The old premarin( equine conjugated estrogens) for transitioning?

[fefi]

Hi everybody, as I do not see the progress that I'd like to see with estradiol pills, I consulted a gynecologist which is a friend of the family and has many years of treating women. I was amazed when I told him my situation, he immediately said that premarin( equine conjugated estrogens)  would be the best choice for  a transgender person. He told me that at a very low dose I would see physical changes , and he also told me that maybe I would see  my changes but I do not feel well with the drug, very strange!!!! He told me that at least premarin is stronger than estradiol. Any of you has experienced hrt with premarin? Are there benefits in taking the drug?

[SophieD]

I've never heard of such a thing, and have understood that premarin brings higher risks than bioidentical estradiol.  I'd suggest getting a second opinion from an informed physician.

[Laura_7]

Due to there being components present that are not identical with what a human body expects many people say there are much more side effects.

Imo using bioidentical estrogen also depends on the method of delivery.
If it is swallowed, it is possible the liver produces some unwanted estrogens like estrone, which might not be helpful for feminization.

It is possible to take micronized bioidentical estrogen sublingually, where it bypasses the liver with intake.
Its supposed to be less straining on the liver and less causing clotting factors.
For unknown reasons if swallowed the liver presumes an internal leak and raises clotting factors.

With sublingual intake, levels might rise fast, and drop a few hours later. Its also more effective, because if taken orally a part of the substance is taken apart by the liver.
So spreading the daily dose in a few small doses instead of two big ones might help.
Another idea might be to use one skin patch for steady levels and pills.

There are other forms of intake.
Injections and implants are supposed to be very effective.
With both it is possible to drive the levels of estrogen well into the female range, above 2-300pg/ml, which drives down t as well into the female range, without anti androgens. Its a well known effect and considered safe only with implants and injections.

You might additionally think about bioidentical progesterone.
Its supposed to help with breast development, might even out some side effects of estrogen and has some anti androgen effects.
Many people say it helped with form, changing from a conical to a more rounder one. It also stimulates growth of epithelial tissue and lobule-alveolar systems in the breasts .


Just talk this all through with your doctor. Its possible there are a few new aspects for them included.


hugs

[Dena]

When I started my transition, only two natural compounds were available, Femogen and Premarin. I started with Femogen and little happened. The other girls were getting great results with Premarin so I switched to that. I was on it about 5 years before surgery at a high dosage and post surgical my dosage was quartered. The end results are breast that are just a little larger than an A cup. My only conclusion is that my body is somewhat resistant to both male and female hormones and short of surgical solutions, I should become comfortable with a somewhat boyish figure.

I suspect Premarin may be a bit more dangerous at high dosages that what is available today but it may have been much safer than the synthetics that were available when I started my transition. I think the real problem is the most effective way to administer estrogen is by injection. Oral tends to wash out of the system quite fast or never reaches the levels that injections provide.

The difference with Premarin is that it's a combination of several estrogens instead of just one. I don't know if the additional estrogens make a difference or if just a single estrogen is all that's required. Also consider that after 5 years I continued to develop and went from a AA cup to a full A cup.

[KayXo]

he immediately said that premarin( equine conjugated estrogens)  would be the best choice for  a transgender person

I'm afraid your doctor is mistaken. Studies have confirmed Premarin to affect clotting to a greater extent than bio-identical estradiol, hence be more risky for one's health while both have similar effects in the body, in terms of feminization, at corresponding doses which I cannot divulge. X mg of Premarin is the equivalent of Y mg of estradiol for feminization.

There is absolutely no advantage to taking Premarin, rather it's exactly the opposite. Think about it...do ciswomen develop breasts, curves, etc with Premarin (horse urine estrogen) or with bio-identical estradiol? Obviously estradiol so why shouldn't you be able to? Your doctor makes no sense.

[Denjin]

Premarin is much more dangerous than 'newer' hormone replacements.  The original studies that showed a higher incidence of strokes and other side effects were performed on patients who were on premarin (and prempro, too).  I think it's sort of old school for a doctor to recommend it. Also, I saw a doctor who scared me with a story about a transwoman who was on premarin for years and basically killed her liver (no idea on her backstory or anything).

When I first started I was on premarin for a short while, but did move off it to more bio identical options which worked better for me.

[AnonyMs]

I'm sure premarin is just wonderful if you're a horse.

Its not the same as human estrogen and why anyone would recommended it when human estrogen is so readily available is beyond me.

You'd think doctors would be above that kind of idiocy, but I've also come across one who prescribes it in Sydney. I don't go that entire medical practice anymore.

[Gertrude]

I'm sure premarin is just wonderful if you're a horse.

Its not the same as human estrogen and why anyone would recommended it when human estrogen is so readily available is beyond me.

You'd think doctors would be above that kind of idiocy, but I've also come across one who prescribes it in Sydney. I don't go that entire medical practice anymore.

Doctors aren't pharmacologists nor even pharmacists when it comes to drug knowledge and their actions/interactions.


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[kaitylynn]

The first time on HRT, I used Premarin and the results were indeed good.  The benefit was availability at the time, mid 90's.  I had also used it short term in the 80's but that is another tail for another time.

I honestly think I have experienced faster results with Estradiol transdermally this time around.

[Serenation]

I was on premarin & progesterone for many years and I used to go through a tonne of it because you need to take way more than menopausal amount. When it got taken off the PBS (Australia) It was uneconomical to use any more and I got put on something else.

I don't think it was anything special, it's just what we used back then.

[Laura_7]

Doctors aren't pharmacologists nor even pharmacists when it comes to drug knowledge and their actions/interactions.

No.
But they are advised sometimes by pharmacologists which may have a higher margin on non bioidentical products because they are copyrighted.

This is why it is important for everyone to get informed in ones own best interest.
This is always a good idea.
Then the facts can be discussed.


hugs

[KayXo]

I was on premarin & progesterone for many years

The combined pill contains Premarin and MEDROXYPROGESTERONE ACETATE. It is called Prempro. This does not contain progesterone but a progestin.

[fefi]

Thanks to all you girls for the information and experiences you had with premarin. Besides it is really more expensive than bio identical estradiol, I think my doctor is an old person, and he really did not explain why I would feminize better On premarin than estradiol. The other deal is that I'm taking estradiol sublingually but as Laura_7 said the pills I'm taking contain estradiol valerate but not hemihydrate, they are the same pills so you can imagine than estrofem, rounded and very small , but mine are white. The doctor told me that taking my estradiol valerate pills under the tongue works perfectly, and enters more quickly into the bloodstream, just that.
At least I have been using this method from years and in my last liver test it was perfect. Maybe I will talk with my doctor if I increase the dose, but sublingual method is the one I have felt the best. IM injections are not available in my country, and patches come in very low dose and they are very expensive too.
I miss estrofem pills, I used to take them, but unfortunately they were discontinued. The pills that are only available now are progynova and Ronfase both of them containing estradiol valerate as the active ingredient. I have read old post here in the forum of girls taking progynova sublingually and with good results, and they are very coated pills, not easy to dissolve, so that is a mystery too.
No premarin for the moment, I'm sure of that!!!!

[Gertrude]

No.
But they are advised sometimes by pharmacologists which may have a higher margin on non bioidentical products because they are copyrighted.

This is why it is important for everyone to get informed in ones own best interest.
This is always a good idea.
Then the facts can be discussed.


hugs

More likely advised by a pharmaceutical salesperson.

[Serenation]

The combined pill contains Premarin and MEDROXYPROGESTERONE ACETATE. It is called Prempro. This does not contain progesterone but a progestin.

Yeah my premarin and progesterone came in seperate boxes, I honestly cannot remember the brand of progesterone

[iKate]

I know an older (60s) Trans woman who swears by Premarin and Will not take bio identicals.

[Dena]

Yeah my premarin and progesterone came in seperate boxes, I honestly cannot remember the brand of progesterone

I was on premarin and Provera. Provera was pretty cheap with most of the cost being the premarin.