 130Hz. So I would say around 80-100Hz.

[Ritana]

Waooo, incredible!!! That's why your voice sound so feminine hun!! Well done!

[iKate]

Waooo, incredible!!! That's why your voice sound so feminine hun!! Well done!

Thanks but as I said, the timbre made more of a difference. The fact that the lower male tones are gone, basically.

[Ritana]

You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?

Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.

[iKate]

You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?

Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.

Timbre is a factor in prosody. However when most MTFs refer to prosody they really mean feminine speech patterns such as varying pitch and cadence.

[anjaq]

In my own experience with transition I believe I have found my zen with passing. I'm not drop dead gorgeous but I'm not unpassable. My mannerisms and voice go a very long way. I don't dress like a teenager, I dress like someone my age +/- 5-10 years. ......
That said, I'm not saying you need to dress any particular way. Find your style. I'm still exploring and finding mine but I find a lot of things I'm comfortable with.

But overall, confidence and owning my presentation is what helps me. I step into the world unafraid and certain. This is why I tackled my voice first and foremost.

I totally agree. I think what boosted my "passing" after voice surgery was only part because of actually speaking in a female voice, but the confidence that my voice is female all the time. Before, people would stare occasionally. Even if I did not say a word. That was because I was uncertain, afraid - and people picked up on that. Knowing that if I speak, my voice would rather swing peoples perception to the right side gave me confidence, which I radiate now and I don't get stares anymore.
This goes so far as to change my patterns of presentation. I started actually wearing feminine clothing and shoes and all sorts of things I did not really have the confidence to do for years.

I suppose my untrained preop voice was in the upper male range. I have always strained to achieve 100% passabiliy on the phone. I now realise the damage I have done to my voice! I should have started with the voice,  instead of leavibg it till a few years post SRS!

Yes - thats really an issue. Working with a voice that has to be forced for years is not good for the voice. At a high enough starting pitch, some techniques can be learned that make the voice totall female without surgery, but if pitch is too low, those have a hard time. I started at something like 120 Hz and managed to keep 160 Hz most of the time but even that put a strain on my voice. When I was younger, I probably did 180 Hz most of the time, but after years of abuse, the pitch dropped.

You.mean what made the biggest change is that those lower notes that contribute into the prosody have virtually disappeared, which means your timber has become more feminine ?

Honestly, I used to be surprised at how I could pass on the phone with 170 hrtz (without straining). I guess my intonation and prosody helped but I was on the edge of sounding male so I opted for a corrective surgery.

Yes, the lower parts of the spectrum are gone. If you look at al the frequencies that swing in a voice, there is always low and high ones and then in the middle the main one, which is what people perceive as your pitch. And with the surgery, the lower ones are less and the higher ones are more, thus changing the timbre of the voice, even at lower pitches.
It totally is ok to be at 170 Hz - thats still a female pitch. My voice is female even if I go down to 160 or even 150 Hz, although it sounds like I am having some issue with my voice then. My speech therapist said, she herself has a pitch variety of down to 130 Hz if she uses her full spectrum when reading a theatre piece - but her average pitch is at the 190 Hz...

So I think as long as pitch is always >130 Hz and almost always >150 Hz and the other parameters are good, its perceived the right way.

[Ritana]

Hey girls,

Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!

I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds. 

Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!

Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?

Rita

[barbie]

Hey girls,

Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!

I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds. 

Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!

Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?

Rita

Congrats on your safe trip and VFS.

North Korea? We have heard that kind of threat nearly every week during the past 60 years. The problem is now few S. Koreans pay attention to it. Their nuke threat is not real one, but political one aiming at the inner N. Korean people, the U.S., Japan and the world, not to S. Korea where they can anyway attack with traditional weapons such as artillery.

barbie~~

[iKate]

Hey girls,

Another update from me: I am now back home after 26 hour journey! I am so glad I made it back safely!

I woke up this morning and sneezed a couple of times. It was so powerful that it sounded like a combination of a sneeze and a cough at the same time. I couldn't hold it, but I made sure I kept my louth wide open during the process to let more air escape and avoid/minimise damage to vocal folds. 

Also, when I was on the place, I accidentally spoke to a lady who was sitting next to me. At the end of the flight, she said "nice to meet you" and I tried to say "nice to meet you too"!!!

Did any accidental speakibg whispering happen to you during the first month recovery period, girls?

Rita

We've all done it. Nothing to worry about.

[anjaq]

No worries about the few words, just try to avoid it. When I was at Phil house, the toilet was flowing over for the third time in 2 days and I was angry about it and gestured something to my friend and she asked me if that stupid toilet was overflowing again, that this is impossible and I said "Yeeeessss"! - which was really stupid and I shut up immediately. Jessie wrote me back as a reply to my concerned message though that it is not so bad as long as I dont have any sharp pain, and after the initial 7 days its even allowed to say 3 words a day, in emergencies.

[Ritana]

Oh my God, you had a toilet flood at Phil House? It must have been vile!

[Lara1969]

It is interesting, Dr. Haben allowed me to start speaking after one week. Dr. Kim is requesting one month of voice rest. I know both surgeries are a little bit different.
Dr. Haben only said the less I speak until end of week the four the faster healing will be. But there is no more permanent damage possible. Four weeks voice rest would be impossible for me as working mom.

[iKate]

Four weeks voice rest would be impossible for me as working mom.

I also am a working mom but I don't really have a problem staying silent as I work behind a computer most of the day.

[Ritana]

Lara, I listened your one month post-op recording, and I'm qfraid if I were you, I would rest my voice for another 2 weeks in order to avoid any damage. I know it's hard but put it this way: You paid a lot of money for the surgery in order to achieve the voice you desire. You don't wanna waste all this money just another short peroiod of rest.

[anjaq]

Thats what i thought too - I invested a lot of money plus i only have one voice, so I really wanted the best result I can get and not risk it. I know that many of the bad results one hears in Germany are not just because the surgeons are not doing the best work possible, but also because the patients are allowed to speak normally after a week, and then they also smoke soon after the surgery. This is especially a problem, I believe , if the sutures are made with the less strong dissolving threads and the suture is done with laser (which in my opinion takes longer to really fuse back together). Its not that this would not work, but I would rather be even more cauteous. After all, two patients of Dr Haben reported that they had their suture damaged in the first 8 weeks... which is about the time period Dr Kim recommends a total voice rest and later a strong limitation on voice use.

[Ritana]

You are absolutely right! I am going to try a 2-month rest with. The second month, I will only speak in emergency situations  and see how the cookie crumbles.