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Should I Feel Guilty For Being Afraid To Be A Woman?

Started by Tristyn, February 14, 2016, 06:20:55 AM

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Tristyn

As I woke up and took my first two steps out of bed this morning, dysphoria hit me rather hard as I felt a sharp pressure in my chest telling me that I need to stop wearing binders before I damage my diaphragm. I looked towards the unholy drawer that holds those "things" that could be considered a temporary replacement of my beloved binders, but the thought of reverting back to wearing those "things" is too nightmarish for me to even behold! Especially after all the horror I had faced when I was willfully living as female in my younger days.

As I was trapped in this troubling contemplation of worry, I thought aloud, "Women are the strongest beings to walk the face of this earth. My mama is the strongest person I've ever known. I'm not strong enough....."

So I grabbed one of my old hospital binders and wrapped it on around me, with my eyes closed, not wanting to look at my grotesque tumors that have generated the wrong type of attention for far too long.

Now that I think about it, why wouldn't we want to become or be seen as men? As we know, being a woman is no walk in the park. Its actually very frightening to me. If you identify as a woman or want to be seen as a woman, you better be ready for some serious hardship. For me, the hardest thing to deal with is that attraction that none of us guys want towards body parts we feel are not in connection with our real gender. After this incident I had where a male medical staff member violated my boundaries, I hold this belief very firmly and never letting go. I'm scared out of my wits to even dare to return to my previous lifestyle. As I look in retrospect, I wonder why I couldn't figure this out sooner.
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Elis

It's true that it's difficult being a woman, but it's not easy being a man as well. I'm not looking forward to the male privilege that will be bestowed on me. I'll constantly be thinking 'did I get that job because I'm male or because of my personality/experience' or did that woman think I thought she was weak simply because I held the door for her or helped her carry something heavy. Just my two random examples and something to think about.
I'm sure these are better alternatives than being a women with all the mistreatment that comes with that, but I still can't stop thinking about it.
I just hate that I have some internal misogynistic thoughts about women which I know aren't true. But seeing how much I dislike my body and being seen as the wrong gender it's amazing I didn't know sooner.
They/them pronouns preferred.



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Tristyn

Yeah. Now that I'm living full-time as male as I can and know how, I can see the disadvantages to that too.

But I guess what I was trying to say, Elis, is that I would rather deal with male expectations than female ones. I would rather be disposable than overly accommodated, for example. But yes, I don't think male privilege is all its cracked up to be either. It would also cause me much guilt as if its an easy pass in life.

I've read about examples of this in a book about transsexualism when I first came out, where transmen received higher pay than they ever did before transitioning from female. Yet transwomen received lower pay than they did before transitioning from male. Its sad....

And I can definitely vouch for having some internal misogyny. Though I highly believe that part of my own and some of other's could have been shaped by environmental factors also.

Like I get so upset when I am misgendered. But it happens so much it stresses me out just to get so upset about it. But sometimes its hard not too because of this internal sexism I'm carrying around with me all the time. :( Like its that bad for me to be mistakenly (and persistently) called a "ma'am." Which causes me much guilt and embarrassment and shame all at the same time.
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Kylo

Being a man or a woman is difficult and intimidating in different ways. I'd just rather have difficulty and be intimidated in a way that doesn't feel utterly alien to me.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Tristyn

I see what you're sayin,' T.K.G.W.

Being a man or woman has their shortcomings, but since we identify as men, we would much rather bear the weight of masculine challenges than feminine ones. I know I would. Like I would rather feel the intimidation from walking down the street and have beautiful women (and nosy, annoying men and women) staring at what's between my legs versus the excruciating intimidation I've felt (and still do every once and while) for years from walking down the street and have guys of any age range staring at what's on my chest and probably wanting to touch 'them'. :/
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Just_M

Hello! I'm sort of new here, I'm FT? and I'm still having serious doubts about, well, pretty much everything.
Although I'm rather small, I hate it too when men stare at my chest and say stupid things while I walk on the street no matter how feminine or unfeminine I dress. Do you think that makes me trans? I mean, I don't hate my body as much as you. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. How long ago did you start to feel such dysphoria?
As some of you were talking about the mysogynistic thoughts (or not) and about being misgendered from time to time, what other changes have you experienced in your life since you came out as trans men?
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Kylo

Quote from: King Phoenix on February 14, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
I see what you're sayin,' T.K.G.W.

Being a man or woman has their shortcomings, but since we identify as men, we would much rather bear the weight of masculine challenges than feminine ones. I know I would. Like I would rather feel the intimidation from walking down the street and have beautiful women (and nosy, annoying men and women) staring at what's between my legs versus the excruciating intimidation I've felt (and still do every once and while) for years from walking down the street and have guys of any age range staring at what's on my chest and probably wanting to touch 'them'. :/

Agreed.

Sounds like you handled that sort of thing with more composure than I did. On the occasions I have been approached and physically harassed for my body, I get physically nasty. For some time I thought perhaps I was overreacting, until I spoke to cis dudes who had similar reactions if men tried to do the same thing to them.

I'd rather deal with that problem as a man than as a woman, with the focus on the appropriate body parts. I must have compensated down the years with the way I dress - I don't make much femininity available visually for people. I've been told by strangers, work colleagues and so on that the way I do dress is 'a little masculine', 'intimidating', etc. but I think they just think that because it's masculine dress, often formal-ish and typically dark colors. It mostly keeps the creeps away.

Quote from: Just_M on February 14, 2016, 01:24:51 PMHow long ago did you start to feel such dysphoria?
As some of you were talking about the mysogynistic thoughts (or not) and about being misgendered from time to time, what other changes have you experienced in your life since you came out as trans men?

Pretty much from day one of real self-awareness. The first time as a kid you sit up and think, "I'm me, but something's weird here."

Actually since I fully understood the nature of the problem I've become more immune to some things. Gendered insults used to really bother me when directed at me, now I couldn't give a flying one. I feel like ah ha, I was so irritated before because I think I was slowly resigning myself to an inappropriate fate without the hope and information I needed; but now I know I'm not female, these insults don't mean a thing to me. They're water off a duck's back. I was right, my senses were right, so it's like those insults don't even apply to me anymore. It's a great feeling. A weight lifted.

There's some kind of relief there in realizing it wasn't some personality flaw, or vanity, that created the aversion to femaleness in my person. It's made me a different person in the last 2 or 3 years just sifting through the past and reconciling it with this condition. My brain's rewiring itself because my dreams have changed, my day to day feelings have changed.



"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Tristyn

Quote from: Just_M on February 14, 2016, 01:24:51 PM
Hello! I'm sort of new here, I'm FT? and I'm still having serious doubts about, well, pretty much everything.
Although I'm rather small, I hate it too when men stare at my chest and say stupid things while I walk on the street no matter how feminine or unfeminine I dress. Do you think that makes me trans? I mean, I don't hate my body as much as you. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. How long ago did you start to feel such dysphoria?
As some of you were talking about the mysogynistic thoughts (or not) and about being misgendered from time to time, what other changes have you experienced in your life since you came out as trans men?

Hello and welcome to Susan's Place! :D


I still get those doubts too sometimes even though I have established myself as male for almost a year now. However, I have felt like a guy since I was four or perhaps even younger than that. I just never knew there was a term for it, nor did I know it was ever "ok" to live in the way we feel.

I don't think it makes you trans simply for not liking the parts of you that get unwanted advances or attention. Plenty of cis women will make their boobs smaller just because of that (and health reasons). Why, a couple of weeks ago I saw a judge show on tv where an idiot wanted to divorce his wife simply because she wanted to make her boobs smaller to decrease that unwanted attention and for her health. I am so serious. It was on a show called Judge Ross.

Also, you don't have to even hate your body (body dysmorphia?) or even have any gender dysphoria at all to be considered as transgender. I really began to feel dysphoria after I was molested at age 8 by a step brother. That's when I found out that there are different kinds of bodies and I learned what it means to be a man or a woman in this world. I felt so ashamed (and still do) that my outside self does not match what I feel inside. The dysphoria intensified when puberty started. And continues to worsen to this day. I alleviate it the best I know how by being as authentic as I can like dressing in the style I like even though I live with a rather controlling father, doing the things that I like, sitting how I like, e.t.c. Sometimes, my dysphoria gets bad to the point where I will self-inflict injury to those "tumors" and have thoughts about scarring my private area. Sometimes its so bad I can't even shower I will put it off like I am doing today. Though exercising will push me to want to shower more often, which is one reason I work out a whole lot.

About those misogynistic thoughts, I've always had them for as long as I could remember. I guess the only real changes I have experienced from coming out as transgender is that I feel like a very real person. But its still a huge struggle because of the people around me. >.> That is one reason I must transition.



Phoenix
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AnonyMs

Never feel guilty for something you have no control over. You didn't choose any of this and its not your fault. There is no place for guilt.

Don't compare yourself to others either, everyone's problems and experiences are different and there's no way to say how strong anyone is without understanding what they are suffering and their inherit ability to deal with it.

And even if you could say someone is strong, that's the way the world is; everyone has different strengths and weaknesses and if you measure yourself against the best in others its going to be disappointing. I certainly come up short compared to others in many ways, and if I look far enough I come up short in all possible ways. I have my good points though. For all of that I may as well blame/thank my parents for everything, because I'm not sure any of it was my choice... only they didn't choose either.

Do your best, and take satisfaction in that, whatever it is. How can anyone ask for more.
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mac1

When I see a beautiful woman with her well proportioned body and breasts and lovely smooth crotch I really feel envious.

Quote from: King Phoenix on February 14, 2016, 12:09:53 PM
I see what you're sayin,' T.K.G.W.

Being a man or woman has their shortcomings, but since we identify as men, we would much rather bear the weight of masculine challenges than feminine ones. I know I would. Like I would rather feel the intimidation from walking down the street and have beautiful women (and nosy, annoying men and women) staring at what's between my legs versus the excruciating intimidation I've felt (and still do every once and while) for years from walking down the street and have guys of any age range staring at what's on my chest and probably wanting to touch 'them'. :/
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FTMax

Have you done something wrong? If the answer is no, then there's nothing to feel guilty about.

In many social settings, it is more dangerous to be female than male and I certainly shudder when I think about how awful it would be to find myself in a situation like that. But being male also has some disadvantages that aren't readily apparent until you've lived on the other side of the fence. Male victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse are often unable to find assistance or aren't taken as seriously. In a lot of legal situations stemming from fatherhood (biological or assumed) and marriage, men are at a disadvantage.

No matter what you are, there are always going to be potential unpleasantries. The best thing you can do during good times is build your capacity to respond appropriately.
T: 12/5/2014 | Top: 4/21/2015 | Hysto: 2/6/2016 | Meta: 3/21/2017

I don't come here anymore, so if you need to get in touch send an email: maxdoeswork AT protonmail.com
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Peep

I feel that being surrounded by feminist thinking, even the light background kind of YA novels with scrappy female characters, is one of the things that held me back from transitioning - it felt like I was just struggling with misogyny and not with my own feelings about my own gender. I felt like a failure for a long time because I wasn't able to be tough as a female and not let all of the misogynist things around me bother me. 'Body positivity' is part of this too - I wasn't just being told the old skinny=good thing, but also that women should embrace their curves and busts and be happy to be 'real' women and run about naked on the beach, and as much as I supported other women who are confident like that, I couldn't do it myself without disassociating entirely from my body. Which isn't very positive haha

also actually two of the five or so people I've come out to asked or hinted that i was transitioning because of oppression - they asked me how my body or my chest 'hold me back' in life despite just being told that they make me deeply uncomfortable and depressed. I don't think they'd ask that of someone amab - 'how do you feel being male holds you back in life?' Like they wanted me to say that I was only doing it so that i was more likely to get a job or something. It still makes me feel guilty, even though I know I'm not transitioning as like a shortcut to avoid having to fight the patriarchy.
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Tristyn

Being a woman, to me, would mean for me to have to dress in a very revealing way. I think its more acceptable for men to cover themselves up far more than women. I'm not saying that in order for someone to express themselves as female, one would have to dress skimpily. But even feminine clothing that could be considered modest frighten me too much to even imagine ever wearing again. In my perspective, revealing + unwanted attraction = unwanted advances.

Like T.K.G.W. said earlier, I would rather be a man and deal with this sort of thing than a woman. Having cat calls directed at me would not upset me because its chauvinistically obnoxious, but because they are confusing me as female.  :(



Phoenix

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Just_M

Quote from: Peep on February 14, 2016, 04:09:52 PM
I feel that being surrounded by feminist thinking, even the light background kind of YA novels with scrappy female characters, is one of the things that held me back from transitioning - it felt like I was just struggling with misogyny and not with my own feelings about my own gender. I felt like a failure for a long time because I wasn't able to be tough as a female and not let all of the misogynist things around me bother me.

Hi Peep! I'm here just questioning my gender identity. And I read your post about how feminsim held you back from transitioning and I just recalled this case, I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's a scholar whose current name is Paul Preciado (queer theory, gender theory). His transition is quite recent, he's on T, altough he's more genderfluid or genderqueer because he doesn't identify as male. Right after he came to my country, a lot of feminists hated him deeply! Not because of what he said, but because he was now a man! A scholar who wrote a lot of meaningful things about gender as a woman was now being discriminated against because of his transition. Feminists also said he was now part of the male privilege, meaning that Paul sold his soul to the dark side basically.
Feminism is amazing for a lot of things but I've seen it done a lot of harm to some people depending on what you read and who you read. But try to deprogramme yourself from that. I'm trying to do that as well.
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Moneyless

I think we more-so see it a lot more as we have the worst of both worlds. We don't want to be female, and nonetheless for an amount of time we have to put up with the disadvantages. I remember for the longest time, before I even knew what transgender was, I assumed I wanted to be male because of the pros of being male rather than female, and I assumed every other female felt the same. I remember when I was 13 I was like to my best friend, "Wouldn't being a guy be the best thing ever? No periods, no pregnancy, no (not as much) sexism, physically stronger, and all the other privileges too" and she replied "Yeah, they have it better but I'm still glad I'm a girl" and that confused me so much as back then I didn't even know what being transgender was, I just knew I wanted to be a guy and it confused me so much knowing that other girls didn't feel the same.. and after coming out and talking to some of my friends about it more openly they told me they acknowledged the cons of being a woman and even though they suck, they still prefer being a woman.

There are cons to being a man also, and as a transgender, I would do ANYTHING to face those cons as a man, because it's just a part of being a man. Being socially pressured to pay for dates, make the first moves, always have to appear 'tough' and emotionless, and other cons which I just can't think of right now, even though they're cons, to me they're somehow pros cause they validate that I am male. I don't know how to put my thoughts into words too well so I don't know if this really is making any sense lol.
started T 12/04/16 - 18 years old
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Kylo

Makes perfect sense if it fits with your personality - and to some degree gender influences personality.

I don't know how many times I've been told to "smile!" when people thought I was female and it bothered me no end. I'm not a humorless character, but telling me to smile and be bubbly and happy and harmless-looking [because that's what those people thought a girl should be like] isn't who I am. I'll smile if there's something to smile about, but not just so other people can feel more comfortable with me. A woman who doesn't smile much and doesn't make herself agreeable tends to get some kind of disapproval, I notice. It angers me to think I warped a natural part of my personality to seem more agreeable to these idiots, and to hear myself sometimes falling back into it to try to make them more comfortable, ignoring my own need to feel more comfortable.

The result of these kind of pressures not only makes you into what you aren't, but it makes you start to dislike, and hate and suppress, and develop unhealthy behaviors, all the rest of it.

My stepfather's mother bought a dog once when she was clearly too old to take care of it so the wretched thing didn't get the kind of attention and exercise and life it needed. It was a breed meant to be very active and exercised regularly, but in that house it was confined to small spaces all the time, yelled at for barking or playing around, or doing anything natural to dogs, basically. I saw what was going on and tried to get it out in the park as often as I could but I couldn't be around all of the time to do this. Eventually the thing became neurotic and overweight and destroyed the furniture and they contemplated getting rid of it. And his mother was like, "what did I do wrong? Must be the dog had something wrong with it."

Well, you treated a dog like a cat, for starters. You ruined it.

I think the same thing eventually happens to those of us who can't be our natural selves. We might not wreck the furniture but we start to wreck ourselves internally, looking for an outlet. Sometimes that outlet can manifest as a hatred for the gender we don't belong in, when there's no reason we'd be hating it if we were in the right place at all, or a hatred for ourselves. I was raised by a feminist (somewhat man-hating) mother so, it was difficult for me to reconcile my personal hatreds as well. I don't have any hatred of women, now that I am sure I am not one of them. But back when I was not able to see clearly, I certainly felt an abject frustration with aspects of femininity. You just can't make a dog into a cat, so to speak, no matter what feminists say about there being no difference between men and women. What they probably should say is there's not much difference between what we might be able to do or achieve in life, but the differences are there.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Tristyn

#16
^^Awesome observation there. and great comparison with the dog story. That's exactly what happens when the people in our lives pressure each other to become something we just aren't no matter how much effort they put into it. As if we are computers meant for programming.

They think we feel exactly what they feel. Why, just yesterday, my father expected me to not be cold like he was. As if he was insulted by the very fact of me wearing a hoodie with the hood pulled over in his house. He was practically screaming at me when he questioned why I was wearing it, telling me, "Its not cold in here!" How the hell is he or anyone gonna tell me what I feel? I shouldn't have to justify such an action, but having an illness like Lupus Nephritis means that I am so prone to anemia which can induce cold intolerance. Like I didn't even bother to remind him cause it does me absolutely no good whatsoever.

If people could learn not to control others, including their feelings and actions this would never be an issue.



Phoenix
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Peep

Quote from: Just_M on February 15, 2016, 08:35:40 PM
Hi Peep! I'm here just questioning my gender identity. And I read your post about how feminsim held you back from transitioning and I just recalled this case, I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's a scholar whose current name is Paul Preciado (queer theory, gender theory). His transition is quite recent, he's on T, altough he's more genderfluid or genderqueer because he doesn't identify as male. Right after he came to my country, a lot of feminists hated him deeply! Not because of what he said, but because he was now a man! A scholar who wrote a lot of meaningful things about gender as a woman was now being discriminated against because of his transition. Feminists also said he was now part of the male privilege, meaning that Paul sold his soul to the dark side basically.
Feminism is amazing for a lot of things but I've seen it done a lot of harm to some people depending on what you read and who you read. But try to deprogramme yourself from that. I'm trying to do that as well.

Yeah, i find the intersection really interesting actually. Even just today I was talking about feeling self conscious of my body and the attention i got as a teenager, in the context of dysphoria, and i was told that all girls hate their bodies and get unwanted attention. It was like yes, but this is different... I wonder how many trans guys are written off as/ feel like they are just victims of a patriarchal society? It's also interesting to compare this to the experience of trans women - i don't know if any trans women are asked if they're transitioning so that they have a better chance of getting a job or w/e ?
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Kylo

Quote from: King Phoenix on February 16, 2016, 09:54:35 AM

They think we feel exactly what they feel.

That's true of a lot of people out there. Not just with this issue but with any issue. You nailed it; he wasn't cold so how could anyone else be? My mother (and most people) are much the same on this subject: "I never needed a sex change so why do you?"

There isn't really a cure for it unless the other person can develop some empathy or capacity for putting themselves in someone else's shoes. Explaining it might help, but... only if they actually listen.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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WolfNightV4X1

Quote from: Just_M on February 14, 2016, 01:24:51 PM
Hello! I'm sort of new here, I'm FT? and I'm still having serious doubts about, well, pretty much everything.
Although I'm rather small, I hate it too when men stare at my chest and say stupid things while I walk on the street no matter how feminine or unfeminine I dress. Do you think that makes me trans? I mean, I don't hate my body as much as you. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. How long ago did you start to feel such dysphoria?
As some of you were talking about the mysogynistic thoughts (or not) and about being misgendered from time to time, what other changes have you experienced in your life since you came out as trans men?

For me I don't hate my body as well, but I do dislike the secondary sex traits and wish they were more male.

And hey, if you're a trans dude being small is the coolest thing ever. It's like a lot of the work is done for you even if not all the way.

I don't really know when I felt dysphoria, but I've always felt a gradual pull away from my sex and the desire to see myself as male.


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