Considering non transitioning due to relationship availability

[KarlMars]

I want transition, but I am now having doubts about transitioning due to relationships I could easily get into as woman and couldn't as a trans male. I would still have male gender expression (hair, clothes, possibly still change my name to a male one). There are men who like me and I like them who want a girlfriend, but are into butch women and would only be interested in me as a friend if I became male.

I'm rarely a person to even consider changing my mind because of the way others view me.

Has anyone else ever considered not transitioning for this reason?

[KarlMars]

I want transition, but I am now having doubts about transitioning due to relationships I could easily get into as woman and couldn't as a trans male. I would still have male gender expression (hair, clothes, possibly still change my name to a male one). There are men who like me and I like them who want a girlfriend, but are into butch women and would only be interested in me as a friend if I became male.

I'm rarely a person to even consider changing my mind because of the way others view me.

Has anyone else ever considered not transitioning for this reason?

I would like to add that I think there are also people who will be less kind to me if I was a man. What do you think of that part?

[FTMax]

I would never, ever consider not transitioning due to a decrease in romantic prospects. Frankly, if the choice was transition and stay single for my whole life or not transition and have a great relationship, I'd choose to transition and stay single. I can't be happy with someone else unless I'm happy with me.

At the end of the day, you've got you. Relationships come and go. Don't sacrifice yourself to please someone else. The right person would care about you no matter what gender you were born as or how you present. And if they don't, then they probably aren't the right person.

I wouldn't say that people are less kind to me as a man. A lot more blunt perhaps, but I actually appreciate that.

[stephaniec]

for me transition and loneliness was a far better choice than the loneliness of 40 years of having no one.

[Denise]

I can relate.  But I'm still transitioning.  You never know what life will bring.

[Hikari]

Sure, I could probably have got into relationships easier certainly had I not transitioned, but you know, I have not really been single for all that long at all since I transitioned. I was certain that no other woman would want to be with a woman like me, especially due to the fact I simply cannot afford healthcare to get my my parts corrected, but I was very wrong.

Turns out it doesn't really make things that much more difficult so long as you are open about everything. I think perhaps we think the grass is greener too often, and that had x or y been different the result with the relationship or lack thereof would be different but, we can't ever really know that. So do what makes you happy first, because ultimately if you are happy you will be much more attractive to others.

[sparrow]

I think a lot of us second-guess our transition because of how it will impact our abilities to form and maintain relationships... romantic and otherwise.  It hurt my wife, and I tried to cram it into a dark hole and never look at it again... but it kept coming up and eventually it got to the point where I knew I couldn't be happy without transitioning.  I was worried that she'd leave me, and I still worry that we'll split (not because of gender) and I'll be lonely...  but my conclusion remains the same: I can't be happy without living my truth.  I know that I might not be happy regardless... but at least happiness is a possibility.

[Kylo]

No, not really.

I'm already in a relationship and had another one before that and I don't think I'd be missing much with my luck. That's not to say I dislike my partner, but relationships are very hard work for some people, and I am one of those people. If I weigh up the lived experiences of romantic relationships including their diminished sexual enjoyment for me as a guy without a penis, it's probably not worth sacrificing transition for.

The only reason I thought twice about transitioning was not the prospects of another human being in my life, but that I already had one in my life and I knew it would impact them unpleasantly. I felt a certain responsibility toward this man who has helped me out in my life and who I tried to make a good partnership with. Otherwise, if he were not already my concern, I would just go for it. I doubt sex will ever be a particularly enjoyable affair for me personally, and since most romantic relationships and expectations revolve around it, "that's that" as they say.

[Laura_7]

Here are a few things that may change if you transition:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/male-privilege-trans-men/

If you come more into yourself its possible you gain in personality and in aura, attracting people who really fit you.
Its possible its less people but its also possible they are a better fit.


*hugs*

[KarynMcD]

You never know what life will bring.

Exactly. It was only after I started transitioning that I found the perfect person.

[KarlMars]

No, not really.

I'm already in a relationship and had another one before that and I don't think I'd be missing much with my luck. That's not to say I dislike my partner, but relationships are very hard work for some people, and I am one of those people. If I weigh up the lived experiences of romantic relationships including their diminished sexual enjoyment for me as a guy without a penis, it's probably not worth sacrificing transition for.

The only reason I thought twice about transitioning was not the prospects of another human being in my life, but that I already had one in my life and I knew it would impact them unpleasantly. I felt a certain responsibility toward this man who has helped me out in my life and who I tried to make a good partnership with. Otherwise, if he were not already my concern, I would just go for it. I doubt sex will ever be a particularly enjoyable affair for me personally, and since most romantic relationships and expectations revolve around it, "that's that" as they say.

You mean you have already transitioned and it has or it hasn't affected your relationship. Relationships are hard for me too, but it's because I'm picky and don't want to give. How could you be in a relationship wish someone you dislike. Did you mean you dislike your current partner?. I'm glad to hear you have a partner who has helped you in your life. Why are you ambivalent towards him?

It's not about sex with me. I already don't care about the sexual aspect of a relationship and never will. I like it when you share your point of view and enjoy seeing your cynical, high reasoning personality around the forums.

[KarlMars]

Here are a few things that may change if you transition:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/male-privilege-trans-men/

If you come more into yourself its possible you gain in personality and in aura, attracting people who really fit you.
Its possible its less people but its also possible they are a better fit.


*hugs*

One of the ones who likes me likes me as a woman and wouldn't as a male. I don't want to be liked just because I'm an attractive female- which is why the guy does. Doesn't this article put you down as a woman? This article isn't particularly geared toward me. I'm sure I'll still be a male feminist, but thanks anyway, Linda.

[ryokohimura]

I feel as a woman, I'm more pleasant to deal with. Happier, calmer, less of a target to the wrong people. If I had stayed male, it wouldn't have been fair to myself or any potential partner. I also don't feel like I "need" someone. I don't need a partner to complete who I am. That's just my opinion as my past relationships were never very healthy and all had that aire to them.

[KarlMars]

I feel as a woman, I'm more pleasant to deal with. Happier, calmer, less of a target to the wrong people. If I had stayed male, it wouldn't have been fair to myself or any potential partner. I also don't feel like I "need" someone. I don't need a partner to complete who I am. That's just my opinion as my past relationships were never very healthy and all had that aire to them.

That's good. I'm glad to hear of your success. I just am hoping the same guys will be friends with me as a man and start to view me as a real man. It's like this guy now thinks I'm just a joke. It may be that he just isn't as serious minded as me and sees everyone as a possibly sex object.

[Laura_7]

One of the ones who likes me likes me as a woman and wouldn't as a male. I don't want to be liked just because I'm an attractive female- which is why the guy does. Doesn't this article put you down as a woman? This article isn't particularly geared toward me. I'm sure I'll still be a male feminist, but thanks anyway, Linda.

The article was simply to show that a few things can change, which may help you come into a place where you can be more yourself. This way its much more likely to meet people who are like minded.

For women there are other advantages. Its possible to bond more with women, and have chatters and emotinals connections, so it does not all put down. Usually people react better to women showing emotions.

And people often transition for themselves, to be more who they feel they are.


*hugs*

[Kylo]

You mean you have already transitioned and it has or it hasn't affected your relationship.

No, I'm 10 years into this relationship at the moment; I only explored my feelings about gender seriously with him about 3-4 years ago, only deciding to act on them with transition about 2 years ago. I may well have been conversational about it many times before that, because far as I know I've never deliberately hidden my thoughts and feelings from him, but it was only 3-4 years ago that I said "I have a definite problem with my body". And I'm sure he glossed over anything I might have said before that as whimsical philosophy.

Relationships are hard for me too, but it's because I'm picky and don't want to give. How could you be in a relationship wish someone you dislike.

Well it depends on what you mean by dislike. My first partner I was in a 6 year relationship with following on from being each others' best friends. I was not attracted to him physically but evidently he was attracted to me. I got into that relationship for a variety of reasons including the fact that he kept insisting we give it a try, my own lack of experience with sexual relationships of any kind at the time making me feel as though I should at least try it out and see if it was all that, my closeness for the guy and my wanting to continue to live together, etc. I didn't dislike him, but I was ambivalent about the sex aspect and felt it was a sacrifice for the things I wanted such as being with someone who was trustworthy, supportive of me in general and so on. There were some aspects of the whole thing I did dislike - he had plenty of baggage of his own, if not more than me to worry about and was unpracticed in what a romantic relationship ought to be. I agree it would be unlikely a careful individual gets into a relationship with a person they outright dislike, but you can certainly find yourself in situations you dislike with a partner, as I did on that occasion.

Did you mean you dislike your current partner?. I'm glad to hear you have a partner who has helped you in your life. Why are you ambivalent towards him?

Not at all. What I meant was that no relationship I've ever had has been easy; it could be that I end up in relationships with people who are non-dominant so as not to clash with me but by the same token they can be very stubborn about themselves and how they think. My current partner for example, moved away from his hometown to be in the countryside with me after I suggested it; I didn't force him to do it, but the difficulty and drop in salary he experienced doing it has played constantly on his mind ever since and translated as a very bad decision for him. The stress experienced by financial issues then translated into stress at home and at one point caused him to believe everything we'd done was basically ruined, including our relationship (because the idyllic "happily ever after" image was not really our reality. Yes, he was quite naive about that and if I'd known just how much at the time, I would have warned him that it was never going to be easy or idyllic). Now he refuses to take any sort of decision to move to reverse the problem as he sees it, because he is now afraid of making such leaps and has frozen up about it. He was depressive when I met him, experienced a few years of happiness when things were going well but now has fallen back into a depression because things are not moving forward in the way he wants, nor will he stick his neck out to make them happen. Nor is it my job to force him to do it. These are the sorts of difficulties that make living with some people as bad as it might be good. I suppose in the two relationships I had that I class as serious and long-term, both of my partners were depressive and needed some kind of help, both were already friends or acquaintances I knew and trusted. Rather than opting for a stronger person to take care of me, I always took on the role of taking care of them, which I suppose is somewhat of a masculine role and expectation.

It's not about sex with me. I already don't care about the sexual aspect of a relationship and never will.

Then it should be quite possible to still transition and find a partner who is not especially interested in the sex aspect of relationship? If sex isn't what you want - as it was not what I wanted - it can cause problems if you bond with a person for whom sex is important. It will make you dysphoric in the relationship if you are not at ease with your genitalia, and have to use them to keep another person satisfied. It can lead to resentment and feelings of inequality if you simply engage in sex for them and get little out of the experience yourself - i.e. it becomes a "chore". I believe you should transition for yourself and seek a person who is more interested in friendship than sex, if you are a person who is very particular about the sorts of people you like to associate with. 

[KarlMars]

No, I'm 10 years into this relationship at the moment

It's good you're able to stay in a relationship that long. I was married. It didn't last long, but I'm probably a lot younger than you.

There were some aspects of the whole thing I did dislike - he had plenty of baggage of his own, if not more than me to worry about and was unpracticed in what a romantic relationship ought to be. I agree it would be unlikely a careful individual gets into a relationship with a person they outright dislike, but you can certainly find yourself in situations you dislike with a partner, as I did on that occasion.

I have experienced that part where someone else put expectations on me and I learned at a young age that I would never have a relationship with someone who either was very independent or very malleable and followed me.

What was terrible is that the expectations put on me were female stereotypes. I don't look the way I feel.

Not at all. What I meant was that no relationship I've ever had has been easy; it could be that I end up in relationships with people who are non-dominant so as not to clash with me but by the same token they can be very stubborn about themselves and how they think. My current partner for example, moved away from his hometown to be in the countryside with me after I suggested it; I didn't force him to do it, but the difficulty and drop in salary he experienced doing it has played constantly on his mind ever since and translated as a very bad decision for him. The stress experienced by financial issues then translated into stress at home and at one point caused him to believe everything we'd done was basically ruined, including our relationship (because the idyllic "happily ever after" image was not really our reality. Yes, he was quite naive about that and if I'd known just how much at the time, I would have warned him that it was never going to be easy or idyllic). Now he refuses to take any sort of decision to move to reverse the problem as he sees it, because he is now afraid of making such leaps and has frozen up about it. He was depressive when I met him, experienced a few years of happiness when things were going well but now has fallen back into a depression because things are not moving forward in the way he wants, nor will he stick his neck out to make them happen. Nor is it my job to force him to do it. These are the sorts of difficulties that make living with some people as bad as it might be good. I suppose in the two relationships I had that I class as serious and long-term, both of my partners were depressive and needed some kind of help, both were already friends or acquaintances I knew and trusted. Rather than opting for a stronger person to take care of me, I always took on the role of taking care of them, which I suppose is somewhat of a masculine role and expectation.

I have also naturally wanted to assume the dominant role in the past but the other was dominant too and it was nothing but a power struggle. For me the key to a relationship would be to eliminate the power struggle by finding someone naturally submissive in nature.

Then it should be quite possible to still transition and find a partner who is not especially interested in the sex aspect of relationship? If sex isn't what you want - as it was not what I wanted - it can cause problems if you bond with a person for whom sex is important. It will make you dysphoric in the relationship if you are not at ease with your genitalia, and have to use them to keep another person satisfied. It can lead to resentment and feelings of inequality if you simply engage in sex for them and get little out of the experience yourself - i.e. it becomes a "chore". I believe you should transition for yourself and seek a person who is more interested in friendship than sex, if you are a person who is very particular about the sorts of people you like to associate with.

Yes this is very important to me. I have had a problem in the past with feeling pressured by people who are obsessed with genitals. It reminds me of some things I read by Freud that I didn't like the sounds of and didn't want to believe until I met a few people who fit them!

It's nice talking to you. You're so in depth.

[Kylo]

It's good you're able to stay in a relationship that long.

I read and hear around how some people who stayed in relationships for a year or more classed this as "long term" and "serious" and I realized that none of my relationships were casual in any way, even if they began with people who were initially friends. I suppose all of mine have always had a serious tone from the start. I would actually like to be married to the partner I currently have, but that will never happen now.

I have experienced that part where someone else put expectations on me and I learned at a young age that I would never have a relationship with someone who either was very independent or very malleable and followed me.

What was terrible is that the expectations put on me were female stereotypes. I don't look the way I feel.

I suppose I was somewhat lucky then; no stereotypes were ever placed on me - I'm sure I wouldn't have gone further into the relationship if they'd required that as the alarm bells would have been going off in my brain - not to mention I was utterly clueless at acting like a stereotypical female to begin with. It's a shame you were put into that position, but now you're forewarned for future encounters.

I have also naturally wanted to assume the dominant role in the past but the other was dominant too and it was nothing but a power struggle. For me the key to a relationship would be to eliminate the power struggle by finding someone naturally submissive in nature.

I find that people are rarely completely submissive. How it works for me is this - the person can do whatever they want with their own life, their own money, their own property... I keep out of that business completely unless we're joint-purchasing something or they want advice. But in return nobody gets to decide my business in what concerns me personally, i.e. my job, my body, my attitudes and values, etc. I set down the rules from the start that I won't go lording over someone else because they will not go lording over me. I only really demand loyalty and respect, and a certain amount of personal space, and if I get that, I'll give the same back. Naturally domineering people will clash with me (i.e. my mother) because they tend to let the respect go out of the window and when that happens, mine goes out of the window too. But I wouldn't say you should seek out an exceptionally submissive person as they may actually become quite a burden depending on you for everything and be unable to make their own decisions. Just make sure you lay down the ground rules from the beginning as absolutely fair between you both, and avoid someone who will always argue with you because they enjoy arguing or fighting a whole lot.

Yes this is very important to me. I have had a problem in the past with feeling pressured by people who are obsessed with genitals. It reminds me of some things I read by Freud that I didn't like the sounds of and didn't want to believe until I met a few people who fit them!

You're right... I've met a few people myself Freud would kill to get on his couch.

It's nice talking to you. You're so in depth.

Why thank you