On passing.

[Rachael]

Kate: yeah, the public helps, but im still terrified ill be read, dispite havin serveral close friends who dont know im trans... its complicated, but honesty is best, if someone doesnt pass, ill tell them, if they do, they do, if thier part way there, ill offer encouragement, and going from male to female isnt overnight, it takes time, and kalt, you WILL get there, you have good potential facially, time will tell.
R

[Kate]

if someone doesnt pass, ill tell them, if they do, they do...

Well, you really can't make that call for someone, aside from telling them if they pass with YOU or not. The Public is less critical than other TSs, as IMHO I don't think they're looking for TSs (aside from maybe in certain cities). If they assume you're female for whatever reason initially, it takes something to BREAK that impression - yet their subconscious will try like heck to maintain that first impression anyway. The "she must be a TS!" option doesn't exist in most people's mind.

~Kate~

[shanetastic]

are you f2m? if so, yes you do pass,
if your m2f like i think, you look vageuly feminine, but you dont look female. Sorry, im just being honest.
R

I have to agree.  I mean HRT and laser/electro will help that alot though, as this is one of the few cases where FFS is not needed.

few cases? youve not seen me recently have you? nor many young trans people who dont need any...
Kalt yes, i meant you.
R

I think we all hope not to have to have FFS.  hehe.  Not only would it drain all of my money, but it would be painful as heck too most likely, and I hate surgery!  But there are of course things I don't like about myself which I would LIKE to change   But we'll see how I turn out first though.

[Kat]

I would like to get FFS at some point, mostly because when I see myself in the mirror my face reminds me too much of my old life

[seldom]

I would like to get FFS at some point, mostly because when I see myself in the mirror my face reminds me too much of my old life

Kat, no offense, YOU DEFINATELY do not need it.  Your face is as perfect as it gets. If you are thinking of it get it out of your pretty little head.  For somebody that looks as feminine as you it is not worth the risk.  As much as you see your old self, you may be seeing your old self because you were highly feminine going into transition.  Thats just my input. 



Posted on: October 17, 2007, 12:33:54 PM

if someone doesnt pass, ill tell them, if they do, they do...

Well, you really can't make that call for someone, aside from telling them if they pass with YOU or not. The Public is less critical than other TSs, as IMHO I don't think they're looking for TSs (aside from maybe in certain cities). If they assume you're female for whatever reason initially, it takes something to BREAK that impression - yet their subconscious will try like heck to maintain that first impression anyway. The "she must be a TS!" option doesn't exist in most people's mind.

~Kate~

Kate is right, unless you live in San Fransisco or are completely impassable, most people will not pick up on it. 

[Lisbeth]

The Public is less critical than other TSs, as IMHO I don't think they're looking for TSs (aside from maybe in certain cities). If they assume you're female for whatever reason initially, it takes something to BREAK that impression - yet their subconscious will try like heck to maintain that first impression anyway. The "she must be a TS!" option doesn't exist in most people's mind.

This is very true, but there are rare exceptions.  I think a lot of it has to do with people's experience.  If they've never met one, they can't see them.  There are people I talk with every day who don't know.  And then there was the young man who sat down across from me on the train a few weeks ago and clocked me in 5 seconds.  He happened to be gay and knew some trans people.

[melissa90299]

People always dispute this but I sometimes clock TSs before I make visual or auditory contact. I think what has happened is that they have read me (In SF, it is rare that two women can't read each other) and I feel that and turn and look and sure enough, I see another transwoman.

We can talk about this ad nauseum but the reality is that it is irrelevant what any one individual thinks of us. The key is letting go of the attachment to passing. Some day, people everywhere will have the ability to read TSs that people in San Francisco. Is everyone going to have a nervous breakdown then and be running to get FFS?

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:20:19 PM

are you f2m? if so, yes you do pass,
if your m2f like i think, you look vageuly feminine, but you dont look female. Sorry, im just being honest.
R

I have to agree.  I mean HRT and laser/electro will help that alot though, as this is one of the few cases where FFS is not needed.

few cases? youve not seen me recently have you? nor many young trans people who dont need any...
Kalt yes, i meant you.
R

The only way to gauge how well a person passes is to meet her in person.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:25:26 PM

I would like to get FFS at some point, mostly because when I see myself in the mirror my face reminds me too much of my old life

Based on the avatar you don't but I can't really see your face. I had a pic pre-FFS that clocked 100% female but other camera angles were not so kind. All my friends told me I didn't need FFS but they were wrong.

[Kat]

Based on the avatar you don't but I can't really see your face. I had a pic pre-FFS that clocked 100% female but other camera angles were not so kind. All my friends told me I didn't need FFS but they were wrong.

Umm if it helps here are two different angles from the same day (you can see my adam's apple in the first one, which is why I hate having my picture taken without my face at some angle)





I don't particularly want to get FFS, as it is incredibly expensive, but if it got rid of the constant nagging when I look in the mirror it might be worth it 

edit: a few more pics are in my blog

[kalt]

few cases? youve not seen me recently have you? nor many young trans people who dont need any...
Kalt yes, i meant you.
R

Mreow.
I wasn't even trying to look like a chick.
Most people say I look likea chick with short hair.  Guess the ego went to my head.

[seldom]

Kat no offense, outside a trach shave.  I highly recommend AGAINST it.  You are one of the people where I say, its not only unwise, but its completely off base.  The only reason that nagging is there, is because you still see a boy, but the reality is you always had a highly feminine face and structure.  You do not need it, you should not get it, and its not worth the risk.  You fall into the category of people who mention FFS, which I will always say, its a bad idea all around.  As much as you have those thoughts in your head, you need to get them out, an extremely expensive surgery with long recovery times is not needed for somebody who already looks like a girl and a rather cute one at that. 

You may have that nagging feeling, but you completely pass.  To be honest, I am a bit jealous.  You were born with a beautiful face. 

Whatever angle you show, you will still look female.  Please...you need more self confidence, not an expensive surgery.  Whatever you are seeing is not really there. 

[kalt]

Kat, if you run away from what you were which is part of who you are today, then when will you STOP running?
It's easy to never look back, but if you don't have a past to stand on then you're doing nothing but falling.
Getting FFS for the sole purpose of hiding from yourself isn't going to work.

Read a poem called, "Man in the Glass."
Replace the pronouns if you wanna, just try to get the whole idea of it.

The Man in the Glass
When you get what you want in your struggle for "self"
And the world makes you "King" for one day
Then go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.
'Cause it isn't your father or mother or spouse
Whose judgments upon you must pass.
But the fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the man staring back from the glass.
He's the fellow to please, never mind all the rest
For he's with you clear up to the end.
And you've passed your most difficult, dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.
You may be like Jack Horner and chisel a plum
And think you're a wonderful guy
But the man in the glass says "You're only a bum"
If you can't look him straight in the eye.
You may fool yourself down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you've cheated the man in the glass.

[Rachael]

melissa: everwhere people will be able to read transwmen? no, i dont think so, for a start, if you pass, you pass, and just knowing about trans people and accepting them wont give everyone magic ->-bleeped-<-dar... ive passed with ts people, so i KNOW it is possible to pass with TG educated folk, infact when i told the woman, she asked if i was m2f or f2m... so even KNOWING cant put you on the right path.... id not be laying down laws if i were you...
R

[melissa90299]

melissa: everwhere people will be able to read transwmen? no, i dont think so, for a start, if you pass, you pass, and just knowing about trans people and accepting them wont give everyone magic ->-bleeped-<-dar... ive passed with ts people, so i KNOW it is possible to pass with TG educated folk, infact when i told the woman, she asked if i was m2f or f2m... so even KNOWING cant put you on the right path.... id not be laying down laws if i were you...
R

I don't understand why you need to convince me how well you "pass."

Quite apropos that the woman was confused as to whether or not you were MtF or FtM, tbh I see you as androgynous.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 11:33:48 PM

Kat no offense, outside a trach shave.  I highly recommend AGAINST it.  You are one of the people where I say, its not only unwise, but its completely off base.  The only reason that nagging is there, is because you still see a boy, but the reality is you always had a highly feminine face and structure.  You do not need it, you should not get it, and its not worth the risk.  You fall into the category of people who mention FFS, which I will always say, its a bad idea all around.  As much as you have those thoughts in your head, you need to get them out, an extremely expensive surgery with long recovery times is not needed for somebody who already looks like a girl and a rather cute one at that. 

You may have that nagging feeling, but you completely pass.  To be honest, I am a bit jealous.  You were born with a beautiful face. 

Whatever angle you show, you will still look female.  Please...you need more self confidence, not an expensive surgery.  Whatever you are seeing is not really there. 

Except that she would be absolutely awesome if she had FFS. Or maybe just a rhino.

[Rachael]

why bother with ffs? most females arent perfect feminine proportions anyway?
I wasnt convincing you melissa, i was pointing out your 'blessed informed people' like sanfransisco, cant read any trans person... dont tel me they have infinate ->-bleeped-<-dars there... i might just snort tea on my pc...

R

[Berliegh]

why bother with ffs? most females arent perfect feminine proportions anyway?
I wasnt convincing you melissa, i was pointing out your 'blessed informed people' like sanfransisco, cant read any trans person... dont tel me they have infinate ->-bleeped-<-dars there... i might just snort tea on my pc...

R

I need ffs and saw a surgeon about it yesterday.

[Hypatia]

Kalt, please do something about your hair! That is a very male hairstyle. The hair (or rather the lack of it) is what is ruining your ability to pass. Grow it out and find a good stylist, make it look feminine and you'll pass brilliantly. I envy your face shape. All you need is bangs.

This is very true, but there are rare exceptions.  I think a lot of it has to do with people's experience.

Lately I've been passing--I mean perceived as the woman I am--quite well! I am now consistently called "Ma'am" everywhere I go, and I can see the look in people's eyes that they don't clock me any more--that clocking look I always used to get is now gone.

But yesterday I went to the post office to buy stamps, and the clerk was smirking at me, it was obvious she'd clocked me. I wondered what was her problem, then I remembered--this was the post office I'd been going to for many years, and she recognized me from before. I'm already so well transitioned into my fulltime life, I'm forgetting that anyone could still see me as a non-woman. So if you really need to avoid getting clocked, you have to take that into consideration. But I just shrug it off.

[kalt]

Kalt, please do something about your hair! That is a very male hairstyle. The hair (or rather the lack of it) is what is ruining your ability to pass. Grow it out and find a good stylist, make it look feminine and you'll pass brilliantly. I envy your face shape. All you need is bangs.

Bangs...
Bangs...

Doesn't exceedingly curly hair count?

And it'll grow when it grows>.>  I can't speed it up.

Bangs suck>.>

But yesterday I went to the post office to buy stamps, and the clerk was smirking at me, it was obvious she'd clocked me. I wondered what was her problem, then I remembered--this was the post office I'd been going to for many years, and she recognized me from before.

I just snorted tea all over my keyboard.

But I just shrug it off.

SHRUGS, FTW!
Oh yeah... this isn't bodybuilding.com>.>
Hehehe, go girl!

[seldom]

Melissa, I do not think thats the case with Kat.  She is one of the few people that would probably end up looking very similiar, if not the scars would have some negative effect.  Overall I think she looks awesome as it is and FFS IS NOT going to make her look any better. 

[Rachael]

ive seen manlyer looking natal females than kat, and MANY MANY MANY of the members here, namely younger ones, but a decent number of older members look good for thier ages.i do think theres a larger proportion of late teen to early 20s, and upto 30s who can pass almost flawlessly, even in sanfransico and other ->-bleeped-<-dar hotspots...
the younger you are, the more hrt will effect you, its a fact. more growth hormone, more change, less skinny too, too skinny, skin to tight, no boobs and hips etc... too fat again, its a fine ballence. but a large number of people can, and i wager a lot of the trans people who never visit this forum or any, live seamless lives, i will be leaving here once im post op, ill go on to live the normal live i was meant to have just like many others. theres a trend in the trans community to play 'reading' games, and put people down, or claim you can read any treans person ever. hey, if you can read any trans person, Interpol Would love to give you a job iding criminals... cos you obviously have some magic ability.
R

[Berliegh]

Kelt, that's a nice profile pic ..